AK Under folder Replaceable?

[Doogledog]

I've recently been bitten by the AK bug and I'm interested in the DDI under folder @ aim surplus.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...s+AK-47+Under+Folder+7.62x39+Rifle&groupid=11

I like the compactness and lighter weight of that type stock and I like the Hogue grip and hand guard. However, if I want to later, is it possible to replace the under folder with either a wood or poly stock?
Forgive me I'm an AK noob for sure.

 

[Sam1911]

Not easily. The rear block or "trunion" inside the receiver is different and will have to be either modified or cut out and replaced, which is pretty much not cost effective.

Probably the best bet would be drilling and tapping the rear of it for one of the bolt-on side-folder stocks. But you're still going to have the very large holes in the sides of the receiver where the under-folder mechanism used to be.

The underfolders are compact and they look cool. That's about it. They aren't much of a shooter's gun.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Years back, I was also enthralled with the underfolding AK's, they're just so iconic and cool, and I just had to have one. I typically do a little research before buying anything, and I was warned by quite a few people that the underfolding AK's looked real cool, but the disadvantages outweighed the advantages, and that I'd probably grow tired of it, and sell it after a while, and they were right. (I was given the same advice about a Draco AK, and they were right about that,as well.)
Though there are folks that absolutely love them, and that's fine, but the undeniable reality is that they aren't as practical, robust, or ergonomic as a fixed stock. They are not very difficult to bend or break, they tend to loosen over time, they're nearly impossible to fix or replace, and the ergos simply suck.
If you just gotta have a folder, the solid steel Romanian side folders are much stronger, and can be removed and replaced with any standard stock. I know a guy that has one (bought it from me, in fact), and he likes to switch out every few months, just for fun and variety.

 

[Telekinesis]

Basically with AKs, once you choose a stock you have to stick with it. It's generally easier to buy a new gun with a different stock than to retrofit a new type of stock on an existing gun.

My recommendation would be to skip the underfolder. They are not comfortable and they tend to loosen up over time causing a vertical wobble. They do look cool though.

I had an underfolder for several years and as much as i tried to love the stock, i just couldnt use it well. I sold it and eventually picked up an Arsenal with a side folder. If you want a folding stock and still want a comfortable to shoot weapon, there's no beating the AK 100 series side folder. Locks up very tight and feels just like a fixed stock while shooting.

 

[bannockburn]

I have an older Hungarian SA85M that I picked up in a trade. Still locks up nice and tight though I rarely put it in the folded position. Paracord wrapped around the strut does help a bit with the cheek weld but still would be a lot more comfortable shooting with a one piece stock. Instead of trying to convert it I would probably be more inclined just to get another AK that was already had a one piece stock.

 

[Doogledog]

Well, you guys have confirmed my fears.
I thought there were a lot of options out there for ARs. Now I'm just trying to figure out how in the world to pick out an AK. Every time I find one that I hear is supposed to be of good quality or reputation, someone else say it's junk. Or, I find one like this DDI version and it doesn't have the right furniture on it. It seems as though either you get a good AK or a bad AK no matter who makes it or where it comes from.

 

[Inebriated]

What is your price range for the rifle?

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

With a lot of work yes.... Practical to replace NO.

The rear of the AK under folder is closed and riveted. As standard stocked AK has an open rear trunion...

 

[Doogledog]

I would probably spend as much as $700 to $800 for a good rifle. I just want one to shoot at the range that's "minute of man" and go boom when I press the trigger every time. I've got several ARs but I'd like an AK I guess just to have one. However, I do believe, you get what you pay for.

 

[akv3g4n]

I'm not a fan of classic but they have the fixed stock model. AKOU gave a great review on the DDI builds too. I'd feel confident getting this one:https://www.classicfirearms.com/ddi-ak-47-stamped-fixed-stock-premium-grade

 

[Inebriated]

You're $150 away from an SLR-107, which has a polymer side-folding stock. I'd recommend that. If you can't quite justify $950, you could also grab a new WASR for around $600, and put a Magpul Zhukov stock on it for another $100, and have a good folding rifle.

 

[snorko]

I like underfolder and side folder AK's and have several of each as well as fixed stocked versions. The SLR-107fr with the poly side folder is a good compromise. However, as Inebriated pointed out, there are many options for folding stocks for AK riflesd with fixed stock rear trunions. Ace, Magpul, Bonesteel, etc.

 

[Doogledog]

I saw the review by AKOU and that's kind of why the ones at AIM interested me. I would certaily pay that much for a rifle I felt confident in but I still don't get how to know if you'll get a good rifle or not. I haven't seen anything negative about DDI yet so that's why I'm leaning that direction. And, I understand there's good and bad everything but, it just seems with AKs, it's either really good or really bad. There doesn't seem to be any in-between.

 

[akv3g4n]

Well, like Inebriated said, you could always go with a WASR too. AKOU has also said that the newer WASRs were a solid choice for a budget rifle and they run them in their classes as loaners if a guy has an issue with the rifle they brought. You'd probably be able to find one locally you could check before you buy too. Lots of good reviews on the new WASRs.

 

[Inebriated]

Well, in the past, AK's needed to really be looked over before buying. There were a lot of kit builds by companies that had no idea what they were doing.

Now, your options are actually rather limited (meaning, you only have a few options if you want to buy a new gun off the shelf). That's good, because most options are fine. You need to look them over for fit/finish, but chances are, if you stick to the most common ones, you'll get a working one... WASR's, N-PAP's, Arsenals, VEPR's, DDI's, and Century's.

WASR's have CHF chrome-lined barrels, good fit/finish now, though still a bit rough, and they are fairly faithful to the AKM design. Good buys at their price point.

N-PAP's have a CHF barrel, not chrome-lined, and again, good fit/finish, but they have to use Yugo furniture and parts. I like them, I have an N-PAP underfolder, but I can't say I particularly care for them over WASR's... The proprietary nature is a turn-off. The new WASR wood is better too, if you like wood. About $600 for both the WASR and N-PAP.

Arsenals, SLR's specifically, have a CHF barrel, it's chrome-lined, its all brand new, and they come with polymer furniture (I really like), and a factory side folder. The fit/finish is excellent, and while they're expensive on the surface, consider what the actual cost to install a Bulgarian side-folder is, and apply that to, say a WASR... you're looking at the same price or more. Looking at $950 or thereabouts.

VEPR's are Russian, CHF chrome-lined barrel, RPK receiver, slightly heavier barrel, can take AK mags with a few minutes of filing, drilling, and tapping. The furniture options are a bit restricted, but the VEPR is an animal of its own, and the factory wood is gorgeous, so it gets a pass. Looking at around $600-$700 for a VEPR, $17 in parts to let it use AK mags.

The DDI, and Century's house builds, use US-made chrome-lined 4140 barrels. It's not as good as what comes on the other rifles mentioned, but it works. If you're not a high volume shooter, you'll never be able to tell or care. I would also like to believe that the Green Mountain barrels are also more accurate than the commie barrels, but I can't say. They're all new guns to the market, and while initial tests look great for DDI, it's still lacking a track record, and you're getting more for your money out of the others, just for the barrel quality.

I honestly don't think you can go wrong in which rifle you choose from a functionality standpoint. Canted parts are par for the course for any AK, Arsenals included, but that is cosmetic. So is fit/finish. But functionally, they will be fine.

So for you to decide what to spend on, look at features. Do you want wood, do you want a side-folder, an underfolder, do you want a side rail for optics, stuff like that. And then you can make a better decision.

 

[Doogledog]

Thank you Inebriated. I appreciate your input.
I'll keep looking until I can find what I think I'd rather have. I do like the under folding stock variants but, if it can't be changed I'll pass on them. I can see where they may not be very comfortable to shoot. I don't really care if it's wood or poly. The poly would actually be fine and probably what I would pick over wood given the choice. Until I decide, there'll be a lot more research.

 

[MechAg94]

ACE Stocks sells AK stocks as well as a number of adaptors.

I can't see your link or ACE's web site where I am so I don't know if ACE covers that one. I was able to use their stock on a Vepr and an NPAP. The Vepr was already converted from the original wood stock. I needed an adapter for the NPAP. It might be worth a look.

I do agree there are several AK options that ought to be good choices.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I'll also recommend the newer WASR's. I actually had a couple older ones that were solid,straight,accurate rifles, but these latest one's are quite nice, and that opinion is very commonly held. They're coming in with brand new chome lined,hammer forged Romanian barrels, a no-slip G2 trigger, and the new wood stocks are perfect for a nice refinish job. The old stocks were grubby, rough,laminated (basically thick plywood), but the new ones are a solid hard-wood that are unfinished, so just a few seconds with some fine sandpaper and a good wipe-down, and they're ready to refinish. It's fun,easy and inexpensive.
And the rifles have none of the deficiencies that some of the older ones had, and that uninformed internet commandos have been using to condemn WASR's ever since. They're tight, well built, accurate and reliable (what else do they really need to be?), and the last one I got was $499 delivered, from Selway Armory (maybe a year+ ago?). They're often cheaper from a retailer than they are on the used market.

 

[wojownik]

I'll keep looking until I can find what I think I'd rather have. I do like the under folding stock variants but, if it can't be changed I'll pass on them. I can see where they may not be very comfortable to shoot. I don't really care if it's wood or poly. The poly would actually be fine and probably what I would pick over wood given the choice. Until I decide, there'll be a lot more research.

As others have said, the underfolders are extremely cool to look at, and I've always wanted one (again for looks), but for actual range use, they are less than optimal - uncomfortable, cheek weld in an awkward place.

I have wire folders on a couple of AKs (one Romanian and the other East German wire stock - not much difference between the two). They are marginally better than the underfolder, but again the cheek weld is awkward, but you can make it more comfortable with paracord or rubber tubing.

Here are three of mine - the top is still my favorite (Romak-I with Polish furniture). Blow that is a Romy G build. The Romanian forward grip "dong" is not the most aesthetically pleasing, but wow does it make a difference when used in conjunction with the wire stock.



Then there is the triangle stock - Better yet, but still some tradeoffs. The real deal requires modification of the receiver (as with the underfolder, but not as much). There is another version that has an addition that screws into the receiver tang. So no receiver drilling, but it has that other piece that just does not seem right. I've been interested why no-one has come out with a good fixed triangle lookalike, made from metal or a durable polymer.

IMHO, the Russians hit on the best solution for them with the modern folding polymer stock - gives the compactness for storage/travel, but the benefits of a fixed stock when fold out. And that would be the SLR-107. as was mentioned by Inebriated.

 

[bannockburn]

This is my FEG SA85M. I doubled wrapped the paracord for slightly added comfort and for the most part it's fine for a short range session. Definitely like the compactness of it with the stock folded; easy to slip it, some ammo, and a few mags into a small carbine size case.

 

[briansmithwins]

The underfolders look cool but suck if you actually shoot the rifle.

As mentioned, you can convert between the different stock types (underfolder, fixed stamped, left side folding) but it's never going to be practical to do so. Much cheaper to just buy what you want to start with.

My personal favorite is the AK-100 type left side folder, you get compact storage with the stock folded. With the stock open the stock lock wedges the stock into place solidly.

The downside is that you can't leave optics on the side rail and fold the stock.

BSW

 

[kimberkid]

I've owned quite a few AK's over the last 30 some odd years, my keepers have turned out to be some that I've built from Hungarian AMD-65 kits ... ghost guns I believe is the current term for them and while the Arsenal AK's are high quality, a lot of their cost is in the name. The Zastava PAP AK's are built like tanks with great fit and finish ... I have pistol model I SBR'd (top) and it's one of my favorites. My other favorite is my Valmet tube folder (bottom) but it's not in your price range ...



Here's a link to all the Zastava AK's listed on GunBroker ... enjoy!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/BI.aspx?Keywords=PAP

 

[Inebriated]

Arsenal AK's are high quality, a lot of their cost is in the name

No, it really is not.

 

[kimberkid]

No, it really is not.

$1,200 for an AK underfolder ... and you aren't paying for the name? Almost every other U/F AK is about 1/2 that ... but that's my opinion.

 

[Inebriated]

$1,200 for an AK underfolder ... and you aren't paying for the name? Almost every other U/F AK is about 1/2 that ... but that's my opinion.

How many of those underfolders at half the price are new production, foreign milled receivers, AND have a CHF chrome-lined barrel? Not one.

The milled Yugo underfolders that were available recently were going for $850-$900, they were parts kits assembled on US receivers.

And we can look at any other of their rifles.

The SGL's were running $850-$900 at the end before import was banned. Compare a professionally-converted Saiga, and the price is the same, if not better considering Saiga prices themselves were up.

Same story on the SLR's. Compare an SLR, a brand new rifle, to a WASR, but add a AK-100 side-folding stock to it. You're looking at $270-$300 for the stock assembly alone, plus the daunting task of having it installed. That alone makes up for the majority of the price difference, and then consider the fact that the SLR is a new production rifle.

Arsenals are not overpriced to any considerable degree. They come with features that some don't need or want. Many people don't really need or care about a brand new foreign milled receiver, but if you want to compare value, that receiver is certainly more valuable than the US-made one.