Alaska...or Africa?

[Harley Quinn]

H&Hhunter
One I have never owned, but have read a lot about
That would be a first choice for only one rifle, to go to Africa...

If you reload not much else needed, to be honest...

 

[H&Hhunter]

Agreed 100% the .375 H&H is the most useful versatile round on the planet. For either Africa or North America.

It has a very flat trajectory with 270 gr bullets, it does minimal meat damage on light game and it has no issues with the heaviest game on earth. You never have to qualify a the .375H&H and you never have to make excuses for it. It simply does everything very well.

On the hunt pictured I had spent the first week up in the Kwa Zulu Natal hunting in thick jungle and jesse bush with elephants and buff and even the occasional rhino in the area and then drove 13 hours up to the Boo Karoo to hunt open country for light game. there are very few rifles that have that kind of versatility. A rifle in which you feel comfortable in thick bush/ elephant country and then transition to Wyoming style long range plains hunting with the same rifle.

No matter the hunt a .375H&H is never a bad choice maybe not the best choice but never a bad one.

 

[Cob]

The best Alaskan hunt (the best bang for the buck), is the Mulchatna caribou herd in August or September. It's near a 100% success rate and no guide is required. These are the biggest caribou on the planet, far larger than you'll see elsewhere in Alaska

That's also a nice caribou in the picture.. If you were planning a hunt for the Mulchatna herd, any advice on how to approach it as a non-resident?

 

[KodiakBeer]

If you were planning a hunt for the Mulchatna herd, any advice on how to approach it as a non-resident?

September is probably the best month to hunt. Temps will generally be in the mid 30's to low 40's at night and 50ish during the day. It will rain. You can count on that.

Fly to Anchorage and buy your license and tags. You can google up charter flights from Anchorage, but really you're better off renting a car and driving down to Soldotna or Kenai and flying from there. You're 150 miles closer to the Mulchatna and can fly deeper into the zone looking for herds.

When you talk to your charter, make it damned clear that you want to be put onto the herd and not just dropped off at some convenient lake. You're chartering by the hour and by the size of plane not by the person. Figure about $1500 to $2000 to be flown in and picked up, depending on the size of plane. If you go with one buddy, you could go in a 206. If you go with 2 or more you'll need a Beaver which costs more, but then there's more of you to split the cost.

With fuel prices going up, it may cost more than in years past...

Weight is EVERYTHING. If the charter has to make two trips to get you and your meat back out, your cost has just doubled. Pack smart. Take all the food and water you want because you'll eat it and not have to fly it back out. For everything else you'll need to be a minimalist.

It's common, almost expected, that you won't fly out on the day you're planning. Weather will shut down single engine planes on a regular basis and people are going to be taken out in the order they were dropped off and not by when scheduled. So, plan accordingly. Leave some days at each end of the hunt and just go with the flow.

One outfit I've flown with and can recommend is Talon Air out of Soldotna. But google around Soldotna, Kenai, Nikiski and compare prices.

You'll love it! With any luck you'll see thousands of caribou. They tend to travel by type this early in the year and in most areas you can see them miles away. You'll see herds of cows and calves. You'll see herds of young bulls. And you'll see herds of old white-necked bulls. Don't waste energy trying to move in on anything but the old white necks.

Every one of the tens of thousands of little lakes you might be dropped off on are full of grayling, char and trout so bring a fishing rod to kill some time after you've got your meat back in camp. Or, bring a shotgun and hunt ptarmigan.

When it's over, the charter guys can direct you to some place where you can box and freeze your meat for transport.

 

[millertyme]

Alaska. Period. No desire to go to Africa for any reason whatsoever.

 

[Ironclad]

I would definitely pick Alaska for several reasons.

First off not being able to bring home meat and put it in the freezer defeats a lot of the purpose of hunting for me. I mean the meat isn't everything, but I'm not one to kill something just to hang its head on the wall. It just doesn't seem quite right to me. Just my opinion though.

Second, having to have a guide would pretty well ruin what was left of the pleasure of the hunt for me. For me, hunting is about independence, self reliance, and personal skill. I'd rather spend a week hunting by myself or with a good buddy and not even see a game animal than limit out while having my hand held by a guide.

Third, with the state the world is in right now, I think it pays to stay safely within the good ol' US of A. Maybe a quick trip to Canada or something but for the most part I don't see the African, Middle Eastern area to be particularly safe right now.

 

[Guns and more]

Why not spend your dollars in the U.S.?

 

[H&Hhunter]

Third, with the state the world is in right now, I think it pays to stay safely within the good ol' US of A. Maybe a quick trip to Canada or something but for the most part I don't see the African, Middle Eastern area to be particularly safe right now.

Isn't now and it never has been. But if you are comparing North Africa and the East to the hunting Areas of Southern Africa you do realize that is about the same as comparing Southern Argentina to Texas, right? From both a distance and a geopolitical standpoint.

 

[Ole Humpback]

Ironclad,

Care to point out a nation in Southern Africa where we are currently having issues with them?

The Kalahari Desert is in Namibia, a nation founded with a strong East German influence and there infrastructure & culture reflect it from what I've read. Other nations down there have strong English influences in both society & infrastructure.

Before I go saying Africa's a unstable/unsafe place, I'd make two very clear points: 1.) Africa is a continent with multiple nations of various origins on it & 2.) Do some fact finding into who it is we are having issues with and where they are located.

One of the worst things that could happen to the Southern African nations is that American & European hunters stop coming to hunt. Thats how they fund a significant portion of there conservation departments and support the retail sector of there economies. Tourist dollars from someone who just dropped $15k on a hunt are chump change to us and go a long way for most people down there.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I think everyone "gets" that Africa is a large and varied continent. Key West and Barrow are both in North America and everyone "gets" that these geographic locales are very different.

But, Ironclad makes a solid point about guided vs non-guided hunts which to many would be the key difference. I'd love to hunt Africa, but it's not really possible unless you hire some guy to follow around who dictates all your actions. When you have a guide you're not really hunting; he's hunting and you're shooting. It's not the same thing.

Personally, I'd get more satisfaction shooting a spike moose that I hunted, stalked, killed and butchered on my own, than being led to a trophy animal by a hired guide.

Hunting in my experience - and by hunting I mean simply being out on the land - is a state of mind. All of ones faculties are brought to bear in an effort to become fully incorporated into the landscape. It is more than listening for animals or watching for hoof prints or a shift in the weather. It is more than an analysis of what one senses. To hunt means to have the land around you like clothing. To engage in a wordless dialogue with it. One so absorbing that you cease to talk with your human companions. It means to release yourself from rational images of what something “means” and to be concerned only that it “is.” And then to recognize that things exist only insofar as they can be related to other things. These relationships - fresh drops of moisture on top of rocks at a river crossing and a raven’s distant voice - become patterns. The patterns are always in motion. Suddenly the pattern - which includes physical hunger, a memory of your family, and memories of the valley you are walking through, these particular plants and smells - takes in the caribou. There is a caribou standing right in front of you. The release of the arrow or bullet is like a word spoken out loud. It occurs at the periphery of your concentration.
The mind we know in dreaming, a non-rational, non-linear comprehension of events in which slips in time and space are normal, is, I believe, the conscious working mind of an aboriginal hunter. It is a frame of mind that redefines patience, endurance, and expectations.

Barry Lopez

 

[tazbigdog]

I would love to do Africa, but the political climate over there, as well as issues (shots, papers, etc.), my choice would be Alaska. Find a reputable guide up there and go for it!
Good luck! Jeff

 

[Ironclad]

Care to point out a nation in Southern Africa where we are currently having issues with them?

The US doesn't necessarily have any foreign policy issues with them, but South Africa is rated as the second most dangerous country in the world here:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/159175/top_5_most_dangerous_countries_in_the_pg2.html?cat=9

True, there are a lot of dangerous places in the US too. I also try to stay away from them. A lot of people on this forum seem to feel naked without their CCW. Is that allowed over in the African countries? Seems like its hard enough to get your hunting rifle there. I really have no idea, but if America is scary enough to need to carry a pistol, then I'd say pretty much anyplace in Africa is too.

Even if nothing bad happens in the country you are in, unrest in other parts of the world can get you stuck there. My girlfriend's mother was on a mission trip in South America during 9-11. Her flight was delayed a week or so and she was stuck there without any way of communicating with her family.

I'm not telling anyone what they should think. Everyone should do whatever they think is best. But as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather that me and the people who I care about stay away from there.

That being said, that wasn't even my main reason for choosing Alaska over Africa. Notice it was third place on my list. The main reason is that an African hunt would remove my main two reasons for hunting. I'd get a lot more pleasure from saying "enjoying this roast? I hunted it, killed it, and butchered it myself" than "do you like my wall decoration? My guide found it and I killed it and my gunbearer skinned it".

 

[KodiakBeer]

My guide found it and I killed it and my gunbearer skinned it".

I attributed that point to the wrong member in post 85 (now corrected). That has to be the number one difference between hunting Alaska and hunting Africa. If I had money to burn (which I don't), I'd still like to hunt Africa just to experience it. But, it would be a lot less satisfying from a hunting standpoint.

The #2 reason would be money. 10K split between 3 people would give you a very good hunt in Alaska. Figure $500 to $700 each for a round-trip to Anchorage. 1k each to split a charter flight into remote country. License and tags. Rental car and hotels at each end of the hunt, food, meals, and then excess baggage (meat) flying home.

3K each would cover it pretty well, and then depending on how many animals you take, you might have 400 to 800 pounds of meat when you got home again which covers a lot of your expenses.

 

[Cob]

My girlfriend's mother was on a mission trip in South America during 9-11. Her flight was delayed a week or so and she was stuck there without any way of communicating with her family.

my Boss was moose hunting in Alaska with his Dad, they were flew in and dropped off somewhere when 9/11 occurred. Even the planes used for wilderness transportation were grounded, and they spent two extra days, which worked out to his advantage, because he killed a bull moose not far from camp on the next to last day he was there. but he informed me later that he thought the pilot had actually forgotten about them, before learning of 9/11. I think bad situations could occur regardless of location, whether in US or Africa.

 

[H&Hhunter]

True, there are a lot of dangerous places in the US too. I also try to stay away from them.

IC, have you ever spent a Friday night in downtown Anchorage?

My girlfriend's mother was on a mission trip in South America during 9-11.

I was stuck on the Agashakshak river in Northern AK for the week with no communications during 9-11.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Even the planes used for wilderness transportation were grounded, and they spent two extra days,

That is absolutely routine, 9/11 or not. Anyone hunting Alaska should not expect to be picked up on schedule. Bad weather shuts down small planes. Sometimes it's absolutely clear where you are, but the mountain passes are shut down. Bring your fishing rod, shotgun (for ptarmigan and grouse) or a good book. And some bourbon...

As often as not, your scheduled pick-up will be delayed. The pilot (and anyone within hearing distance) will laugh at you if you complain about it. He isn't going to risk his life (or yours) to make a schedule.

They'll tell you this when you charter out.

 

[Ironclad]

IC, have you ever spent a Friday night in downtown Anchorage?

Nope. Never spent a Friday night downtown anywhere. Just ain't my style

I think bad situations could occur regardless of location, whether in US or Africa.

True. My grandpa had a buddy in college whose bush pilot crashed and died on the way out, and kept no log books. Grandpa's friend ended up having to float out in an abandoned canoe.

But if I could choose a place to be stranded, it would be in my own country.

I realize that there's always going to be risks, and you just have to weigh the possible pleasure against the possible risks. Once again, I just don't think that I would get enough enjoyment out of a guided safari hunt to justify the risks, or the cost for that matter. If you all like it and think its worth it, you are more than welcome to my share.

 

[DM~]

A bush plane two days late, and they were sweating??? lol

I have no idea how many times i was picked up more than two days late in Alaska. Sometimes they were a week or even more late... I was stuck on the upper Canning river in the Brooks an extra week, because the pilot decided to help someone else with more money!

DM

 

[Cob]

I was stuck on the Agashakshak river in Northern AK for the week with no communications during 9-11

wonder if you were on the same trip... remember any Ellis's by chance? I hate to use his name here, but he said they used a float plane to access water, a river that escapes my memory, (but had a cool sound to it), where they then got on some type of raft and went up river to area they were hunting. It was a wilderness camp, and they were hunting on their own. he said packing out the moose took some work, and they had to get the quarters, cape, etc... a little ways back to the raft. It's been a while since I've heard the story, but the way he described the experience was enought to make me choose Alaska as a destination that i want to visit sometime.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Nope,

I flew myself in and was hunting Caribou unguided. You can't land a float plane anywhere on the Aggie it's to shallow.

 

[TC8500]

I Highly Recommend Africa

I have hunted in South Africa with our son twice, both times we did a ten day hunt for Plains game. Hunting in Africa is different, for example the trophy fee is not paid until you take the animal or you wound the animal and the trackers cannot find it. The daily rate is for room and board, laundry,drinks, use of trackers/skinners etc.

The largest animals taken were Kudu, followed by Zebra and Wildebeest. I took a 30-06 and a .338 and our son took a 30-06 and a .375 and actually the 30-06 with a 180 grain Nosler Partition works well for most plains game.

We hunted with Johnny Vivier Safaris and it was nothing but first class and I would highly recommend him. Type in Johnny Vivier Safaris into Google and it will take you to the website and you can get additional information.

I plan on going back to Africa once our grandson is a little older. I hope these comments will aid in your decision as to Alaska or Africa.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

At least in Alaska nonresidents can hunt some species without hiring a guide, so it's a lot more cost effective. Fly into Anchorage in August or September then charter a plane out to hunt the Mulchatna caribou herd. There's about a 98% success rate on that hunt and no guide required. Caribou in the Mulchatna herd are the largest in the world, just a tad smaller than an elk.
While hunting caribou, you can also take wolves, black bear or moose in the same area without a guide, provided you buy the tags of course.

But, I'd target the caribou since they are pretty much a sure thing. Hunt the other stuff after you fill your caribou tags.

You might want to update your info on the Mulchatna herd. I hear it's all most non-existent. When I last hunted it in the 90's there were bou everywhere, now you'd be luckly to see one.
If I was to hunt out there again I would use a 180 on wheels. Lakes big and deep enough for floats attract crowds.

 

[Cob]

(from previous post above) My Boss was moose hunting on the west of Denali National Park, on the Onoko (?) River in AK when he got the moose... They had to be 48" inches wide there from antler tip to tip, and his was only 46 1/2 inches wide.
He had to to report to the local magistrate and got into a bit of trouble, paid a fine, and was given the choice of keeping either the horns or the meat..

still sounded like an awesome hunt though.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Innoko river probably. Unless this was a real long time ago it would have been 50 inch's, not 48. Best not to guess width if it's close. Depending on unit 3 or 4 brow tines on one side is legal regardless of width.

I have never been to Innoko but hear it's got lots of moose but you won't be alone. Again, easy float plane access draws crowds.

 

[Cob]

The trip was in Sep. 2001... He was dropped off on the river with a float plane, then 3 or 4 people got into 2 small rafts with 3 hp outboard motors, where they continued up river to drop camp... I beleive you spelled it correctly, though i have only heard it pronounced, never saw it written.