Alaska wild, need rifle

[jbech123]

I think in Montana, 1 out of every 4 people is attacked by a bear.

While one should always go in the woods adequately armed in case things go south, your statement is one of the most ridiculous thing I've seen posted on this board, possibly even the whole internet.
So there are ~1million people residing in Montana, so you're saying 250,000 will be attacked by a bear? Plus over a million people visit glacier national park every year, so do another 250,000 of them get attacked to?

 

[Wheeler44]

1million people residing in Montana, so you're saying 250,000 will be attacked by a bear? Plus over a million people visit glacier national park every year, so do another 250,000 of them get attacked to?

Don't forget all of the folks drivin' through on their way to Sturgis ND

 

[nrgetik]

90% of statistics are made up on the spot, didn't you know that??????

 

[JonB]

Don't forget all of the folks drivin' through on their way to Sturgis ND

Sturgis is in SD. I live on the other end of the state from Sturgis.

 

[oregonhunter]

If you are set on a bolt action rifle that you can also use after your trip. Go with the 30-06 and load up some 200 or 220 grainers for the trip. Midway usa also sells a few 200 and 220 grain factory loads.

 

[M'bogo]

File this under just something to think about: If you opt for a rifle it would not be a bad idea to get one that has iron sights also. If you fall or drop the rifle and render the scope unusable it will be a comfort know the rifle wears iron sights already sighted in before you left on the trip.

M'bogo

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Either one would work. But as mentioned, a lever in .45-70 might even be better. I personally don't care for plastic stocks, so I'd go with the Stevens over the Marlin if I HAD to make that choice, because aftermarket wood stocks are more readily available for the Savage.

 

[Float Pilot]

I have lived here in Alaska since the late 1950s.
I have NEVER been chased or attacked by bears. Unless I cornered them, which I only did when I was a cop to get them out of somebodies basement or yard.
Wolves are only seen at long range in the wild.
And while city moose stomp the heck out of somebody every couple years up in Los Anchorage, real country moose tend to be rather shy or down-right invisible at times.

During my 20 years of Law Dawging up here, (interupped by stints of military duty) I had to take the statements from many a City Boy who shot the heck out of the first thing he saw moving and then later had to make up a great story to justify being reckless.

While it could happen, I am much more worried about the two legged animals I see out in the woods these days, than the wild critters.

If the voices are telling you that you need a new rifle, as they tell me every month or so, then get a 30-06 for your first one.

The 30-06 and the 338 Win Mag are the two most popular selling cartridges here in Alaska. You can get ammo anywhere and it has enough power for real hunting or defense.

If you are never going hunting, just hiking,, get a $200-$250 , used, short barreled, Remington M-870 shotgun and some good Brenneke slugs.
You can always carry extra bird shot shells for survival eating as well. Cracker shells for chasing bears away from camp and flare shells so the C.A.P. can find you if you get hurt out there.
Plus it comes in right handy, with a load of buckshot, for encounters around the homestead.

xx

 

[JImbothefiveth]

First of all, know how to avoid bears. They are tough, and you might not stop them even with a magnum rifle.

Second, know where to aim. I've heard they have a lump of fat on the top of their head, and if you hit that, it won't do anything. I'm not sure though.

Third, practice shooting a lot. I'd imagine shooting a charging bear under stress requires pretty good aim.

Fourth, make sure your handgun is powerful enough, in case you can't get to your rifle for whatever reason. I think a .44 magnum with hardcast loads is the generally reccomended minimum.

 

[Float Pilot]

I've heard they have a lump of fat on the top of their head,

Actually their skull is very thick and tough like nylon plank. I had to investigate a guy who shot one at 7 feet (yeah seven, I had to measure it) with a long barreled 12 gauge using 00 Buck. The bear ran back into his car-port after being chased from the next road over. The bear had his head down and was running in fear without looking ahead. And there was the shooter in his t-shirt and boxer shorts, picking up the trash from the bears earlier adventures.

When I got there, the plastic wad was stuck into the top of the bears head. He eventually died after I put a 357 mag metal pierce round into his eye socket.
When the bear was skinned out to make the moose and goose people happy, I found all of the buck-shot still stuck into the bears skull bone. None of it penetrated more than half way through the bone. The entire load was all stuffed together because of the short range.

I have also seen skulls where rifle rounds have glanced off due to the angle of impact. It still makes a big groove down the skull and really ticks off the bear.
Bears have a layer of fat and LOTS of fur all over. Many a bad shot goes through fat or fur without hitting anything major. Think of Rosie O'Donnel wearing a couple big puffy down jackets.

 

[woof]

Any scope on any gun you foresee using to defend against an attacking bear is a bad idea. If you "really" are attacked by a bear you might be shooting from the hip let alone acquiring a target in a scope. If I were going hiking in Alaska I think I'd just take my single six with .22 mag cylinder and plenty of ammo. If I were told there was a grizzly problem then I'd want that .450 Marlin, or not hike there. On second thought, the latter.

PS - I like the shotgun idea. I never thought about how many different rounds there are, particularly flare rounds. How well do they work?

 

[ShadyScott999]

870 with slugs or 45-70 guide gun

 

[jmr40]

If I were going to Alaska I would buy a Stainless Ruger Hawkeye in 35 Whelen or 30-06. Probably '06. I would have it drilled and tapped for iron sights and buy some quality bullets. Might even consider having the barrel shortened to 20" You could have all of this done for a lot less than a quality scope.

I would practice until I could make it shoot just as fast as a lever. People who know how to shoot bolt rifles will amaze you at how fast they can make them work.

I realize I have just described the new Ruger 300 RCM rifle, but I do not know how long that round is going to be around, but the 30-06 will be here for my great-grandchildren.

 

[FoMoGo]

Of the 2 rifles you ask about, I would suggest the Stevens.
I am a HUGE Savage fan. Get it in .30-06 or .300 Win Mag.
Or a Mossberg 500 with Brenneke slugs.


Jim

 

[RoboDuck]

Anything chambered in 338 win. mag.

 

[tango2echo]

Have somebody in your party bring a big bore like the .45-70 or .30-06 mentioned above, someone else bring a .410-.45LC for keeping the stew pot full. All of you go to the feed/tack store and buy #2 copper Cow Bells. You'll be fine. That time of year the bears will be in the valleys eating fish/grass/berrys/grubs trying to get fat.

T2E

 

[offthepaper]

Sounds like 2 young guys wanting to do this on a budget. If that is indeed the case, than I would add my vote for a Mosin M38 or M44. Cheap rifle, cheap ammo for practice, short handy carbine that was made to take abuse. I think a scoped rifle would be almost useless in the scenario of a rushing bear. By the time you had a sight on him, he'd be on you. Buy the Mosins (2) and a tin or two of ammo and practice. Make sure to clean the chamber of any cosmo/gunk that could cause sticky bolt, and you will have a handy, very powerful, almost unbreakable hiking carbine that will drop anything you run into.
Oh, and if you should miss, don't worry. The sound and fireball should scare them off.

 

[jduvall89]

Thanks everyone for the much need and appreciated info and comments. I have taken everything said into consideration, and still looking for more.

Thanks Alaskanativeson, I will pm you some questions when they pop up.

So what is a good, cheap 30-06 or 45-70?

I think I am looking for a rifle with iron sights as well, and scoped. Could I scope the 45-70? Or is this a no no?

Woof, I don't intend on shooting anything, unless, we are in danger, we are starving, and out of our own food.

The Deer Hunter, I have thought about a shotgun, but I also want to have this rifle, for range shooting, and maybe hunting at some point.

Oregon Hunter, I was intending on using the gun for hobbies after the trip. Which is why I have kind of excluded a shotgun.

I have never fired a lever action rifle. Is it hard to cock,(sorry for lack of term), the lever for the next round?

Float Pilot, thanks for the great advice.We are not intending on going out to hunt and kill, only to relax, explore, and do something adventurous. But I am wanting a rifle of sort to protect and for hobby after, maybe hunting later on. That shotgun idea sounds real good and helpful, but won't do me much good. This will be my first rifle, and want to keep interest and hobby with the gun afterwards. WOuld the 30-06 or lever action do me better? Also are there any laws, regulations against going out in the wild and living for awhile? I do not think there would be a problem, but maybe some areas are off limits? And hopefully we don't run into any other people
Are the Stevns and Savage models, different or the same?

THanks for all the input, appreciated. Sorry for the lack of knowledge.

I will research before the trip to find bear country and try and avoid it.

 

[ECVMatt]

Here's a couple of thoughts...

When I was in AK I had the time of my life. I never once felt threatened, but I did realize that I was responsible for taking care of myself. We were way out in the bush, several hours by float plane.

I carried a .338-06 for hunting and loved it. However it was not that great for hiking around after we got our moose. The barrel seemed to always get in the way and it was hard to carry in the hand. My .338-06 was chambered in a Remington 700, similar to the Stevens 200 in size and function. I really wished I had brought my Marlin 1895 .45-70 Guide Gun for rafting and hiking after the hunt. It is one of the easiest packing, powerful rifles I own. Working a lever action is very fast and easy.

Here is a good vid of the Marlin in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XCB4A911SM

Marlin leveractions are extremely reliable and easy to clean.

The Steven's 200 is a light rifle. It will have pretty severe recoil with the .30-06 and heavy loads. It might be hard for you to learn to shoot this well.

Having said that the .45-70 does kick or recoil was a good amount of force. I am not sure it would be the best gun for a beginner. However if you start out with the right loads you could easily learn to shoot it well.

I would not add a scope for this trip. You can always add one when you get home for hunting and target shooting.

I would add XS ghost rings sights. They are very simple and very strong. You would be surprised how accurate you can shoot with a good set of iron/rifle sights.

You might also look at a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. This is another good caliber that would have less recoil than the .45-70.

Good luck and have fun.

Matt

Good luck,

matt

 

[SHvar]

There are alot of suitable rounds and rifles to choose from.
As far as wildlife goes, there has never been a case of healthy normal wild wolves attacking a human in North Americas history. There was one case in Canada where the local wolves were drawn for months by improper trash disposal at a mine, and mine workers feeding them, to this day no one knows for sure which killed the guy, a bear or wolf, but he was videotaped harassing wolves with a stick by a coworker the day before.
I know a guy who races sled dogs in Alaska every year, he lives there 4 months or more out of the year, for the past 28 years. This guy has never had an encounter with bears that worried him, or wolves, but he was running the dogs on a compacted trail when he was chased and trampled almost to death by a female moose protecting a baby that was in the edge of the woods. Moose are drawn to compacted trails in deeper snow, luckily his dogs only ran over the hill and were anchored, he recovered after a few months of treatment with some nasty permanent scars.
Personally for self defense a good handgun to protect you up close, or a 12 gauge with slugs. If it will happen it will be close, and happen fast.
Think more in terms of what else you may use the rifle for in Alaska, if hunting, then choose what you want to hunt with that rifle first.
Good luck.

 

[ECVMatt]

As for wolves, you might want to read this...

delete,,,

This thread is not about wolf attacks.

 

[jduvall89]

ECVMatt, thanks for the advice. I like that Marlin 1895, but you stated it does have quite the recoil.

I am a beginner to this, and would probably like to, and feel most comfortable with something that does not have a lot of recoil, but has power and punch. Is this easy to get with an affordable gun? Im really starting to lean towards this leveraction. Those sights sound good, I will check them out too.

I also would like the gun to be fairly light, so it won't be a nuisance to carry.

Thanks guys

 

[paintballdude902]

out of the two id go for the xl7 in .30-06 with some 200-220gr loads

but id rather have a .45-70 or .444 marlin lever

a .270 or .30-06 is the smallest id take

all the .45-70s ive fired had about the same kick as a .30-06 the ported version is pretty tame and i find it fun to shoot

and if you want a peep or ghost ring id look in to skinner sights they are made by a tim skinner and he does awsome work and has great prices

 

[Float Pilot]

There is nothing wrong with the Stevens rifles for an inexpensive entry level rifle.
The Savage 110s can be had used or new for a very good price as well. Now is a good time to buy since everyone is thinking about selling / pawning something or another to pay their taxes. Plus lots of folks are selling off their extra bolt action rifles to buy semi-autos. The Savage rifles are pretty darn accurate for their cost. For the 30-06 take bullets of 180 grains or more on your trip.


Check into the ownership / control of the area you are heading into. The Fed Park Service guys get their skivvies up their cracks about all sorts of things. Including some bizzarre firearms laws that only a lefty could love...The State of Alaska folks are much more reasonable. Plus watch out for native owned or controlled land. Some of those guys get a big head when they get a chance. Some of those guys get fired up and start @#%* with armed cops, so there is no reason to think they would be any nicer to a couple city guys out for a hike.
Also watch out for mining claims. I have stumbled into more than one full of people waiting for the end of the world. Usually you will hear the bajo music from Deliverance playing in the back of your mind when you run into those gents.

 

[jduvall89]

what about the Marlin 336? Seems to be the smaller version of te 45-70, maybe less recoil?

Or is this 30-30 too small?