Alaska wild, need rifle
- Thread starter jduvall89
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ECVMatt
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Here's some more info on the Marlin 336's and 1894's
The 336:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html
The 1894:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/board,32.0.html
Both of these rifles are great.
This is a great form to learn about Marlins if that is what you end up picking.
I carried a 1894 over the Sierras a few years ago and it worked great. It was not even notice. I bout a mount that attached it to a pack frame from Cabelas. It held the rife securely and was quick to take off as well.
The .30-30 and the .44 are basically even to 100 yards. Past that the .30-30 takes over and is a better round for the next 100 yards.
I tend to shoot my .44 more often. It is more fun for me to plink with.
Good Luck.
Matt
The 336:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html
The 1894:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/board,32.0.html
Both of these rifles are great.
This is a great form to learn about Marlins if that is what you end up picking.
I carried a 1894 over the Sierras a few years ago and it worked great. It was not even notice. I bout a mount that attached it to a pack frame from Cabelas. It held the rife securely and was quick to take off as well.
The .30-30 and the .44 are basically even to 100 yards. Past that the .30-30 takes over and is a better round for the next 100 yards.
I tend to shoot my .44 more often. It is more fun for me to plink with.
Good Luck.
Matt
logjam
Member
I'd opt for a Marlin in 450 Marlin. Or a model 95 Marlin in 45/70. You might try an old Winchester 94 in 375 Winchester, if you can find one. No one bought them when they were for sale, but now they are in demand.
An old Savage 99 in 358 Win is a good gun, and of course a Win Mod 71 in 348 Win is fine too, but you can spend one arm and one leg for one today.
I have an old Mannlicher Schoenaur in 3006, which would be a good carry and knock around gun. I bought mine in a pawn shop for $450 not long ago.
Truthfully, if you want an inexpensive gun you might try any 30'06. Not a sexy round, but you could do a bear in with one. Zillions of bear have been bagged with an 'o6.
I think my first choice, if I had one; I'd go for a Marlin 95 in 450 Marlin. I understand it's good for the Alaskan environment. You'll like the handiness of the rifle.
An old Savage 99 in 358 Win is a good gun, and of course a Win Mod 71 in 348 Win is fine too, but you can spend one arm and one leg for one today.
I have an old Mannlicher Schoenaur in 3006, which would be a good carry and knock around gun. I bought mine in a pawn shop for $450 not long ago.
Truthfully, if you want an inexpensive gun you might try any 30'06. Not a sexy round, but you could do a bear in with one. Zillions of bear have been bagged with an 'o6.
I think my first choice, if I had one; I'd go for a Marlin 95 in 450 Marlin. I understand it's good for the Alaskan environment. You'll like the handiness of the rifle.
Kilgor - all Puma M-92 Lever Action Rifles - are 1-30 twist (which is a little better, but not good enough for heavy loads), so he may as well buy a Marlin.
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/specs/specs_leveraction.html
Where can one buy a Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum? I've looked hard and can't find one with a decent price anywhere.
However I see that Puma is making M-92 Carbines in two new chamberings.
In addition to the standard calibers, Puma takes a 19th Century tradition into the 21st Century with super-magnum chamberings! For brush hunting and wilderness packing, Puma 92 carbines in .454 and .480 calibers feature optional magazine-tube loading and a recoil absorbing rubber butt pad.
Round barrel 16 and 20 inch barrel carbines have crescent buttplates, except .454 and .480 calibers which come with cushioned, shotgun-style recoil pads.
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/puma_carbines.html
Good luck finding one!
BTW, here's a great picture"
Cabot Benton, of Good Ole Boys TV scores on safari, taking this wildebeast with a Puma carbine in .480 Ruger
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/specs/specs_leveraction.html
Where can one buy a Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum? I've looked hard and can't find one with a decent price anywhere.
However I see that Puma is making M-92 Carbines in two new chamberings.
In addition to the standard calibers, Puma takes a 19th Century tradition into the 21st Century with super-magnum chamberings! For brush hunting and wilderness packing, Puma 92 carbines in .454 and .480 calibers feature optional magazine-tube loading and a recoil absorbing rubber butt pad.
Round barrel 16 and 20 inch barrel carbines have crescent buttplates, except .454 and .480 calibers which come with cushioned, shotgun-style recoil pads.
http://www.legacysports.com/products/puma/puma_carbines.html
Good luck finding one!
BTW, here's a great picture"
Cabot Benton, of Good Ole Boys TV scores on safari, taking this wildebeast with a Puma carbine in .480 Ruger
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earlthegoat2
Member
I like LeverGuns in 45/70 or 450. 12 gauges loaded with slugs would be better for defense than actual hunting but still OK within range restrictions.
I absolutely love the 45/70 Marlin Rifle with 22in barrel to tame the recoil a little bit. Loaded with the hot ammo from Buffalo Bore in the modern guns would be just the ticket.
I absolutely love the 45/70 Marlin Rifle with 22in barrel to tame the recoil a little bit. Loaded with the hot ammo from Buffalo Bore in the modern guns would be just the ticket.
Here's another one I've looked into: Mossberg is offering this 464 lever gun in 30-30...
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=31&display=feat#
To me, it looks more like a Winchester 94 than any new gun I've seen.
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=31&display=feat#
To me, it looks more like a Winchester 94 than any new gun I've seen.
Out here in Idaho, I've never seen anyone actually hunt with a shotgun and slugs. Too many shots at are distances greater than a shotgun and slugs are capable of reaching. Besides, who wants a bear close enough to kill with a shotgun?
Supertac45
Member
A 45-70 Marlin 1895 Guide loaded with the good stuff from Buffalo Bore, Garret, or CorBon. One of you should also tote along a shotgun or .22 for small game if legal or necessary for survival.
theswimmer
Member
Everything Floatpilot stated including the info on property is on target. Smallest caliber for a rifle in AK imo is a 30-06.
Spend some time reading up about the habits of both the Grizzily and the Black Bear. The knowlege will do more to keep you out of trouble than the rifle.Also I must echo his concern about 2 legged creatures.
The only problems I have had in the bush where I felt I was in true danger was from humans.
Also learn as much as you can about surviving in bad weather.In the area you are talking about it can snow any day of the year.
Have a great trip.
Spend some time reading up about the habits of both the Grizzily and the Black Bear. The knowlege will do more to keep you out of trouble than the rifle.Also I must echo his concern about 2 legged creatures.
The only problems I have had in the bush where I felt I was in true danger was from humans.
Also learn as much as you can about surviving in bad weather.In the area you are talking about it can snow any day of the year.
Have a great trip.
Thanks for everyones help and tips, I appreciate it. The trip won't be till summer, but I decided to get a head start. I will do alot of research about survival, and the area, and animals, and guns still.
I think I will either get the Marlin 1894, 44 mag, or the Marlin 336..the 336 is more in my price range, but the 1894 seems real good and has alot of stopping power. I will look around the stores locally for some, checkd the pawn shop the other day, they had two lever actions. So I might order online, but I think putting one on layaway is a better way for me at the time. But thanks guys, your awesome
I think I will either get the Marlin 1894, 44 mag, or the Marlin 336..the 336 is more in my price range, but the 1894 seems real good and has alot of stopping power. I will look around the stores locally for some, checkd the pawn shop the other day, they had two lever actions. So I might order online, but I think putting one on layaway is a better way for me at the time. But thanks guys, your awesome
Mossberg Mariner 500 12 g. with ghost sites, very quick target
aquisition. Rugged, simple, reasonably priced. easy to clean and field strip.
Load with 00 buck alternate with slugs. Load a small game load #4 first, this way you can take hare or grouse if opportunity arises or a bear bang ( in the air !!!) for first shot, most predators will spook at this. Good Luck.
aquisition. Rugged, simple, reasonably priced. easy to clean and field strip.
Load with 00 buck alternate with slugs. Load a small game load #4 first, this way you can take hare or grouse if opportunity arises or a bear bang ( in the air !!!) for first shot, most predators will spook at this. Good Luck.
gun crazy newfie
Member
I would go with any rifle that you can afford. Pretty much all rifles that are built toady are very well made. If you will be using it on a "just in case" basis, I would opt for a scope with a zoom of anywhere from 1.5 - 4 power. If you surprise a bear you will need to acquire him quickly in your scope. I would probably go with open sights if it is a "Survival Weapon" only. I would choose a 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag or a Lever 45-70.
Another great option would be a pump action 12 gauge chambered in at least 3" loaded up with 3" Magnum Slugs. Believe me, it will take a bear easily at close range and you can acquire him in your sights in a flash. Hope this helps.
Another great option would be a pump action 12 gauge chambered in at least 3" loaded up with 3" Magnum Slugs. Believe me, it will take a bear easily at close range and you can acquire him in your sights in a flash. Hope this helps.
Agree with last post obviousy... concerning shotgun and slugs, however... in the adrenalin rush of being charged by a bear... better to have #00 or in Alaska even #000 for first shot. It will slow a bear down for a more accurate slug shot or if your lucky drop it anyway, and should be a last resort anyway. Maybe I'm getting off subject... marine air horns, they make pocket sized ones, will spook most bears before you have to engage one.
Float Pilot
Member
It would appear that he was also looking for an all around rifle for the future besides this one trip.
Buckshot is worthless against a charging brown bear. You get more penetration with magnum pistol bullets than you do with buckshot.
A male Brown Bear (grizzley to the outside folks) on average can run at 30 mph. (44 feet per second)
They can go from standing still looking at you to that speed in 5 or 6 seconds. During that period they can cover 100 yards or more from a dead stop.
1. Buckshot will not penetrate the bones of a Brown Bear.
2. Given a reasonable max buckshot range of 25 yards from a short barreled shotgun, you have a maximum of 2 seconds to stop a 550 to 900 pound ticked-off critter with 8 to 15 soft .33 caliber lead balls that will not hit any vital organs from a frontal shot.
Making lots of noise does help avoid any of this. That is why my dad sent me and my buddies out for overnight camp-outs back when we only had .22s.
There is nothing noiser than three or four 11-year-olds trying to be quite. The only brown bears we saw back in those days were half a mile away.
Buckshot is worthless against a charging brown bear. You get more penetration with magnum pistol bullets than you do with buckshot.
A male Brown Bear (grizzley to the outside folks) on average can run at 30 mph. (44 feet per second)
They can go from standing still looking at you to that speed in 5 or 6 seconds. During that period they can cover 100 yards or more from a dead stop.
1. Buckshot will not penetrate the bones of a Brown Bear.
2. Given a reasonable max buckshot range of 25 yards from a short barreled shotgun, you have a maximum of 2 seconds to stop a 550 to 900 pound ticked-off critter with 8 to 15 soft .33 caliber lead balls that will not hit any vital organs from a frontal shot.
Making lots of noise does help avoid any of this. That is why my dad sent me and my buddies out for overnight camp-outs back when we only had .22s.
There is nothing noiser than three or four 11-year-olds trying to be quite. The only brown bears we saw back in those days were half a mile away.
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gun crazy newfie
Member
If he is looking for an all around rifle as well, I would opt for a 300 Win Mag or the 7mm Rem Mag.
Float Pilot
Member
Yeap you just missed this one up in Wasilla.
Plus there were a couple of 30-06s &45-70s that were recently sold on the Alaska Outdoors site by fellow Alaskans.
Speaking of Wassila, you may want to check out the Wasilla Gun show on the 17th and 18th. Up at the Wasilla High School.
Plus there were a couple of 30-06s &45-70s that were recently sold on the Alaska Outdoors site by fellow Alaskans.
Speaking of Wassila, you may want to check out the Wasilla Gun show on the 17th and 18th. Up at the Wasilla High School.
the 17 and 18th of this month??? I have been waiting to go to a gun show, yet I heard there are only two in Fairbanks and they are not anyime soon. I would love to go to one. Is it any good? I start college again the 22 so it would be close but thatd be awesome. It is a bit too cold to drive that far from Fairbanks in this weather. -45 on average isnt healthy on our vehicles.
A guy is selling a 336C in 30-30 for $500, good deal or not?
A guy is selling a 336C in 30-30 for $500, good deal or not?
The 336C sells new for about $425. So bad deal.
Here's a Marlin 45-70 for $491 delivered.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_323/products_id/41011
Float Pilot
Member
Yeap $500 is steep. Tha deal on the 45-70 is pretty good.
Get on the Alaska outdoors site and post a want rifle ad. There are a bunch of guys up in Fairbanks who will help...
Take your time and do some research. Take a look around some guns shops and stores for ammo cost. Since this will be your first rifle, I am sure you are not a hand-loader yet. So ammo cost here in Alaska can really make a difference on how well you learn to shoot.
30-06 and 308 are probably the least expensive calibers for hunting and target factory ammo up here. The price for factory ammo in the magnum calibers jumps up pretty fast.
Get on the Alaska outdoors site and post a want rifle ad. There are a bunch of guys up in Fairbanks who will help...
Take your time and do some research. Take a look around some guns shops and stores for ammo cost. Since this will be your first rifle, I am sure you are not a hand-loader yet. So ammo cost here in Alaska can really make a difference on how well you learn to shoot.
30-06 and 308 are probably the least expensive calibers for hunting and target factory ammo up here. The price for factory ammo in the magnum calibers jumps up pretty fast.
theswimmer
Member
Once again I must agree with Float Pilot.
If you choose to shoot a grizzily or a big Black bear with buckshot I want to be in the next county.
The speed at which a big bear of either species can cover ground will seem like standing on the freeway in front of an oncoming semi.
Buy a 30-06.
If you choose to shoot a grizzily or a big Black bear with buckshot I want to be in the next county.
The speed at which a big bear of either species can cover ground will seem like standing on the freeway in front of an oncoming semi.
Buy a 30-06.
I didn't do the shooting but I've seen first hand a large black bear killed with one frontal shot to it's chest with 12g. #00.
In 1999 I sailed a small boat down the Mackensie river in NWT, Canada. I was solo. On two occasions I scared off bears, one a two to three year old "brown" that was a couple off feet from the door of my tent and another that was getting too interested in me on the beach... with an air horn... an accurate pistol shot on a charging bear... your a better man than me!!! Remember... these guys sound like they're experience is limited...
In 1999 I sailed a small boat down the Mackensie river in NWT, Canada. I was solo. On two occasions I scared off bears, one a two to three year old "brown" that was a couple off feet from the door of my tent and another that was getting too interested in me on the beach... with an air horn... an accurate pistol shot on a charging bear... your a better man than me!!! Remember... these guys sound like they're experience is limited...
kolob10
Member
If there are Brown Bear in the area, make them aware of your presence with noise. I have never had occasion to fire at a Brown or black bear but I would opt for a lever 45/70 with Garrett bullets. I have both and they woud be more than adequate. I have been around brown bears while hunting/backpacking and they are fast powerful animals. I once was about 30 yards from a big Browning while hunting Elk. Unless you see one of these magnificant animals in their native habitat, one cannot appreciate their beauty, majesty, power, and potential danger. I also cary a 454 Casull with hard cast bullets but this would only serve as a last ditch effort for me. Once stopped a sow black bear charge (my son got between her and one of her cubs) with plenty of yelling and throwing a big stick. I had no weapon at the time up in Yellowstone Park. Don't be caught up in the "that's enough gun"
from the so called experts. I would rather be overgunned and safe than undergunned and hurt or dead. Great country. Good trip!
from the so called experts. I would rather be overgunned and safe than undergunned and hurt or dead. Great country. Good trip!
Float Pilot
Member
I agree with the air horn for scaring them off. Even a shot into the ground in front of them will usually make them change their mind. And of course OC (pepper) spray works most of the time.
And I can see that 00 Buck would work sometimes. Particularly on black bears with shots into meat. Although the need to protect yourself from a charging blackie is right is a rare event.
I have used 12 gauge cracker shells, basically an M-80 fired from a shotgun, on hundreds of occasions in the line of duty. Bears really hate those things.
Some of them will go 75 yards before exploding. They do tend to gum up your barrel though. I think it is the black powder in the fuse. We had one gal who used a bunch of them and never cleaned her shotgun. I grabbed it later during a problem and chambered a slug. When I fired it the barrel burst due to the massive fouling she had built up.
Here are some comparison photos with a range of available shoptgun ammo.
And I can see that 00 Buck would work sometimes. Particularly on black bears with shots into meat. Although the need to protect yourself from a charging blackie is right is a rare event.
I have used 12 gauge cracker shells, basically an M-80 fired from a shotgun, on hundreds of occasions in the line of duty. Bears really hate those things.
Some of them will go 75 yards before exploding. They do tend to gum up your barrel though. I think it is the black powder in the fuse. We had one gal who used a bunch of them and never cleaned her shotgun. I grabbed it later during a problem and chambered a slug. When I fired it the barrel burst due to the massive fouling she had built up.
Here are some comparison photos with a range of available shoptgun ammo.
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theswimmer
Member
"I didn't do the shooting but I've seen first hand a large black bear killed with one frontal shot to it's chest with 12g. #00."
Respectfully Godsdog,
This sounds like the bear was standing on its hind legs when shot.
IMO this will probably represent about 1-2% of shots available. Also the behavior of standing is usualy when a bear is posturing and either scared or triing to intimidate or impress another bear. This goes back to my other post about reading up on both species.Learning about the habits and behaviour will keep you out of trouble 99% of the time.
Respectfully Godsdog,
This sounds like the bear was standing on its hind legs when shot.
IMO this will probably represent about 1-2% of shots available. Also the behavior of standing is usualy when a bear is posturing and either scared or triing to intimidate or impress another bear. This goes back to my other post about reading up on both species.Learning about the habits and behaviour will keep you out of trouble 99% of the time.
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