Uh, Sindawe......
"Voting for the lesser of two evils is STILL voting for evil."
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NOPE!
That's the extremely negative "glass half empty" point of view you are espousing there.
We have a choice between two electable candidates...one virulently anti-gun, the other slightly pro-gun.
It is not evil to vote for the more pro-gun candidate,
IF you wish to advance the cause of RKBA.
Roland, Roland.....
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"Do you forget Clinton's advocacy of the Million Moms and the anti-gun hoopla generated by it? No I remember it well. It got us an AWB that was useless,
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As I suspected, you are 'winging' your part of the discussion.
The Million Moms march was a full five years AFTER the passage of the AWB, AFTER the Democrats had lost control of both the Senate and House. It was pure Clinton anti-gun advocacy, and serves as an example for what serious consequences a Kerry presidency would have had.
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"And your candiate "Dubya" supported it. He said he'd sign its extension."
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No, he said he'd sign it IF it reached his desk. From what I understand, the Whitehouse moved several mountains to see that it didn't. And it didn't.
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"Then his 2nd AG says he supports it too, after his first had to go bacause he was too far to the religious right even for Dubya."
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You see Roland, you can't keep your hatred of the folks under control long enough to discuss the issue. Ashcroft was a fine AG when it came to RKBA.
I suspect Gonzales won't be as pro-RKBA as Ashcroft, but that he won't be anywhere nearly as "anti" as ANY Kerry nomination would have been.
So.....Bush was the better choice for RKBA in this election cycle.
Is any of this sinking in, Roland?
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"Its not your fight because you do not care about anyone else's freedoms, only your own."
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Not at all, Roland. The situation comes about because I have only a limited amount of time to devote to causes which I believe in.
RKBA has nowhere near the strength of advocacy which "woman's rights" and "homosexual rights" seem to have, and they are causes for which I sense no particularurgency as far as any real threats to them.
RKBA, on the other hand is under one long continuous threat, both at the state and federal level.
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"Now if your college freshman full ride scholarship daughter came up a month pregnant, you might suddenly reconsider your view on whether "women killing their unborn children is necessarily a good thing"
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Nope, I no longer have a college daughter, but the one I do have would be brighter than that.
Failing that, she'd be mature enough to live with the consequences. In other words, if I advocated abortion, she'd have the kid and adopt. (Based on a true-life scenario).
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"Or your religious BS might still cloud your vision, I can't say for sure."
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You "can't say for sure", Roland?
No doubt because you don't know what you are talking about, old chum.
I've been an atheist since the age of 14...none of my views have anything to do with "religion".
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"But I, in the mean time, would be defending her freedoms, just like I would your gay son's or neighbor's gay son's, or whatever. You would be against them being free. Very American of you."
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No, Roland, you would be defending her option to kill her unborn child.
There is a difference.
Why should things get to that stage?
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"Maybe some homsexuals don't see why you would want to have a AR-15 in your house, but I would defend your freedom to do that just like I'd defend their right to be able to make medical decisions for their life parnter."
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Most homosexuals, I'd suspect.
And I wouldn't have an AR-15 in my house.
What's "making medical decisions for their life partner" got to do with marriage, anyway. I believe what the conservatives are doing is to try to save the definition of "marriage" as an institution for the production & protection of children. Simple 'couples' legislation will address the issues of homosexual 'partners', as it does here in Australia.
Y'all just have to learn to get along and stop demanding absolutes.
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"BTW I don't think you don't see why they want to, I just think you don't want them to. There is a big difference."
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Nope, you are wrong again, Roland.
Your presumption is threatening to outrun your hyperbole!
I don't see why "marriage" should be applied to what homosexuals are about, given that the majority of folks would prefer the word to have a distinctive meaning.
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"But, if for arguments sake, you are ignorant about why they desire freedom, that is still no excuse for refusing them said freedom."
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For Goodness sake, Roland, I said I wouldn't advocate for homosexual causes.
I'm not advocating for animal rights either.
I am not "refusing" anyone anything.
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"And IMHO refusing someone their freedoms is a good excuse for them to kill you."
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Oh-oh Roland, you have crossed the "stupid barrier" into mindless anti-establishment drivel here.
We have a representative form of government (well, sort of) and I suspect that perhaps you don't possess the necessary patience to work within such a system. Is that what you admire about Che Guevarra?
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"If you think my statements about Liberty or Death are for dramatic effect, then you are sadly mistaken."
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I don't think so, Roland. You make the noises, but they are empty.
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"I mean every word, and it is foremost in my mind everytime I hold and squeeze."
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Dang, Roland....and I'm usually just trying to keep my sight picture.
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"I am ashamed that other Americans aren't for their countrymen being free, and I think that alone sounds the death knell for this grand experiment."
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There's 'free', Roland, and then there's 'anarchy'.
Most of us prefer a balance in between somewhere.
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"Me and about another 40% of the country. I don't know if all of us have Che Tshirts or not (I got my first one in 1995, I don't have one currently, but thanks for asking)"
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Fortunately that 40% wasn't enough.
Wooo-hooo! I knew it!
You can't be a 'real revoluntionary" until you've got Che's T-shirt!
I got mine in 1970 ; .
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"but I do know that there are enough of us well-armed to give you and Fred at the M1A shop nightmares if you only knew about us."
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See, Roland, it's this sort of twaddle that damages your credibility.
Too many 'revolutionary' thoughts, not enough reason.
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"Fortunately for us, your Taliban like determination to destroy anything that doesn't suit your interpretation of a bloodthirsty god's will clouds your vision, and you think we are all Birkenstock wearing, whole wheat eating girls in boys clothes. Keep on thinking that, and keep giving 'Dubya' all your money and your unquestioning loyalty. His scams depend on it, sucker."
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You DO realize that you're writing twaddle, don't you, Roland?
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"The batting average for discussion vs. personal squabbles is rapidly approaching 0.lockdown..."
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Art has a very well-defined sense for a thread that has veered dangerously off-course.
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"You know conservatives, they always decide things on how it makes them feel, not on facts. "I feel that abortion is murder" "I feel that homosexuality is a sin" "I feel like punching Jerry Falwell in the face." Oh wait, that last one is mine."
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Tsk, tsk, Roland.
All that hostility and nothing constructive being done with it.
I wouldn't blame Art for pulling the plug on this one.