alcohol and CCW
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jimmyraythomason
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In Alabama,no CCW in establishments that serve alcohol,(except LE and possibly other exceptions). No consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying. An Alabama CCW permit is void in the above situations and a carrying concealed weapon charge is likely if under the influence. In my county (Blount) alcohol sales and public consumption are illegal, so it's a double whammy. I don't drink at all so I don't worry about it.
NC strictly forbids CCW while any alcohol is in your blood or in any establishments that serve alcohol. I rarely drink and when I do it's at home, so that solves both the drinking while carrying and drinking while driving problems.
So how inflexible is this rule? I can have a beer or two or a glass of wine with dinner and be nowhere near under the influence. I think most of accept that there is an amount you can drink and still be fine to drive, doesn't the same apply to carrying?
I've just never understood the whole "omg alcohol, lock up the guns" thing. I don't juggle knives or feel like I need to hide my car keys because I'm having a drink. If you know your limits and you're responsible, go for it.
Personally, I will NOT carry when I'm drinking. Since I rarely drink, this has not been a serious problem.
However I decided to see what the law was in Washington. All I could find is:
Interesting....
In Washington a CPL is only required when:
1. Concealling a weapon on your person (Open carry does not require a CPL)
2. When carrying a loaded weapon in motor vehicle.
3. When on school property for limited reasons (IE.. picking up or dropping off a student).
One other provision that may apply:
One could probably argue that someone under the influence of alcohol openly carrying a firearm "Warrants Alarm".
However I decided to see what the law was in Washington. All I could find is:
Interesting....
In Washington a CPL is only required when:
1. Concealling a weapon on your person (Open carry does not require a CPL)
2. When carrying a loaded weapon in motor vehicle.
3. When on school property for limited reasons (IE.. picking up or dropping off a student).
One other provision that may apply:
One could probably argue that someone under the influence of alcohol openly carrying a firearm "Warrants Alarm".
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Biker says,
I think I will second whatever he was thinking when he wrote it. (yes I have read what he said in the past on the subject.)
Jorg is pretty much on target as well.
I have a feeling that all these protestations of virtue play right into the hands of antis who can then say "Since alcohol reveals the real person, if the gun people are so fearful of have their true personalities revealed, we have been right about them all along."
I am waiting for, "Lips that have touched wine shall never touch mine." Or is that another topic?
I think I will second whatever he was thinking when he wrote it. (yes I have read what he said in the past on the subject.)
Jorg is pretty much on target as well.
I have a feeling that all these protestations of virtue play right into the hands of antis who can then say "Since alcohol reveals the real person, if the gun people are so fearful of have their true personalities revealed, we have been right about them all along."
I am waiting for, "Lips that have touched wine shall never touch mine." Or is that another topic?
As long as you are not stoned out of your head, I see no problem having some wine or beer while carrying but state laws prevail,
On a side note : "therapeutically appropriate amounts". A license to drink?
On a side note : "therapeutically appropriate amounts". A license to drink?
In CT, when you're carrying your BAC better be below .01
In other words, don't drink at all, not even a little bit or you risk going over.
In other words, don't drink at all, not even a little bit or you risk going over.
fletcher
Member
While I do not advise it, you may be able to carry with a "therapeutic" amount of alcohol in your blood, say perhaps less than or equal to a glass of wine. Like I said, I wouldn't advise it, but there's certainly room in the law as written for it to be argued that way.
fletcher
Member
Actually the only places restricted by law are public gatherings. (Public gatherings aren't what you think. Not sports events, parades, etc. It only applies to political gatherings, and only if you are participating) Even schools are okay. (A funny thing is, without a permit in Alabama it's only illegal to carry a firearm K-12 'with intent to do harm', but has an exception for LEOs, etc, and permit holders. The permit allows you to carry 'with intent to do harm' then?)
A sheriff can write whatever he wants on the permit. It doesn't mean it's legally binding. I've seen all sorts of stuff like 'If you are caught intoxicated you will have your permit confiscated and be charged with illegal carrying of a weapon'. This is all BS and doesn't have a leg to stand on in court. I've seen people get their permits back through court for stuff like this.
Hell, I remember a court case (not the name off the top of my head) where I guy was OCing in a bar, and the police arrested him for all sorts of stuff. All of it tossed aside in court because it's not illegal to carry in a bar, CC or OC.
The only cases you can find in Alabama with people getting convicted of violating location restrictions were before pre-emption in B'ham and such during the 60s when they had all sorts of crazy laws to try and curb the social unrest.
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jimmyraythomason
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"Actually the only places restricted by law are public gatherings." I stand corrected. This is the back of my CCW permit issued by the sheriff.
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Anybody wanna help me out with the PA restrictions?
I can't imagine walking around smashed you could still escape some sort of charge for creating a dangerous situation.
If I'm at a bar, I usually disarm, unless it's cocktails at lunch or one beer after dinner. But that's just my personal comfort zone. In the past, I have driven and carried within the legal BAC limit.
But if I'm going out, that means there's a DD, he's armed, and standing policy is "You start it- you finish it, no jumping in unless it's not your fault"
Plus how awesomely cool do you feel nursing one beer all night, getting funny looks from the bartender, because you're shepherding the party crowd? heh.
I can't imagine walking around smashed you could still escape some sort of charge for creating a dangerous situation.
If I'm at a bar, I usually disarm, unless it's cocktails at lunch or one beer after dinner. But that's just my personal comfort zone. In the past, I have driven and carried within the legal BAC limit.
But if I'm going out, that means there's a DD, he's armed, and standing policy is "You start it- you finish it, no jumping in unless it's not your fault"
Plus how awesomely cool do you feel nursing one beer all night, getting funny looks from the bartender, because you're shepherding the party crowd? heh.
one or two beers ain't gonna do nothing negatively to affect my body, heart or mind. I do agree you shouldn't get smashed while carrying but I don't see anything wrong with having a beer or two while carrying as long as you aren't negatively affected by it. Only you know what you can and can't do.
[/QUOTE]Here is (some of) what the Michigan State Police have to say about it:
Michigan State Police - Carrying Under the Influence
An individual carrying a concealed pistol with any BAC is subject to immediate seizure of their pistol and the following penalties:
BAC of .02 - .07 = State civil infraction, $100 fine, and up to 1-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .08 - .09 = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and up to 3-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .10 or more = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and permanent CCW license revocation[/QUOTE]
And yet a surgeon can perform surgery on you with a BAC of .05 or less
and a driver can operate a moter vehicle up to 26001 GVW at .08. I would rather see the numbers reversed, you can carry with any BAC but .02 for operating any dangerous equipment e.g. motor vehicles, drugs, and surgical equipment.
Michigan State Police - Carrying Under the Influence
An individual carrying a concealed pistol with any BAC is subject to immediate seizure of their pistol and the following penalties:
BAC of .02 - .07 = State civil infraction, $100 fine, and up to 1-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .08 - .09 = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and up to 3-year CCW license revocation.
BAC of .10 or more = 93-day misdemeanor, $100 fine, and permanent CCW license revocation[/QUOTE]
And yet a surgeon can perform surgery on you with a BAC of .05 or less
and a driver can operate a moter vehicle up to 26001 GVW at .08. I would rather see the numbers reversed, you can carry with any BAC but .02 for operating any dangerous equipment e.g. motor vehicles, drugs, and surgical equipment.we need a "heavy hitter" designation on drivers licenses... if you can drink a 6-pack and still navigate a scooter through a concrete filled obstacle course, you get a DL that allows for a higher BAC that normal people... i drink all the time (never armed)... and i usually find that i get bored long before i get drunk
DO remember in MI, as with drivers licenses, a CCW permit has implied consent, that by accepting the license, you are saying that you will submit to an alcohol test whenever carrying, or forfeit the license.
And do remember, depending on body size, one drink (12oz beer/4oz wine/1.5oz 80 proof) will put you close to/over .02 BAC. While I know my judgement isn't impared after one beer, me not knowing what one beer puts me at for sure in regards to staying legal, constitutes me not drinking while carrying.
One last point - if you have a gun in the glove box of your car, remember that when you come out of a bar and lock it up.
And do remember, depending on body size, one drink (12oz beer/4oz wine/1.5oz 80 proof) will put you close to/over .02 BAC. While I know my judgement isn't impared after one beer, me not knowing what one beer puts me at for sure in regards to staying legal, constitutes me not drinking while carrying.
One last point - if you have a gun in the glove box of your car, remember that when you come out of a bar and lock it up.
Minnesota
Back when MN was a "may issue" state, the permit was zero tolerance, and stated so on the card: Any use of alcohol invalidates use
Now, as above, under .04 is OK.
.04 to .10 is a misdemeanor, loss of CCW for 180 days, firearm involved not subject to forfeiture.
over .10, misdemeanor, 1 year loss of CCW and firearm may be forfeited
Back when MN was a "may issue" state, the permit was zero tolerance, and stated so on the card: Any use of alcohol invalidates use
Now, as above, under .04 is OK.
.04 to .10 is a misdemeanor, loss of CCW for 180 days, firearm involved not subject to forfeiture.
over .10, misdemeanor, 1 year loss of CCW and firearm may be forfeited
@Jimmy:
Yeah I've seen permits with that on the back. My county had those until a few years ago. It seems to be some sort of generic Alabama pistol permit template that went around.
Yeah I've seen permits with that on the back. My county had those until a few years ago. It seems to be some sort of generic Alabama pistol permit template that went around.
@Jimmy:
Yeah I've seen permits with that on the back. My county had those until a few years ago. It seems to be some sort of generic Alabama pistol permit template that went around.
The sheriff can't actually add any restrictions to a license (there was a court decision or an AG op awhile back iirc).
Actually, while Alabama is technically 'may issue' like California, it's also technically 'shall issue'. The AG and courts say that a Sheriff must issue permits in 'appropriate cases'. The problem is 'appropriate cases' aren't defined, so if a Sheriff doesn't issue you one you have to take it to court and let a judge decide.
I'll try to dig up a few cases I found when I was doing some research this summer.
EDIT: I found the case about the bar situation. I'm too tired to look for the rest right now, but I might look later. Attached....
Yeah I've seen permits with that on the back. My county had those until a few years ago. It seems to be some sort of generic Alabama pistol permit template that went around.
The sheriff can't actually add any restrictions to a license (there was a court decision or an AG op awhile back iirc).
Actually, while Alabama is technically 'may issue' like California, it's also technically 'shall issue'. The AG and courts say that a Sheriff must issue permits in 'appropriate cases'. The problem is 'appropriate cases' aren't defined, so if a Sheriff doesn't issue you one you have to take it to court and let a judge decide.
I'll try to dig up a few cases I found when I was doing some research this summer.
EDIT: I found the case about the bar situation. I'm too tired to look for the rest right now, but I might look later. Attached....
Attachments
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Why even mess with it? Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility. I would never want to have impaired judgement while carrying. One bad moment is all it takes...
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