CCW in Missouri restaurants that serve alcohol

[D-Day]

I'm making one of my visits to St. Louis to hang out with friends, and since my Ohio CCW is valid there, I will be carrying whenever I can. I mean, that really is the best place to keep a gun with you, in a city like that. Not that I've ever had problems, but you know...

I searched around here and found some vague references to MO's laws. Let me preface this by saying I have no interest in having alcohol of any kind while carrying, nor do I intend to carry in real bars. If we're going to a real bar, I might wanna have a few drinks, and obviously, not gonna be taking my gun there. It'd be left behind.

But me and a friend do go out to eat for lunch and dinner and stuff at restaurants that serve alcohol...if you're familiar with St. Louis, say, places like Cicero's, Johnny's, Tucker's, etc. He likes to have a drink with food sometimes, but me, I never drink with food. A good Pepsi is much more refreshing to wash down a good filet mignon or grilled cheese and fries.

I'd really like to carry there, but I know in Ohio you can't set foot in any place that serves alcohol, but I heard/read a while back that MO was somewhat more lenient, as long as their primary source of revenue was brought in by non-alcohol sales. Is this correct? Does anybody have specifics?

 

[Solo Flyer]

Bars are OL.Restaurants of the type you are describing revenue wise are OK.Correct me if wrong Show Me staters.
Notice the no gun sign law in Mizzou.

Missouri Must Notify Officer: No
Wildlife Management Areas State/National Forests State Parks Road Side Rests
Yes
(Except When Bow Hunting) YES YES 10 CSR 902.020(
17) YES per MSHP
571.107 Endorsement does not authorize concealed firearms, where:
(1) Any Police, Sheriff, or Highway Patrol Office or Station,
(2) Within twentyfive
feet of any Polling Place on any Election Day.
(3) Any Correctional Facility.
(4) Any Courthouse or Building used by a Court.
(5) Any Government Meeting including State Legislature.
(6) Government Owned Buildings except Public Housing.
(7) Bars.
(8) Secured parts of Airports.
(9) Prohibited by Federal Law;
(10) All Schools (Including Colleges);
(11) Child Care Facilities.
(12) Casino
(13) Amusement Park.
(14) Any Church
(15) Private Property with 11X14 sign with one inch letters.
(16) Arenas and Stadiums seating over 5,000.
(17)Publicly accessible Hospitals.

info from:
http://www.handgunlaw.us

 

[D-Day]

I know bars are. Restaurants that serve food are not primarily considered a bar...such as Applebees, TGI Friday's, etc. This is why I'm looking for clarification.

 

[patricksrange]

CCW - Missouri

Missouri does allow you to have a concealed carry firearm in a restaurant. Not a Bar! If the establishment makes more than 50% of it's revenue by selling alcohol...then, you cannot have the weapon there. If it is an Applebee's, Western Sizzlon, Ruby Tues., etc....yes, you are okay. As they DO NOT sell more than 50% of their revenue in Liquor Sales. Keep it out of sight, out of view...you are okay. BUT....remember, if you are INTOXICATED..you violate many other rules and laws. Common sense rules.

DG

 

[Solo Flyer]

I know bars are. Restaurants that serve food are not primarily considered a bar...such as Applebees, TGI Friday's, etc. This is why I'm looking for clarification.

Sorry D-Day, I added the clarification while you were posting.
patricksrange has given us the complete story.
Thank you,patrick.

 

[D-Day]

No worries. Thanks a lot guys, just what I needed to know.

 

[proud2deviate]

Missouri Revised Statutes.


(Emphasis added)

2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a** concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry endorsement for a period of three years. Upon conviction of charges arising from a citation issued pursuant to this subsection, the court shall notify the sheriff of the county which issued the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue. The sheriff shall suspend or revoke the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue shall issue a notice of such suspension or revocation of the concealed carry endorsement and take action to remove the concealed carry endorsement from the individual's driving record. The director of revenue shall notify the licensee that he or she must apply for a new license pursuant to chapter 302, RSMo, which does not contain such endorsement. A concealed carry endorsement suspension pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall be reinstated at the time of the renewal of his or her driver's license. The notice issued by the department of revenue shall be mailed to the last known address shown on the individual's driving record. The notice is deemed received three days after mailing.

Carry where you want. Don't get caught. Don't be an ass if you do. Leave quietly. You'll be fine, dandy, and perfectly legal.

Of course, IANAL. . .

 

[D-Day]

Heh, I can do that.

 

[bogie]

From what I understand, bars/restaurants are -not- off limits. What matters is if the premises is posted or not. In addition, if my instructor was correct, if you are drinking (i.e., one sip = drinking), and in possession of a loaded firearm, that's a felony. If it isn't loaded, that's a misdemeanor.

Here's the section pertinent:

(7) Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor or nonintoxicating beer for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated;

I'm thinking that Cicero's probably seats more than 50, and quite possibly sells more food than booze... If it doesn't have a sign, and you're not drinking yourself, don't worry. If it shows, you may get asked to leave. Let us know.

Now, if it is the Tucker's I'm thinking about, I'm pretty sure they seat more than 50 and likely have more than 51% in food sales. Where is Johnny's?

At any rate, if you're gonna be going to the Loop at night, I'd carry.

 

[D-Day]

The Loop is one of my favorite places...I know one place I don't need to hang out, is North City. My friend gave me a quick drive through tour of that place last time I was there. No business for me there.

Johnny's Restaurant And Bar (full name so it can be Googled) is actually not that far from Tucker's, if I remember right. It's in the Soulard area. So much good food there.

edit: Yeah, practically down the street.

Tucker's Place - Google Maps

Johnny's Restaurant And Bar

 

[Technosavant]

Carry where you want. Don't get caught. Don't be an ass if you do. Leave quietly. You'll be fine, dandy, and perfectly legal.

Just one hitch with this thinking. If you deliberately carry into a prohibited location, don't expect that the business owner will follow the letter of the law; after all, you didn't. There have been no publicized reports of somebody getting in trouble due to carrying into a prohibited place (note; I mean prohibited by state law or by property owner, not by fed law). It hasn't come up yet, but even one such incidence is one too many for our side. We should be following the law as closely as possible, not seeking for ways to get around it. Personally, I'd expect to see a business owner press trespassing charges, even if not under RSMO 571 (the concealed carry statue), just because they will feel like they want to get back at you. They already don't like you because you have a weapon, don't expect them to ask nicely before calling the police.

Just remember, wherever you happen to be: concealed means concealed, and expect police attention if it becomes known you are carrying a gun, whether in an allowed or prohibited place.

 

[D-Day]

I won't going into places prohibited. If I see a place is posted, I'll (begrudgingly) turn right back around and go lock my gun up before going in.

 

[Technosavant]

I'm sure you weren't, I just posted that because often people here think "well, there's no real penalty, so concealed means concealed, and if they ask me to leave, I'll go."

That assumes they'll ask nicely. I doubt they would.

 

[RustyShackelford]

FL laws about firearms/CCed weapons...

In Florida, you can carry loaded firearms concealed in restaurants that sell alcohol or have bar areas but not bars/nightclubs/lounges/etc. If a place sells food and has a different seating area then it's street legal, . Now, I'd add that some restaurants MAY have their own policy about weapons/firearms. I have seen a few places in the major city that I live in with lists of rules and/or no-nos, .
For my $$$, if you have a valid carry permit or license, common sense & good judgement would say you have shown that you can carry a loaded weapon concealed and not get drunk or act like a a-hole, but more & more sworn LEOs and DAs are foaming at the mouth to jam up armed citizens for any type of incident....

RS

 

[D-Day]

I never posted to this thread after I got back. I had no problems carrying in STL. My friend would always shake his head at my "arsenal" that I carried with me, with a smiling sigh.

What really sucked when we'd go over the river to Illinois. No carry provisions whatsoever, so I'd always have to leave them at his place, since I didn't have a convenient pistol case in his SUV to lock up the gun and ammo for "transport mode" (and still have the gun physically available in a worst case scenario).

It didn't really bother me being unarmed for personal safety reasons...just taking off my Don Hume holster (sometimes plural) was a pain with my Wrangler jeans and all those belt loops and the way I have to do it.

What? That schtuff is time consuming. Okay, maybe not. But when I put my gun(s) on, I expect to leave them on until I go to bed. I then came to the brilliant realization that I could just leave the empty holsters on, and just leave the gun behind. Duh.

There were times when I was glad I had my CCW. Some other friends of mine just got a place in a rougher area, off Gravois a ways. It's a pretty ghetto neighborhood (although, not as bad as North City) and I felt comforted that I was carrying my companions at the small of my back.

There was also a suspected serial killer in the bi-state area, and was thought to be near St. Louis at some point. Not a real worry to me, granted all the other people you might have to deal with in the city, but you know.

 

[ilbob]

but more & more sworn LEOs and DAs are foaming at the mouth to jam up armed citizens for any type of incident...

Is that really true or is it that more and more these kind of incidents are becoming more widely known? I suspect the latter.

 

[Mahnmut]

I have a question along this line. How does one follow proper etiquette when asking to see the ledger of a restaurant/bar to see if more than 50% of their income is from food or alcohol?

 

[Technosavant]

I have a question along this line. How does one follow proper etiquette when asking to see the ledger of a restaurant/bar to see if more than 50% of their income is from food or alcohol?

The rule of thumb is basically the purpose of the establishment. If it is mostly a bar, then it likely isn't a 50% food business. If it is a restaurant that also has a bar, then you're fine. Places like Applebee's are run on food sales (alcohol is profitable, but they don't sell THAT much of it). However, if we are talking about a bar that just happens to serve food, then carry is likely off limits.

Do folks go there to eat or do they go there to get their drink on?

 

[jeremy71504]

I work for the city so I will ask one of the officers tomorrow about it at work. Over here is its not posted your able to carry by what I remember.