all-around rifle??

[proven]

i've been doing some reseach and was hoping maybe you guys could help. i'm looking for a good (don't know if there's a best) all around rifle. type of action, caliber etc. reliable, versatile, accurate etc. primary use would be target and home defense. wouldn't be used for hunting, so i don't need to worry about that. i like the idea of something that's good for long range , but would this make it overpowered for HD?? i'm fairly new to rifles so any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

 

[KaceCoyote]

Look into a lever action by either Winchester or Marlin(marlin rawks), something like a .45 colt or .357 seems to fit the bill to me. I dont have a whole bunch've experience with pistol calibers but I know my Marlin has worked seemlessly from the day of its purchase till this day. Its endured hard shooting, long period s without cleaning and some pretty ????ty ammunition. Its also a relatively nice peice because of the fact its very easy to work a lever action swiftly. An SKS or AK knockoff may fit the bill here too, but niether will be much good for the long range stuff(barring Vepr and the nicer SKSs). Check out Wally-world and feel one. They've got heft and are built very stout. The marlin is heavier and thicker, which I like because it helps with recoil and provides me with a better grip. The Chester is thinner and alittle lighter. Keep in mind if the levers themselves are too tight and dont fit your fingers, WWG makes bigger hoops though I cant qoute you a price off the top've my head.

 

[jon1996]

hello,
let me try to solve this problem for you, there is no such thing as a all around rifle, IMHO, for target shooting and long range shooting it is very hard to beat a .243 in a savage 110, remington 700, winchester mod 70, and a few others, but there are several rifles and calibers that will satisfy your needs, now for home defense, a high power centerfire rifle is not good, it is a bad idea really, i dont know where you live or how many homes or what is outside your walls, but it dont matter, you have no idea where the bullet will travel, home defense firearm of my choice is a good 12 or 20 guage depending how well you can shoot either one, choice is simple for me on gun, remington 870, but there is a whole lot more quality guns out there, load it with 00 buck or #4 shot and your good to go, also a good handgun will do what you need for home defense, but just train with anything you get and make it second nature to rely on training and gun control, whats the point of having a firearm if you can not shoot it proficently? this is just my 2 cents,
im out,
jon

 

[JohnKSa]

I think if you want something that could be considered "long range" as you mentioned in your post, you should stay away from rifles chambered in pistol cartridges, pistols, or shotguns.

You didn't mention a price range, nor what you consider "long range", nor what type of target shooting you intend to do. However, home defense does imply a relatively short and handy rifle.

Sooo, let's assume that you can spend around $700 and "long range" means 300 yards and target shooting means informal paper punching.

In that case, I'd recommend a good quality plain jane AR-15 with a medium length barrel--maybe 18". Later on, if you want to get more serious about your target shooting you can buy a target upper for your rifle that will do most anything you can expect from a .223

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

it's called a scout rifle, and steyr makes it.

 

[albanian]

I think the rifle is a poor choice for HD because it is long and can penetrate many walls before stopping. House are not made very well these days and often, there is not much more than a sheet of drywall and a some plywood in outside walls.

If this is not a problem or a concern for you, then I would suggest getting a med-low powered rifle. Since you are not going to need it for hunting, there is no need for a 30.06. Consider a rifle that shoots a handgun caliber like 9mm, 40&SW, 45acp, .357mag or .44 mag.

If you want a rifle cal, there is always the .223 and the 7.62x39mm. The AR-15, Mini-14 and many other are chambered in .223 while the AK-47, SKS and others are chambered in 7.62. 7.62 is a little cheaper but .223 is a nice cartridge and one I prefer if given a choice due to higher velocity and lower recoil.

 

[proven]

thanks for the info so far guys...

have an 870p and a 1911 as first choices for HD. just want to add a "utility" rifle to my collection. something non-specific. good for a couple uses. i know there's alot to choose from and probably not a perfect choice. but if you could have only one rifle in your home for mutiple tasks...what would it be??

thanks again

 

[roscoe]

Spend some time poking around the archives here, and at www.thefiringline.com, and many of your questions will be answered. But, just as a one-off, a rifle is probably not the ideal weapon for home defense in an urban environment because of issues like ovepenetration, and working in tighter quarters (like within a house). Like with most tools, a firearm that will work OK for all applications will generally not be as effective as one designed for a single specific application.

You just need to decide what you really want it for.

 

[KaceCoyote]

Might an SU-16 fit the bill here? Its no sniper rifle, but its light and handy and its pretty wicked. Chamberd .223, takes M16 mags, built in bipod, the rifle folds in half? Kel-tech makes it I think, and yes I want one.

 

[GD]

No such thing as all around rifle. Do what most of us do and buy many! One for each occasion.

 

[BusMaster007]

Based on your current list, I'd say a Remington 7600 in either .308 or .30-06.
It will operate very similarly to your 870.
There's a Law Enforcement version carbine in .308 that has a ghost-ring sight setup on it.
Other versions are available, such as the Synthetic Carbine with an 18.5" bbl. in .30-06. I think they're reasonably priced, too.
4+1 rounds would fit into the utility catagory and provide you with power and reach without having a scope/extended magazine attached to the rifle.
If you need a scope on it or more ammo on board, there are plenty of options to do that, although the extended mags aren't as reliable as the factory ones.
Good Luck on your choice.

 

[iamkris]

Long range target (200+ yards) -- bolt action in cal .30 or so. Remington 700, Win 70, Savage 110, etc. Maybe a single shot like a Ruger

Short range plinking (<100 yards) -- 22 LR or .223. 10/22, AR15, Mini 14, SKS

Long range SHTF -- MBR in 30 cal or so. FN-FAL of M1A or AR10

Short range SHTF - pistol caliber (357 or 44 or 45 Colt) lever gun, or poodleshooter caliber 223 AR15, Mini 14

Again, don't think there is an "all around rifle" but if I had to get 1 rifle that was inexpensive to aquire, cheap to shoot, fun and easy on the shoulder, decently accurate, I'd probably first start with a 22LR (to learn the basices of marksmanship...very different that shotgun or pistol) then go with an SKS, an AR or a pistol cal lever gun. You can see below how I've tried to solve the "one all purpose rifle" dilemma

 

[albanian]

iamkris,
What is the 4th rifle down in your pic? I love Mannlicher stocks even though I can't spell it.

 

[iamkris]

albanian

It's a Mossberg 46(a). I believe it was a quick follow-on to the Mossberg WWII military trainers. Serveral of the parts interchange. In person, it's not much to look at but it is super accurate (sort of like me without the "super accurate" part). It was handed down from my grandfather and was my constant companion while growing up.

 

[JohnKSa]

Short range plinking (<100 yards) -- 22 LR or .223. 10/22, AR15, Mini 14, SKS

Let's see--

.22LR 40 grains @ 1200fps

.223 40 grains @ 3650fps or 55 grains @ 3300fps or 69 grains @ 3000fps.

What is it that makes the .223, like the .22LR only suitable for short range plinking? If that's really true, then why has the AR-15 been winning military rifle matches at ranges out to 600 yards when competing against cartridges like .308 and .30-06?

There's a lot more to a cartridge than the bullet diameter. The .223 is as different from the .22LR as the 7.62x54R is different from the 32ACP.

 

[benEzra]

I think the rifle is a poor choice for HD because it is long and can penetrate many walls before stopping.

As far as penetration, that depends on caliber and bullet choice. .223 Remington 40-gr JHP penetrates less in building materials than 115-gr 9mm JHP. Some rifles (mostly "EBR's") are also short enough to be suitable for HD. The main drawback to an appropriate caliber rifle is increased noise/muzzle blast, and probably increased risk of hearing damage.

My main HD gun is my 9mm (based on storage and accessibility considerations), but its main backup is a Ruger mini-14 with a Choate "E2" stock; ammo is Federal 40-gr JHP.

 

[MrMurphy]

A 16.5" barreled AR15, the closest civilian counterpart to the military M4 carbine, with softpoint loads, will do wonders against bad guys, body armor, and not overpenetrate nearly as much as a pistol JHP load indoors. A SWAT team I know switched from 9mm Colt 635s (M4 in 9mm) to 5.56mm M4s for that reason.

It's not as short and handy as a pistol indoors, but proper training in an urban rifle course will get around most of that. I'm about as handy with an M4 as a pistol indoors unless it's one-handed (door opening, etc) which a sling, single or three point solves.


5.56mm without a scope will hit at 300 meters easily, with a ACOG or similar combat scope, as far as 500 meters, though ballistically it doesn't do terribly well at that distance with FMJ loads, a softpoint's ok. Guys in Afghanistan with 14.5" M4s with ACOGs have reported lethal hits at 400-500 meters, so the short barrel isn't exactly hampering them.

The Kel-Tec SU-16 would do the same job cheaper, though it's not made as well (more polymer) it's also a brand new rifle, so give it year or two to work the kinks out.

A Sub-2000 9mm or .40 would be a nice plinking carbine with HD backup, as would a leveraction in pistol caliber.

 

[sgtslasher]

HD depends on your home...

In my home, the kids rooms are on the other side of the main living area, so overpenetration or a miss is a BIG TIME WORRY!!!! so hyper velocity spray and pray is out.... So is 12ga with Buck shot...plus the long arm is awkward for those without tactical experience on how to move and clear a room.... IMHO a handgun with glasers or magsafes is the ticket!!! its easier to use, easier to use a flashlight, turn on lights open doors etc... if you are not a pistollerro or don't practice much (or if your significant other isn't bery comfy with guns,,,) the a revolver is the only way to go, however a DA auto like a Glock is EASY to use and learn on... 38 revolver and 9mm are max unless if overpenetration is a factor.... On the street I like .45, .40 and 357 sig, at home its 38 spl or .25, but close range with a pistol I don't miss much either

 

[iamkris]

There's a lot more to a cartridge than the bullet diameter. The .223 is as different from the .22LR as the 7.62x54R is different from the 32ACP.

Never said the 22 LR was equivalent to a .223. Only my opinion that a .223 is an excellent short-to-intermediate range plinking, target and SHTF cartridge.

Sheesh...saying ANYTHING about the .223 other than that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread brings out all kinda angst.

I think it's a fine cartridge for it's intended purpose. Just not MY choice for the all around cartridge.

 

[JohnKSa]

As pointed out, the .223 is a reasonably effective antipersonnel round out to 500 yards and beyond with the proper ammunition and with the same qualifications is a decent target round out to 600 yards. Those are the facts, and they don't dovetail with labeling the .223 a round suitable for only "Short range plinking (<100 yards)".

I'm not a real big .223 fan myself, but there's a limit to how far you can stretch the facts to fit personal opinions...

 

[Marshall]

Pick up a .30 carbine. Great for what your looking for.

 

[iamkris]

JohnKSa

I really hesitated making this reply and may still do so.

Please look at my first post to the question. I said in MY opinion in some arbitrarily set up categories that those were the guns/calibers that I would PREFER. I wasn't trying to create a complete treatise on the advantages and disadvantages of each. Heavens, I didn't list the 308 for a plinking round inside of 200 yards...but I bet there are guys who do that all the time...and they didn't choose to scream about it. I didn't list the 22LR as a big game hunting round either..but there are stories of poachers shooting elephants through the eye with one (all right...I just made that up)

The categories are there because in those categories those are the ones I'd PREFER. Thanks, I'll take a 308 over a 223 at 200 yards any day of the week. Doesn't mean the 223 won't perform there...just means that's my opinion. My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Please don't create an argument where none exists.

 

[Med 10]

Get a quality sks and dont look back. Use the extra $ for accesories and practice ammo. accurate enough, deadly at practical combat ranges, drop dead reliable. Besides, how often will you use a long arm at ranges past 300yrds unless you are a sniper or hunting.

7.62x39 has been killing very efficiently for over half a century and unless the human anatomy plans on changing it should continue to do so. IF you get the hankering to kill youre own food the 7.62x39 is a decent short to medium hunting round.

With a little more cash you could get into a VEPR and have the power and reliability of an AK along with 2moa accuracy.

For home defense I'd go with a handgun or shotgun. Heck, even a used 38 would suffice fo HD.

 

[Smoke]

Bolt action of your choice in .308 or .30-06

Marlin or WIn Lever in .30-30
Savage 99 in .300 Savage.

My $.02

Smoke

 

[J Scott]

I'm not sure if it has been suggested:

www.tcarms.com

J Scott