All you experts, help me choose a handgun... :-)

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Well, let's see...

I would trust both .45 and 9mm for personal defense as long as we're talking about quality loads.

There's only one possible reason for me to choose .45 ACP: getting a 1911 in its original caliber. I wouldn't want a 9mm 1911 either.

Should I decide to get a 1911 I'll apply for .45, in case I want a wheelgun it'll of course be .357 mag, if I opt for anything else I'll go 9mm. As I said, my caliber selection depends on what gun I decide to get.

T., you mentioned some nice pieces but since I'm a BDMP member I'll definitely go with a basic no-nonsense production gun that roughly qualifies as a "service gun" under our rules. That means I have to "downgrade" your suggestions to a stock HK USP, Glock 17 and CZ-75B :) All of them are still on my list of "possibles", though. Oh BTW, the Elite IS butt-ugly ;)

I know that most of those guns that were mentioned by all of you might not give me match-grade accuracy, but at this point I'm not able yet to outshoot any reasonably accurate gun anyway. Besides, I compete against those guns too, so I wouldn't really be at a disadvantage.

I have shot a Glock and didn't really mind the trigger and the strange grip angle; in fact it was quite a nice shooting. However, I do have a problem with getting spoiled by the Glock; it just points waaayy different than any other gun, and chances are that I'll carry one of those "other" guns on duty again next year. This may make sense or not... ;)

So right now it boils down to the question whether I want a 1911, a revolver or a hi-cap wondernine.


Regards,

Trooper


Edited to add:
Schromf, Peters Stahl guns are NOT reasonably priced precisely because they ARE German-made :) At least for me... They have a good reputation, though.
 
I tell you, Gunware, passion can go a looong way... "Revenge is a dish best served cold..." :D :D

No, the reason is that German politicians, judges and goverment administrators have always held the position that there should be as few firearms in private hands as possible. The waiting period is meant to sort out the serious sports shooters from all those guys who just want to acquire a gun for committing horrendous crimes with it, like defending their family against Eastern European burglar gangs... :banghead:


Regards,

Trooper
 
Ooooooh! Get the HK! GOOOOOO USP!

It was my first pistol and will be my next pistol. :)

HK USP in 9mm of .45. You can't go wrong! :)
 
Glock:(

I wouldn't consider waiting a year on a list for a Glock. I have a Model 34 it shoots good, is fairly accurate, has crappy sights, makes funny noises like a clock coming unsprung every time I shoot it ( really distracting ), and is dirt cheap to shoot. Do I like it, Yeah, would I trade it for any of my S&W revolvers, my Colt Python, or my Colt 1911's: ARE YOU SMOKING CRACK??? I like my model 19 less, but it is more reliable.

You will pay a premium for a Colt in GE, or any US manufacturer. I have no idea what a Stahl would cost there, but I am reasonably certain I would have to mortgage one of my kids to afford one here, one word quality.

You didn't drop ammo prices on us but it sounded like 9 x 19 was reasonable there. A good solid choice is a SIG. Are the 225's still available? Other good choices are a 220 in 9mm, and a 226. What fits your hand? Another Sig is a 210 ( more expensive ). I don't have any idea what your used market is like there but any of the above in servicable condition are good choices. A used 225 in the US in great condition should be in the 375-450 dollar range. New they are unavailable. A new P220 in a 45 ACP is around $650, in 9mm again unavailable.

I would decide what you want to do with your firearm and make some decisions based on your anticipated use. An example is a daily carry weapon should relatively light and compact but fit your hand, but a range or hunting weapon can be larger and heavier. A P225 is a good carry weapon, a P210 is a great range gun. Me just cause I can't buy new ones I would get a new P220 in a 38 Super but a 9mm in the same gun is a solid choice. There is nothing bad about a P226, actually the only Sig I wouldn't want is a plastic handled one.

HK's good solid guns, I don't like their triggers especially, but they are solid platform, if they fit you well. I don't see how you will save any money on an HK, but if you do you have a tale to tell that we all want to hear I am sure. My favorite HK is a P7M13, they are on the periodic table of elements here in the US as unavailabilium. If HK are still selling these new there it would be my first chioce, it has it all concealable, accurate, reliable, and style. If I couldn't get a M13 I would settle for a M8, but a M13 would be a no brainer save my money till I could afford it, and a M8 other options come into play.

CZ- I figure this should cost around 200 DM give or take a small amount if your paying more than that your getting ripped, OK add the 40% VAT on top of that but that is a pretty close to on target price. They are good guns, not in the same class as some of the above listed ones though.
 
Walther P99?

Right now, it's the front runner as my own carry piece. slash. HD gun.

I've given a lot of consideration to most of the others listed so far, and all around the P99 is looking like "it".

A year is a long time to wait though, and of everything listed and just about everything out there, a High Power comes the nearest to a "wait a year for it" gun. (not to rub it in, but I have 2 of them) They're classics.
 
..., and chances are that I'll carry one of those "other" guns on duty again next year.
Click to expand...
Then why not get a duplicate of your duty handgun or at least one with the same handling characteristics? Why train mainly with one gun and carry a different one?
There's an MP in our club. On duty he carries an HK P8 and privately he owns an HK USP9f. A dangerous combination as both guns "feel" the same, but the safety levers work in opposite ways. :(
 
Because... well, because I don't feel like letting some dumb undersecretary in the Ministry of the Interior decide which toys I buy :)

Seriously, I didn't rule Glocks out yet. And since I have no idea which agency I'll work for I don't know what I'll carry in the future. Then again, maybe I'm thinking too much about this issue...

A USP would be a nice choice but the trigger is... um, not so nice.

Maybe I'll just keep it simple and and go for a 1911. The feel of it and the trigger are hard to resist...


Regards,

Trooper
 
To all of those who recommended the Hi Power to me:

how would you describe its trigger pull in comparison with other popular semi autos? How about the handling characteristics and pointability?

I'll make sure to try them out if I get the chance but it would be neat to have an idea what we're talking about before...


Thanks,

Trooper
 
ONE GUN???? how can they be so cruel....


I say 9mm CZ but get a CZ 85 Combat....OH YEAH!!!

DA/SA and adjustable sights and trigger....

9mm....cheap and fun to shoot.
 
The "old school" approach to handguns used to be that your first should always be a revolver. Revolvers are generally easier to control, and to shoot well, much easier to maintain, and definitely the most reliable guns to shoot. It seems like that philosophy has been lost on a lot of the younger shooters.

Following your own stated criteria, the S&W 686 w/ 6" bbl. is the way to go, since it best meets your needs.
 
Is cost an issue for you
Click to expand...

You bet...

As much as I like the 1911 pattern, money-wise it would probably be the smartest decision to get a 9mm (which is quite affordable here).

Basically, I'd get the hell out of any such restrictive area, if I was really into guns.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this "restrictive area" is identical with Germany :mad:


Regards,

Trooper
 
Hmm, if you point me to a place where someone who never learned anything in his life but being a German cop will actually get a job... :D :D

Seriously, we're working to make life better for gunowners in Germany. We're only a few folks yet but we do what we can to educate the public and influence politics. I'm not giving up this country yet.

BTW I had a nice home defense and carry piece for years while I was on the force... my trusty P 225. I might actually get one of those if I find a nice one.

My wallet is trying to convince me to get a 9mm, and right now this probably the smartest solution. I will definitely own a 1911 someday but I want it to be a .45. And I want it to work every time I pull the trigger...


Regards,

Trooper
 
You could be a cop elsewhere, assuming a Green Card is forthcoming.

I will definitely own a 1911 someday but I want it to be a .45. And I want it to work every time I pull the trigger...
Click to expand...

Skip doing a trigger job on it past polishing the sear and hammer a little with a Dremel felt tip and a slightly lighter mainspring.


I'd get a CZ or BHP.
 
BTW I had a nice home defense and carry piece for years while I was on the force... my trusty P 225. I might actually get one of those if I find a nice one.
Click to expand...

Might be hard to improve on a Sig P225 if thats what you're used to...I have a P228, so I know
 
Trooper, I am not an expert by any means, but if you like Sigs the P-239 in 9mm weighs in empty at 25.2 oz, 1.25 inches in width and come with a 7 and 8 round mag. I paid $529.00 NIB for mine, it is a great carry gun, check it out
 
Trooper, I have some great memories of Germany. One of my fondest is buying a CZ75 at the Patch Barracks Rod & Gun Club in Stuttgart. A great gun at a great price!
 
"...all you experts..."?
Hey....I'm an expert now!
Do I get a raise?

"Expert"

"Ex" = a has been.
"spert" = a drip under pressure.
:D
 
Hey Trooper, seeing as how you're in Germany, this came to mind...
I own a Star model B that was made in late 1945. It was made to be shipped to the German army. Of course the war ended, but the gun did end up issued to German police afterwards. It would be interesting to know who the police officer in germany was that carried it.
I was a law enforcement officer myself for nearly 11 years.
 
Busdriver,

I just found a special edition of the German gun rag "Visier" about historical German police firearms in the back of my closet. It said that the Star B was issued to the State Police Depts. of Hesse and Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen) until the mid '60s.

If you're interested in your gun's history, let me know the serial no. and other markings. I might be able to find out a bit more.


Regards,

Trooper
 
Okay, Trooper, here goes....
As I said, it's a Star Model B. The serial number is 269087.
It has the "8mm" marking on the barrel visible inside the ejection port, which is the German indication for the 9mm caliber.
With the serial number, I was able to confirm that it was made in Spain in 1945 to be shipped to Germany. When it made it to Germany and when it was issued to an officer there I do not know.
I appreciate anything you can dig up.
God bless ya!:)
 
:rolleyes: Why do I keep fixing on your remarks about wanting to shoot PPC and target? If this is your primary motivation, then, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A REVOLVER! Yes, you can use a semi-auto to shoot PPC; but they'll make you stand on the far right of the line.

All S&W revolvers are not the same. After having blown up my model 19 due to a steady diet of 357mag.; and seen a number of other 'K' frames go out-of-time for the same reason, I'd opt for, at least, an, 'L' frame; and stay away from the, 'K'. (Unless you plan on shooting, only, 38spc.) One of my daily carry guns is a 686 with a 2 1/2" barrel; it's fitted with a nice set of Hogue, goncalo alves, 'orthopedic-style' grips; it is perfect as a carry weapon that, also, performs well at 25 yards! (I love this gun - it's one of my keepers.) I, also, shoot PPC with an S&W Model 27, 'N' frame with a 6" barrel. Just once in your life you should own a '20 series', 'N' frame; and, right now, you could probably pick one up at a discounted price. (The steel is the old mil. spec. ordinance carbon steel - very hard; and, in my opinion, better made than the new S&W's which I, also, own and use.) Another poster mentioned that a 4" barrel covers all the bases - I agree! If I had to choose only one barrel length, 4" would be it.

Yes, Pythons are nice, and expensive too. Don't get me wrong, I love the Python; but when it comes to brutal use, the old Smiths will take a whole lot more punishment and shoot a lot longer. (This is, 'Why' so many old-time police departments went with the S&W over Colt revolvers. The action parts are hardened, and the firing pin is on the hammer where it's less likely to wear or break.)

If you aren't, already, confused enough don't forget that the Browning P-35 is a true classic that will, not only, retain its value; but, if well maintained, it should actually appreciate. I carried one for several years; of all the large frame autos the, 'High Power' is the slimmest and most comfortable to carry. (You've, also, got 13 rounds to play with, too.) It's cousin the Colt 1911A-1 is another pistol that you MUST own, at least, once in your life. I'd go with the advice on the Dan Wesson Patriot, or else I'd look for an Imbel-framed, Springfield Armory 1911.

Personally, because you've indicated that purchase price is a limiting factor, I don't see a SIG P-210 in your future. That might not be a bad thing, though; this is, after all, a high-end target pistol in a peculiar 9mm chambering. What puzzles me about this thread is, 'Why' I haven't heard the name, 'Ruger' more? The GP-100 is a, 'built to last forever' revolver; out of the box, all it needs is a good action job and a set of Wolff gunsprings.

By the way, what's all this fuss about Glock frames and grip angle? I'll be among the first to admit that there are a lot of things wrong with Glock pistols; but the 9 x 19's are among the best pistols in Glock's line. (My other daily carry piece is a G-21; but, let me stress, I understand the strengths and weaknesses of the, 'La Francaise' design. I am keenly aware of what my 45acp Glock can and cannot do. Would I recommend a Glock Model 17 or 19 without reservation; yes, I would; and, once you learn how to, 'index' a Glock trigger, you, just, might learn to love it as much as I do. (All my Glocks are standard 5 1/2# pull; they let-off plenty easy; and I have, yet, to discover any need to go to the 3 1/2# connectors.) So that you understand, 'Where' I'm coming from I own a pair of BEAUTIFUL, custom-built, Colt, Series 70, 1911's; and in a gunfight I, personally, would be more comfortable with my Glock Model 21's. There are quite a few custom-tuned triggers around my house; but, in my entire shooting career, I have never used a better combat trigger than the standard 5 1/2# Glock trigger. (This afternoon I had one of the Colts and one of the Model 21's out at the range. At 7 1/2, 12, and 16 1/2 yards X's and 9 rings, simply, disappear; and most of my shooting, today, was with the Glock. Which reminds me: My G-21's are, also, customized: Wolff steel recoil guide rod and standard weight 17# spring, Mepro-Light night sights, and Shok-Buf recoil gasket - that's it!

Ultimately everyone's buying suggestions come down to the proposition; 'What would I do if ... .' Well, if I were in Germany, my first choice would be something in 9mm. (By the way, CZ makes a very durable, well-designed pistol. You may be overlooking it simply because, right now, you've got a case of, 'wanderlust' in your eyes.) If PPC and target really are priorities, then, 38/357 would be at the top of my list. Like so many of the other posters, here, I'd suggest you make up your mind what you want to do; then, choose the caliber and the pistol to suit the intended use. Good luck!

PS: I posted your signature line on my screen saver; and, now, my wife won't let me into the bedroom. What did I do wrong? 'A MAN CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY GUNS, TOO MANY WOMEN, OR TOO MUCH AMMUNITION!' Have I got it right? What's wrong with this. Why is this woman being so unreasonable?

Regards,

Arc Angel
This is my first post at The High Country! ;)
 
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Good, well thought-out stuff, Arc Angel; welcome to The High Road.

trooper, I confess that I've no help to offer. I like all of the main candidates that have been discussed here, except that Glocks don't seem to fit my hands as well as I'd like (and they go, "sproing," too). I'm going through "which serious handgun to buy first," myself. Which handgun do you see yourself happily keeping forever, even when you've given the rest of your guns to your grandchildren in (one hopes) the gun-friendly days of the distant future?
 
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