New Gunnie needs advise. Please help me choose 2 or 3

[prelaw09]

Hello everyone. This is a bit long winded, but please read. I could use some advise.

I have been a lurker here for a while and finally decided to join up. I have been a long time shooter, but being a broke student, have never owned a firearm. After reading a lot, renting at ranges, and asking shooters, a lot have recommended this site.

So, here’s the deal- I am getting a $3100 tax refund and I want to use it to start my firearms collection. Normally, I use my refund to take a vacation, but seeing how the laws may be changing after November’s elections, I have decided to start my collection. An AR15 is a must. It is the first thing that I am buying. Because I live in NJ, I need a permit for each handgun that I buy. I have 3 permits, so I can buy up to 3 pistols. Because I have always wanted to buy guns I have kept notes whenever I have shot different guns. Based on my notes, what do you recommend. What else should I look at? Here is what I have shot:

1. Colt 1911 .45- I loved this gun… she was sexy. It felt good in the hand and pointed well. Follow up shots were fast and on target. It kicked a little more than most and the sights were hard to see. Accuracy was average.


2. SIG 226 9mm- I liked this gun. It shot well and felt good in the hand. Follow up shots were a little faster than my average. I did not like the SIG line and notch sights. Recoil was minimal. Accuracy was better than average.

3. SIG 239 .40 S&W- I really liked the way this gun felt. It pointed naturally. I really liked it until I pulled the trigger. It kicked a lot. Follow up shots… um, what are follow up shots? Also, I did not like the SIG line/ notch sights. Accuracy was good for first shot then got worse.

4. SIG 229 9mm- I really, really liked this one. Super comfy in the hand and pointed well. Fast follow up shots. This one had 3-dot night sights that I liked. Accuracy was very good.

5. SIG 220 .45- This gun was very nice. It shot very well, but felt average in the hand. Recoil felt less than the Colt 1911. Accuracy was very good. Again, line/notch sights did not work for me.

6. Para Ordinance P14-45 .45- I liked this gun a lot. It felt too fat in the hand until I shot it. While shooting it felt great. Recoil felt greater than the Colt 1911, but accuracy was awesome. Quick follow up shots. Sights were 3-dot (not night) and worked well.

7. HK USP 45 .45- This gun did not feel good or bad in the hand, but once shooting felt like an extension of my hand. I point, shoot, and wow… the bullet hits exactly where I aimed. Recoil felt very low. Follow up shots were natural and very fast. Accuracy was great. This gun felt very sturdy, but boxy. Sights were 3-dot (not night).

8. Kimber Raptor .45- this gun was awesome. She was sexy It felt great in the hand, shot great, accuracy was great. The sights were 3-dot night sights with the rear in green and the front was orange… just awesome. Recoil was less than all other 45’s except the HK. My only complaints were that the grip on one side dug into my hand and the main spring housing was plastic (cheap). Probably too expensive for my first go round.

9. Browning HP. 9mm- I really liked this one. A very handsome looking pistol. It felt the best of all in the hand and pointed better than any. Recoil was negligible. Accuracy was very, very good. The trigger was gritty and heavy. Follow up shots were some what slow because of the trigger. Also, did not like the adjustable sights.

10. Beretta 92FS 9mm- I really liked this gun before I shot it. I really wanted to love it… but, it just felt blah. It shot well. Accuracy was very, very good. Follow up shots were quick and easy. The sights were 3-dot (non night), but it just was blah… run of the mill… not special.

11. Beretta Model 70 .380- I liked this gun a lot until I fired it… then I feared it. No other gun was as harsh to shoot. It kicked like a cracked out mule on roids. Me no likey.

12. Glock 19 9mm- Hated this gun in the hand. Hated the looks. Hated the trigger. I wanted to hate this one. First shot was dead on. Next was too. As were all others. Very easy to shoot. Follow up shots were fast and easy. I hated this gun but it shot well and was easy to shoot. I still don’t like it. Hey- love is an illogical emotion.

13. Glock (I forget the model) compact .40 S&W- see above. Same deal.

14. Colt Python 357 mag- I. LOVE. THIS. GUN. She was soooooo sexxxy. I shot the 6 inch barrel. Everything was perfect. Trigger- perfect. Finish- perfect. Accuracy- did I fire 5 shots or 6… I can’t tell because they all went through the same hole. Remember the hottest girl that you ever slept with? Yeah, this was the firearms equivalent of that. Too rich for my blood right now. Ok, I don’t want to talk about it any more.

15. S&W 676 .357- I really liked this one- not as much as the Python, but hey, that’s a tough act to follow.

16. SIG 245 .45- This gun was great. The trigger was smooth and recoil was manageable. It was a bit small for a 45, but I still liked it.

17. Ruger 22/45 .22- I like this gun OK, it was fun but it’s a .22. No love affair here. What a pain in the arse to clean.

18. Browning Buck mark .22- See above.

19. Walther 99c .40- I did not like this gun at all until I shot it. At close range the rounds went right on target. It was scary accurate at close range. The trigger broke unexpectedly and felt good.

Last, ad certainly not least, possibly the holly grail:

20. Springfield 1911 in 9mm. Just awesome. Everything to love about the 1911 but with basically NO recoil. Follow up shots as fast as the trigger can be pulled. Just amazing. I loved this one, she was fantastic. The only thing was that some folks think that 9 rounds of 9mm is waek.

 

[Isher]

You forgot CZ's.

Check them out;

You might be pleasantly surprised.

Oh. Vis a vis AR15 - please check out CZ VZ58.

Way better carbine.

isher

 

[prelaw09]

Isher

Thanks for the info. I have not seen any CZ's for rent, but they look nice. If I have the chance I will shoot one.

As far as the AR goes, I think that it is a must because 223 is still pretty cheap to shoot and as long as the army uses them there will be (hopefully) parts available as well as people to fix them.

 

[Big Bill]

Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 mag

Springfield XD

Glock - 17, 21 or 22 - IMHO - a must have!

 

[Isher]

prelaw -

The VZ 58 runs 7.62X39, which is pretty much a world wide cartridge.

And, as a carbine, it beats the crap out of the Ak's.

The .223 is far more limited in distribution.

isher

 

[BCRider]

A near competitor for the Python may be an older S&W Model 27.

I've also shot a Model 19 and just recently closed a deal on one and it should be here in a week to 10 days. It's another superb revolver. Both are older, stylin' blue steel beauties.

No question that a nice shooting 1911 is a great one to get. It's really a classic. Not cheap to shoot though but as a deal where you shoot a few magazines each time out it'll be fine and keep costs under control.

A 9mm or .40 is a better regular and main shooting gun if you seriously do not like the .22 experience. 9mm being a little lower cost but not by a lot.

I tried a lot of pistols and found that I pretty much matched your expereinces. Liked the Sig, the Beretta was nice but didn't pluck at the heart. REALLY liked the Baby Eagle and from that I think that the EAA Witness CZ clones would also be really nice. But in the end I got a chance to try a CZ Shadow that belonged to a friend. It was love at first magazine and after the session I found out that a new one was arriving in the next few days and it had no one's name on it. I've been super happy ever since.

I hate to say it but of the plastic guns the Glock 17 really is a nice shooter along with the M&P 9. But I just didn't like the overall feel of the plastic guns. Up here we can't carry though so weight isn't the issue it can be down south.

 

[prelaw09]

thanks for the replies. keep'em coming please

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Get what you LOVE, then get what you like, it's your collection. From what you wrote, I'd say buy the Python, then which of the .45's you like the best, then either the Browning Hi Power, or the SA 1911 in 9mm. It's YOUR collection, so get what ya like to shoot and enjoy owning. (I'd recommend all "classics" in a starter batch, which would be Python, 1911, Hi-power, but it's not my collection!) All of the handguns you mentioned are good, and you identified the ones you found difficult to clean or ugly, etc. BTW the Browning Hi Power trigger will work much better when you remove the magazine disconnect.


LD

 

[ArmedBear]

I like this gun OK, it was fun but it’s a .22. No love affair here.

That will change really quick, with a little more shooting experience.

If you don't buy a .22 now, put some money away because you'll be buying one soon.

I just started shooting in pistol matches. Some guys with decades of experience and huge collections spend more time and money on their .22 pistols than anything else.

 

[CDH]

There's lots of good guns as mentioned, but I'd throw in a little general advice to buy up the ones first that will probably be outlawed again by the reauthorization of the Assault Weapons Ban.

So grab any good AR-15 first, and then all the high-capacity pistols you can, and be sure to buy all the extra high-capacity mags for the pistols and AR that you can now, especially for the AR.

Most revolvers should be safe for quite a while as well as under 10-round capacity pistols, so wait a bit before shopping for any of those. You can wait to buy any .22 guns as well because they won't be affected by a new AWB, but be sure to include some fun ones on your list for later because .22 plinking and target shooting is some of the most fun you're going to have with a deadly weapon.

Now to my specific recommendations, keeping in mind that this is just my .02....

Bushmaster 16" Carbine AR-16 and about 50 magazines (30's and 20's mixed evenly). Get it now while you can have all the "evil" features.

Any of the high-cap Springfield XD pistols... you pick the model and caliber. (My personal opinion is that the XD's are better than the Glocks, but go Glock if you want. Just make sure to get some high-cap polymers whatever the brand.)

A Beretta 92 high-cap pistol for no other reason than that's it's the official US Military side-arm and it uses high-cap mags.

Then pick up a couple of really nice self-defense carry guns. I'd make a no-lock S&W 642 my first purchase, and then go "high class" with a Rohrbaugh R9S Stealth... expensive, but worth it, and one of the littlest and easy to carry 9mm pistols you can buy right now. If you get a Rohrbaugh, feel free to feel smug. You paid for the right.
If the Rohrbaugh is too expensive for your tastes, go the other way with a Ruger LCP. "Only" a .380, but a very light and easy to hide carry piece for just a little over $300.

There's lots of others I could recommend, but I'd start with those for the stated reasons, and once you've taken care of the basics as noted above, you have got to get yourself a Colt 1911 stainless Commander... "just because".

 

[Thomas Garrett]

How about a Ruger Mini-14 .223, Like the Stainless Ranch rifle, alot cheaper then the AR and shoots just as accurate if not better. and you can modify to your specs.(and alot cheaper), so you can save you money for better pistols, the .357 Python is a must ($1000.00-$1200.00 on gunbroker.com), and a Springfield .45, go Mil-spec a great platform for modifications. and yes, a small (carry) high capicity mid-caliber automatic. and have money left over for a Used Buckmark .22ll. and ammunition. Just my 2 cents worth. Have Fun!

 

[CWL]

Welcome to THR prelaw09,

Purchase what you think you will keep forever. .22lrs will probably survive any ban you think will happen so stick with the larger calibers.

Think of firearms as tools, just tools. Mentally separate "sexy" from tools you plan to own & use. Choose based on respect, performance & reliability.

 

[bpl]

I'll 2nd CDH's advise - get the AR-15 and a bunch of 20-30 round magazines (at least 10-20 if you can find them), hi-cap 9mm or two and lots of mags. If you can find one, I'd get a Browning Hi-Power (BHP) and some 13 or 15 round mags for it, and a Glock/XD/M&P or Sig226/229 with spare mags. Expect to wait months for all of the above!

The BHP trigger can be significantly improved by removing the mag disconnect (Mag safety), but a gunsmith can also do a good job to it even without removing it. The BHP trigger can be hit or miss between specimens, which is its only shortcoming in my opinion. Otherwise its a fabulous handgun!

I'd save the .45ACP for later, as most have 10rnd or less magazines and are thus much less likely to be affected by an upcoming ban. I'd save the revolvers and .22lrs for later also.

 

[MikePGS]

Also if your investigating polymer pistols might I suggest the M&P? Fits in the hand perfectly and recoil with 9mm is non-existent.

 

[prelaw09]

Thanks all

Thank you everyone for your help and ideas. I should have mentioned that I have shot a few rifles. I was just more curious about the pistols because the handgun permits have an expiration date.

I would love to stock up on 20 and 30 round AR mags, but in NJ we are limited to 15 round mags. There is a company here that makes them.

Here are the rifles that I shot in addition to the AR:

Ruger 10/22- this was a fun little rifle and I will get one if there is any cash left over or soon there after.

Browing BAR 30-06 (the hunting rifle)- I liked this rifle a lot. Didn’t kick too hard and accuracy was good, but it was pretty heavy.

SKS- didn’t like this rifle. It felt cheesy, like shooting a 2x4.

Marlin 336 30-30. Nice, light, handy little gun. Would like one some day.

AK- similar to the SKS feelings. Did not like the way that the mag locked in. also, not sure about the NJ legal status of SKS and AK.

Shotguns- I fired quite a few. Double barrel (don’t know the make), pump (Rem 870), semi auto (Rem 1100, I think). Shotguns are nice, but I will save that purchase for later.

 

[SRT1]

If you can, you should check out the Dan Wesson line of pistols (through CZ now). VERY high quality in fit and finish, no MIM, accurate and fairly priced. A new CBOB can be had for around $850 new if you look. Worth a look.
Good luck!
Sarge

 

[bpl]

Get yourself an AR-15 first, then worry about the other rifles later. 10/22, Marlin 336, etc. aren't gonna be banned anytime soon!

Oh, when it comes time to get a 30-30, handle a Winchester Model 94 - its nicer, lighter and handier!

 

[WarHall]

All good guns, All good replies -

But, the budget is the budget - A really great AR could eat that up. Try to go middle of the road with your first, and buy mags and ammo as well. Remember, a gun is just a fancy club without ammo. Might want to get into reloading as well. this will solve the 'other problem' that was on your list of complaints about some of the pistols -work up your own loads! Personally, I wouldn't waste mt money on a 9mm anything - the reason they seems so 'sweet and get back on target so fast is the lack of power in that round (no flames, please, PERSONAL OPINION HERE!). But, since I didn't see it on your list, I've shot the new XD 9 and besides having the highest 9mm capacity ever, it has lots of standard features that you mentioned. The new package includes a new-fangled mag loader built right into the mag holder (didn't try it, seemed odd). So, that my 2 cents. Like the gut who sold me my M&P AR-15 said, "when the military goes down, there will be plenty of ammo and parts laying around!" Me: ***!?

 

[knightmoves51]

Have you guys forgotten about the original workhorse...the Smith model 10?Make that your first handgun purchase. and save a few hundred bucks...Mike

 

[whited]

.

After reading your brief review of each gun, it sounds to me as though you
would be most happy with:

Sig 229
USP 45
Colt Python

If it were my choice, I would definitely get the Python and pick one of the
others. There are no bad combinations of the guns, so just get what
shoots best for you.

 

[JonF]

Prelaw, Where in NJ are you and where do you go to shoot/rent? I'm in Monmouth county area and frequent Shoreshot.

 

[crebralfix]

Forget the 1911 until you know what you're doing and have a bunch of cash laying around to "invest".

Why the 1911 needs TLC:
http://www.10-8performance.com/id2.html

Based upon YOUR reviews, no 1911's, and limits of cash:

HK USP 45
SIG P229
SIG P245
Browning Hi-Power
SIG P226
Glock 19 or 23
Walther 99C

But, of the guns to get, I'm going to recommend EITHER:

Glock 19/23 (choose your caliber) or
SIG P229 or P226

The reason is you can easily get 22 Long Rifle conversion kits for them. Given today's price of ammunition, this becomes important for frequent training. Additionally, Airsoft duplicates are available for these guns. Airsoft is useful for both backyard practice AND force on force gun fight drills.

If anything, the Glock may be the way to go because you can also get the Glock 26 or 27. All your gear for the 19/23 will work with this gun...including magazines.

Additionally, Glock wins in the MAINTENANCE area. For approximately $100, you can get most of the small parts and all the springs. A $25 manual contains everything you need to work on the gun...you just won't be able to fix a frame, barrel, or slide problem. Try that with a SIG (without their armorer's course).

I also recommend double action without a manual safety. This is important for speed in case of flubbing the safety deactivation. My instructor was a 1911 guy until he messed up his draw...then...he got it.

 

[wrxguyusa]

If you are in NJ and have no plan to CC in the future I would stick to classic steel guns.

1911 in .45, many run just fine from the box.
Hi-power, 92fs, or Sig in 9mm (whatever fits best)
Some kind of .22

Glocks is a great carry guns, very reliable, but not near as enjoyable to shoot as the above IMO. It's the near perfect compromise, but yet still a compromise.

I have actually shot all the guns listed above and own a Glock 19, 1911, Sig P6. My Dad has a hi-power and another 1911.

 

[shotgunjoel]

Alright, my suggestions from your list would be: you need a .45, 1911s are great but can get expensive, especially to feed. On the HK USP, have you looked at 9mm? It would be cheaper to shoot for sure. You need a .22, especially if you want to do some cheap shooting (you said you were a college student?). Have you looked at the Walther P22? Ah yes, the Python, great gun, but it might be a little more costly than what you can afford at the moment. Also remember when you buy these that you also want to have money for ammo, guns aren't much fun without ammo.

 

[easyrider604]

1. Colt 1911 .45- I loved this gun… she was sexy. It felt good in the hand and pointed well. Follow up shots were fast and on target. It kicked a little more than most and the sights were hard to see. Accuracy was average.

Great choice. Bewildering array of brands/models to choose from. If you meant the Government model "Colt" brand, that's fine.

S&W 676 .357- I really liked this one- not as much as the Python, but hey, that’s a tough act to follow.

Did you mean the S&W 686? Another great choice. Had a Python in the 90's, never liked it. Probably because my two 686's would get jealous.

An AR15 is a must.

In another life, had the opportunity to regularly shoot an M16A1 and the Commando version in both semi and full auto. They were fine, until I tried a Ruger Mini-14, with the original wood and steel folding stock. Not as accurate as the M16s but adequately accurate and shooting it was way more fun. Oh yes, I do not like guns made from plastic or aluminum.

In your position, I'd get a Mini-14 or preferably Mini-30 ranch in stainless.
No bragging rights potential but cheap ammo (Mini-30), decent accuracy, simplicity made it my personal choice for a SHTF rifle. Another great, reliable rifle is the SKS, but IMO must be the ugliest rifle.

BTW, you'd have enough cash leftover to buy a nice Remington 870, as well as a reloading outfit if you are so inclined (because feeding your new babies would be expensive).