Allies/Axis WWII calibers

[BarnsBeware]

My friend and I were trying to think up all the calibers used or deployed in WWII, (daunting task - we were bored ), and here's what we've got.

Allies:
.45 ACP
9mm - (I'm fuzzy on this one, as I thought it was invented during WWII by the Germans - did Browning put out the 9 here at the same time).?
.30 carbine
.30-06
.303 British
7.62 x 54 R - (Russians used this, right?)

Axis:
9mm Luger
.30 Mauser/ 7.63 (now 7.62 Tokarev??)
6.5 Arisaka
7.7 Arisaka
7 x 57 Mauser
8 x 57 Mauser


We know things are missing, or screwed up above. What are we leaving out?? I thought for sure there were more pistol calibers used... And were there any common calibers (I thought for sure 7.62 x 54 R...). Any revolvers popular? What did the Brits use besides .303??? Clear us up!!

 

[Nightcrawler]

9mm - (I'm fuzzy on this one, as I thought it was invented during WWII by the Germans - did Browning put out the 9 here at the same time).?

The 9mm Luger cartridge debued in the Luger pistol prior to the turn of the 20th Century. The British and Commonwealth used it in pistols (a few) and submachine guns.

Allies:

.38 S&W
.38 Special
.455 Webley
.50BMG
.55 Boys
.22LR
7.62x25mm
12,7x108mm
14.5x115mm (I think it's 115mm)
7.62x39mm (very end of the war)

Axis

6.5mm Cacarno
7.65mm (.32ACP)
8mm Nambu
7mm Nambu
7.92x33mm Kurtz (STG44 only)

 

[MrMurphy]

United States:

.45 ACP and .38 Special in pistols.

.45 ACP in submachine guns

.30-06 in rifles, the light machine guns,etc.

.50 BMG in just about anything that flew as well as infantry HMGs and tank guns.

12ga in shotguns for guarding prisoners and special purpose use.

Britain and the Commonwealth countries (Australia Canada, India, etc).

.38/200 (.38 S&W) in pistols as well as limited use of the .455 Webley and .45 ACP. Some 9mm in Hi-Powers but limited.

9mm in submachine guns (Sten) with limited use of .45 Thompsons by Commandos, LRDG, SAS, and others.

.303 in rifles, Vickers heavy machine guns, and Bren LMGs. Lots of aerial .303 use as well.

Limited .50 cal use in aircraft and tanks etc.

Edit: almost forgot the Russians.....
In pistols, 7.62X25mm as well as submachine guns.
In rifles and light machine guns (like the DP28) and heavy machine guns (Maxims) 7.62X54R just kept on soldiering on (and still does).
In heavy machine guns and aircraft the 12.7mm saw lots of use.




Germany and her related European allies (Romania, Hungary, Spain, etc)

.32 ACP, .380 and 9mm in pistols (several dozen types) and even limited Kriegsmarine use of the Norwegian License-made M1914 .45 ACP clone of our 1911 (Only a few hundred likely).

9mm in submachine guns.

7.92X57mm in rifles, LMGs, aerial machine guns, coax guns, etc.

They had a 13mm MG round but it mostly was used in aircraft (some ME-109 and FW190 models had pairs of them) generally, they liked the 20mm.

Japan:

The little 8mm Nambu round in pistols.

The 6.5mm Type 38 rifle and 7.7mm Type 99 rifle served side by side as the 99 never quite replaced the 38. Both rounds saw use in LMGs, the 7.7 was also used as backups to the 20mm on most Japanese aircraft or as tail/top guns occasionally.


Italy started out with 9mm Glisenti and .380 pistols, eventually upgraded to 9mm Para in some parts but .32 and .380 for others.

They started out with 6.5mm rifles and LMGs and eventually went to 7.7mm around when the war kicked off so both saw service in the Mannlicher Carcano series.

Their Beretta SMGs were all 9mm Parabellum and well made (The Germans liked the 38/42 so much they bought a mess of them to supplement the MP40 production and actualy outfitted some units with them exclusively for those who needed SMGs).

 

[azrael]

9mm=1903 iirc

did anyone mention the 7.92#33?? or is it 32?? well its 30something!

 

[BarnsBeware]

Yeah... we only missed a couple then....

THANKS!!!! This will help solve more than a few arguments. I just may hit "print screen" when I get to work tomorrow!

Thanks again!!

 

[entropy]

7.62 Nagant
7.65 Luger (30 Luger, not Mauser, used in Mauser C96's)
16 ga. 2 9/16" (European 16 ga. Used in drillings issued to Luftwaffe pilots early in the war.)
9.3x72R, in the same weapons.
US also issued .380 Colt M1903's to General Officers, though most preferred the M1911A1, or in Patton's case, the M1873, which means we should probably include .45 LC.
Who used the 7x57?
7.65x53 Mauser (Belgium)
8mm Lebel (France, both sides)
9mm Largo (If you are including Spain as a combatant nation. I thought they were officially neutral, but assisted Germany on the sly.)
7.5mm FMAS, used in the MAS 36 rifle and the M24/29 LMG
10.25 mm (IIRC) Reichsrevolver
We're getting pretty obscure here, but I know there are more!

 

[MikeB]

I think Ya'll missed the .30 Carbine.

Also Japanese Officers supplied their own side arms, so they used a lot of different pistol calibers.

 

[Ky Larry]

IIRC,Gen. Patton carried a .357 mag and a SAA Army in .45 LC.

 

[Checkman]

German 45's

The Norwegians contemplated issuing the 1911 in the 20's to it's military. Norway either purchased several hundred from Colt or made it's own, not sure, but when the Germans occuppied Norway they issued the 1911's to some of the occupation troops. The Germans were chronically short of handguns throughout the war. So in addition to all the other rounds used by the Axis in WW2 we have to include the 45 ACP - believe it or not.

 

[MrMurphy]

Norway made license built clones, as did Argentina of the 1911.


I didn't include one-offs like Patton's guns and survival guns for pilots.

Spain sent the "Blue Division" mostly of hard core fascists etc to Russia with the Germans, mostly to get them out of the country and get Hitler off Spain's back about jumping into the war. They had the longest single continous advance in history I think it was, all on foot (I'll look it up) basically they never stopped advancing for about a year.

 

[NonServiam]

Checkman, from http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/M/M1911.htm

Before World War II a small number of Colt where produced under licence at the norwegian weapon factory Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk (this colts where known as "kongsbergcolts"). After the german ocupation of Norway the production continued, but this time with a swastikamark next to the serialnumber. These colts are highly regarded with collectors.

There were also sterile Kongberg Colt being made by workers during the war, and smuggled out to the resistance. Named from the method of smuggling, they are often called "Lunchbox Colts".

On the .455-note, my uncle carried a Colt New Service in .455 Webley during WWII, while trying to persuade our German vistors to end their northern vacation. It was from one of the many British drops supplying the Norwegian resistance with arms and equipment. It is now in my possesion, and a fine revolver. Don't shoot is as much as I would like, though ...

 

[GigaBuist]

Don't forget 8x56 for the Axis troops either. The Steyr m95 was issued to some non-frontline troops or so I gather.

I've got a little tub of ammo with a Nazi eagle and the date "1938" on it. Shoots like crap. Need better stuff. Some of it's dated 1940 and has what looks like Chinese or Jap markings.

 

[MikeB]

Oh yeah, as for the 7.7 Jap.

There are two different calibers. One for machine guns and one for the rifles. I believe the MG version had a wider rim. The difference is slight. If I have time later, I'll dig out both and take a picture.

 

[RWK]

Also, selected personnel (including General Officers) were issued .380 (9x17) Colt autoloaders (M1903) as personal sidearms.

 

[Checkman]

Nonserviam

Thanks for the info. I was familar with the Norwegian 45's, but not all of the details. Is it true that on the Norwegian 45's it says 11.25 mm on the slide instead of 45?

 

[NonServiam]

Indeed, Checkman. "11.25 m/m. AUT. PISTOL. M/1914"

A lot of details are lost on this picture, but at least you can see the "25" part of "11.25"

 

[Checkman]

11.25 mm

It just sounds impressive dosen't it? Like something out of a James Bond movie.

"No Mr. Bond this is a 11.25 mm handgun with Platinum bullets. I assure you just one hit anywhere on your body and you will expire instantly."

From now on I'm carring an 11.25 mm instaed of a whimpy 45.

 

[Jim K]

There were three 7.7mm Japanese cartridges. The rimless was the standard rifle cartridge after 1939 (although many 6.5 rifles and MGs remained in service). The semi-rimmed was used in the heavy Type 92 MG (strip fed), a Hotchkiss copy. The later Type 1 MG could use either the rimless or the semi-rimmed. The 7.7 rimmed was the .303 British under another name, used in the Japanese Navy's license-built Lewis guns.

The Italians used rifles in 6.5 and later in 7.35 (not 7.7). Ammunition confusion got so bad that most 7.35 rifles were converted (or sometimes re-converted) to 6.5. The Italians did use a 7.7mm in their Breda aircraft machinegun; it also is dimensionally identical to the .303 British, but much hotter. Use of 7.7 Italian can be very dangerous in an SMLE MkIII, and only a bit less so in a Rifle No. 4.

Jim

 

[SDC]

Two HMG cartridges I haven't seen mentioned yet are the .50 Vickers and the 13.2x99mm Hotchkiss; the UK used .50 Vickers in a scaled-up .303-pattern Vickers, and both the Japanese and Italians used the 13.2mm round in their heavy machineguns (Type 99 and Breda 31).

 

[cracked butt]

Non 100% sure of this, but Finland may have used a very small number of 6.5x55's against the Soviets.

 

[entropy]

I left out the Finnish calibers! 9mm Lahti at least. I consider the Winter War to be a separate action from WWII, so that could explain it. Yeah, That's why!

 

[Gabe]

7.92x57 Mauser was an allied caliber with the Chinese. They used Mauser 98, VB-26, M1919 and Bren chambered for this round.

7.65 French Long, this was a close copy of the 30 Pedersen.

6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, Greek service cartridge.

 

[Marko Kloos]

8x56R Hungarian, chambered in the Steyr-Mannlicher straight-pull carbines used by Italy and German REMF units in some numbers. The ammunition for my Steyr trunk carbine was loaded in 1939-1940 by the Germans, sporting swastika headstamps and all.

 

[BluesBear]

Yes the Norwegians were making their own .45s.

The Nazis took over Kongsberg and built some too.

The 9mm dates back to 1901 and was first used in the 1902 model Luger pistols.

Also don't forget the Germans used the 7.65mm Auto (.32acp)
The British still used some .455 Auto pistols.
The US Army Air Corps used the .22 Hornet and the .410 in the M? survival weapon.

 

[BarnsBeware]

...WOW... thats a lot of calibers...

So, to put all of this into context, what would you pick as the 10 most used calibers for each side? I had no idea there would be this many...