Almost had to shoot a man today:

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Ezekiel said:
"I understand your point."

His life was "threatened" because he bitched about hearing things in a tenament dwelling with paper-thin walls.

Sounds like an issue that does not require firearms.
It's obvious you've not lived in SoCal recently.. Example.
Knuclehead kill car salesmen and kid over their girlfriend's
simply buying the wrong car. Yea it IS that crazy out here !

Doc has every right to be concerned & armed !

On Aug. 8, a man who was unhappy with his girlfriend's car purchase allegedly shot and killed two people at a dealership in Colton, Calif. about 60 miles east of Los Angeles. Later that day, the suspect allegedly shot and killed a 16-year-old boy before police shot and arrested him.
 
the nosey, hallucinating neighbor will say she saw me spraying the water

What makes you think it's a simple case of mistaken idenity? That could be your culprit. If she's dishonest enough to lie then she is evil enough to vandalize. Something motivates her to point the finger at you and what better reason than to cover her own tracks. Isn't that why people lie? To avoid getting caught?

I get mad when falsly accused. Nobody has tried heaping that on top of a weapon in hand and verbal threats against my life on my property. I'd give them one opportunity to leave my property. But then I don't live in an apartment. Come to think of it I don't blindly open my door to knocks or live in California either.

The fact that you need to point out living in California negates our recommendations in advance should be telling you a few things.
 
Call the police.

Let me make myself clear. Call the cops. As others have said, the party who initiates LE contact is usually considered the agrieved party. Also as others said, the neighbor who "saw" you do it is likely guilty of placing the hose in her window.

Furthermore, make a formal complaint to the apartment complex manager.

Ezekiel, I normally ignore immature posters, but you're being a complete ass. Doczinn acted like an adult, said something to the offending party who went and got her boyfriend, rather than getting her lazy butt out of bed when the alarm goes off. I lived in an apartment for a year after I got out of the service. Common decency is not exclusive to rural areas. My guess is you'd be a pain in the neck neighbor anywhere.
 
Funny, Ezekial, the closest I ever came to shooting somebody was in a rural area. (Sutherland, Utah, population, uhh... about nothing).

And he was my neighbor. :)
 
911

I would shoot somebody who came at me iwth a golf club, but I am at a loss to understand why you did not dial 911.

Even the worst response times would have had an officer arriving while this guy was still at your closed door with a golf club "in hand."

At that point any accusations he made would not have mattered much.
 
what MB said

Even if there is a story that you sprayed water into her apartment, how silly would "golf lover" look trying to explain to 5-0 what he was doing at your door several hours later with a single driver in hand?
 
DocZinn -

Sir, the only question that I have is you mentioned that you were going to open the door:

At one point he said we was going to kill me. I reached for the door handle, intending to open it so he would see the holstered pistol and hopefully leave. He cocked the driver back and got ready to swing. At the same time, my wife stopped me from opening the door.

You're in a tactically superior position inside the apartment, so why give this lug an opportunity to swing at you? Stay inside, call 911, and if the jackass comes through the window or door, THEN let him have it with the .45. Take your wife out for dinner and give her a hug, she's a smart woman for stopping you from opening the door. I have the suspicion that had you opened that door, the guy would have come in swinging and you'd have had to put him down.

Just my thoughts.

PS. Did you have a good backstop? Not impugning your actions at all, I'm just wondering. If I had to shoot a guy coming through my front door, he'd be in front of the door to my buddy's apartment. I know where all the totally safe backstops in my apartment are (south and west only) and try to stay aware of them. Plus my building walls are brick, so it would probably stop 00 buck if I shot north or east.
 
Doc,
One word of advise to you sir, when dealing with the Police, ALWAYS remain calm and rational to the point of sedate. Let the other guy act like the crazy one. This will go a very long way for your creditability.

Not only will the police want to hear your side of the story, they will be more inclined to believe you before they believe the other guy if you are the cooperative/rational one. NEVER make threats, talk about defending your self or mention the word gun. ASK the officer for his advise on how to PROTECT your wife and yourself in the home and away. Lead him to the CCW answer. Any advise he gives you he will put in his report. After that, get a copy of the report and include it in your CCW application.

Also, if possible, get a restraining order. Include that in your CCW app as well.

Well, I guess that was more than one word LOL. Just my 2¢.
 
too bad your in california and not a state with a Make-my-Day law like montana! haha

And that would have changed things how? The Castle Doctrine allows for self-defense without retreating first. In this situation, the final stage in the confrontation would have been when DocZinn opened the door and effectively invited the attack. The law you cite has no application.
 
DocZinn,

You have my sympathies.
I'm a San Diegan too.
We might as well be "Shall NOT Issue", given the way Kolender (does not) issue CCWs.

:(

Makes me glad we're moving to TX.

Where are you in SD?
We're in a "safe" neighborhood (Hillcrest) but previously were in a dodgier Cityheights area.

Neighborhoods in our city tend to run hit or miss, and of course, crime and asshats are everywhere.

PS: I agree. Call the cops, file a report.


B.
 
Dealing with bad neighbors sucks but the nice thing about most apartments is you can complain to the manager. I always thought knocking on the door was the honorable thing to do but it can lead to vandalism of your property and, as you found out violence.

Honestly I think you came nowhere near "almost having to shoot a man". If you were that worried you or your wife should have called the police. I know I would have. Then I would have sat in my lazyboy behind my locked door with my shotgun in my lap in case the guy came through a window.

In my town the cops would have been there in time to see the guy with his golf club.
 
I'm amazed at how people behave regarding their neighbors and little, petty annoyances. It's a noise, for pete's sake, and it only happens a few minutes before you're going to get up anyway. Is it really that big a deal that you have to go SAY something to the neighbor about? Do you complain to the city because the sound of the bus roaring down the street wakes you up, or the garbage truck interrupts your downey slumber? I've experienced these things, and learned to accept it as part of the cost of living in the place I chose. It's a city, cities are noisy, if you're beyond coping then get yourself some earplugs. or move.

Alright, let's say the noise is "different" than normal city/apartment noise and you just really need it to stop. You go talk to the neighbor, and you use words like "well, it goes off while we're trying to sleep, and could you maybe move it away from the window so the noise won't wake us, or put it on a softer setting, or shut it off promptly? That would help us get better rest and we'd be very thankful. We really appreciate it..." You don't use words like "hey, could you shut that f*'n thing off when it goes off, you're waking the whole d*mn neighborhood, we really don't appreciate it". You talk about it, not gripe about it to them. Twice should be enough, doing the same thing both times, not escallating one iota. After that, it needs to go in a written letter to the landlord documenting the problem, the times & dates you talked to them about it, gently explaining that you've tried twice to resolve this and need to come to some kind of understanding. That's right, you don't threaten anybody, you don't say "I'm angry", "I'm upset" nor even "I'm frustrated", you just ask for dialog on the subject. Sorry if that doesn't sit right with your testosterone, but that's how civilized people do things. That way, when some s*thead (who happens to resemble you in some vague generic fashion) who's ALSO fed up with the disturbance sprays a hose in the window in protest, you'll be credible when you say "no, I talked to her quite nicely about it, twice, and sent a calm note to the landlord, I don't resort to petty vandalism to address issues, there are better ways to handle a situation".

Maybe you did all this, and things still happened like you described. Even if the wild-eyed guy showed up at your door with a golf club threatening you, you can still head trouble off at the pass. He was probably more worked up over the fact he couldn't get you in a dialog. Maybe you could have said "Look, pal, you seem pretty worked up. I would be too, if someone did that to me. But I didn't do this. I had an issue with the alarm and we talked about it like decent human beings. I'm not the kind of person to do that, and I'm telling you I didn't use a hose to get satisfaction. I'll be happy to meet you down at the corner Starbucks in 15 minutes to talk about this like decent people if you want. A few extra minutes of shut-eye in the morning is not worth losing a good neighbor relationship over. Maybe if we think about it we can figure out who did it."

Wouldn't have showed the gun. Wouldn't have called cops. Personally I think you did nothing WRONG but there were a few things you did that could have been a little more RIGHT. You were within your rights on all counts but I would have played it a little differently and (perhaps thanks to the way I do things) I've never lost a good neighbor relationship nor had a crazy man with a golf club on my stoop threatening me.

I just had the thought that perhaps her alarm goes off for an hour solid is because she spends the night at her boyfriend's house on the spur-of the moment and forgets she has the alarm set at home. My alarm repeats every day unless specifically turned off, and it sounds for an hour - sounds like hers is the same. We had a roommate who went away for a week and forgot and left his alarm set. We went to the circuit breaker on the side of the building and flipped switches until the alarm quit sounding, then left that switch off until the day before he came back. Nothing was ever said... glad he didn't have a fridge or tropical fish tank on the same circuit!
 
...the final stage in the confrontation would have been when DocZinn opened the door and effectively invited the attack.

Concur.

...It's a noise, for pete's sake, and it only happens a few minutes before you're going to get up anyway. (snip) It's a city, cities are noisy, if you're beyond coping then get yourself some earplugs. or move.

Precisely.

Two words for you: Martha Moxley

No denying that an iron, 6-iron in Moxley's case, can be a deadly weapon. In this case, however, the club had no access to a human, unless "invited" (see above), and the altercation was precipitated by a nuisance complaint. There is a LOT of second-guessing going on here and it is not only me: I was just the first. (Except my initial post seems to have been deleted. I wonder how/why that occurred? Too insightful?)

The posters above make my points far kinder then me, I suppose, but things remain the same:

"This is about an alarm clock. Get over it."

That's the view from my chair.
 
"The easiest way to change the laws is to vote"

That is, quite simply, the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a very long time.







Based on the assumption that we live in a free country that has free and fair elections.
 
If your laws are anything like those in the UK, she is probably causing noise pollution, so just call the police and get them to tell her to stop the noise. If she continues, she'll be breaking the law and action can be taken. Also, tell the police about the threats against you. Pester the police to actually go out and do something about both things. Perhaps a word from a policeman will put him off trying something again (no way are they going to arrest him without real evidence, but they may give him a warning). Keep a video camera by your door so that you can tape any further threats. You might also consider having your lawyer warn them that you will take legal action if the threats/noise continue.

Since the danger seems to be only when going to and from your apartment (i.e. within or just outside the building) you could carry a pistol to and from your apartment in a paper bag or some such, and then put it in your car/a rucksack/briefcase etc when you're at a safe distance. If anyone ever found out (by, for instance, you having to use it) you would simply explain that you were on your way to the range with it when you were attcked, or that you were planning to go to the range after work etc. Of course, if California law has rules about guns being unloaded when in transit, this wouldn't work. Carry a kubaton or a maglite instead, if nescessary, or pepper spray/CS gas if that's legal in Cali. You might also like to take some martial arts training.
 
bummer

i'd call cops too see whewn the dingbat claims to have seen you with hose get it on official paper.often they slit their own throat with their claims. i had someone swear i did something once and i was in court at the time they claimed a judge and room full of lawyers and cops make great witnesses. and if you have a cell phone with voice mail put your own number on speed dial. in a pinch call your own number let your voice mail record it all. i ruined the day of a group of manassas va cops with that one day. and the recording isn't on you can't be confisicated if those you record have badges.
 
Fosbery,

I've never actually met a Brit who LIKED guns.


I'm glad there's one. I hope there's others. :)
 
No denying that an iron, 6-iron in Moxley's case, can be a deadly weapon. In this case, however, the club had no access to a human, unless "invited" (see above), and the altercation was precipitated by a nuisance complaint.
I consider the guy with the club a threat. The guy who complained about the noise had every right to do so, in a lawful manner.

As was pointed out numerous times, he SHOULD have called the police then and there. Assuming that they showed up, they would have found a belligerent man with a weapon outside somebody else's apartment, making threats. I don't recall where this was, but in Rocky River, OH, I'm betting that the guy would have gone for a ride to the police station, especially after the guy who was threatened had been interviewed. Anything in the world could have happened elsewhere, and I don't even guarantee that the cops would take the appropriate action here. I just THINK they would based on my firsthand interaction with them. If he'd forced his way into my apartment, I'd have double-tapped him with my Model 27. A previous call to the cops backs up your claim of a threat to life and limb.

The golf club guy doesn't sound right in the head and seems to think that he can scare people into submission. That works on a lot of people. When you try it on the wrong person, your day goes downhill REAL fast.
 
When I opened it (mistake, I know), the woman was standing there with her boyfriend, who outweighs me by 60 pounds or so. He asked if I had sprayed the water, and I truthfully answered that I had not,

So far so good.

but that I thought it was perfectly justified.

That was your first mistake. Verbally escalating the confrontation by this wasn't smart. The only reasonable reply should have been your no.

He replied that "That tells me you did it, and I'm gonna beat your ass."

Well, I shut the door and locked it, and went and put on my 1911.

The guy says he's going to "beat your ass" and you strap on a gun. Why did you do that instead of just calling the cops and leaving the door closed. So far you've made one mistake verbally escalating the confrontation and you've now gotten a deadly weapon in response to a verbal threat from someone that doesn't even have opportunity.

Just as I buckled my belt, he knocked on the door again, and when I looked through the window I saw him there with a golf driver. My wife opened the curtain and we went back and forth for about 10 or fifteen minutes.
What do you mean you "went back and forth"? Did you attempt to calm the guy down? Did you tell him that you'd called the cops? Did you continue to posture and engage in male dominance display like a monkey?

At one point he said we was going to kill me. I reached for the door handle, intending to open it so he would see the holstered pistol and hopefully leave.

You started to remove the only barrier between you and this guy after he said he was going to kill you so you could intimidate him with a holstered handgun?

He cocked the driver back and got ready to swing. At the same time, my wife stopped me from opening the door.

Well, at least one of the 4 of you was thinking rationally.

I think you handled this badly all the way around.
 
I think you handled this badly all the way around.

I cannot diagree with a single point you've made but -- damn -- that was harsh. Even for me. :eek:

I wonder how long until your kind response gets yanked? :cuss:

Why did you do that instead of just calling the cops and leaving the door closed?

A guess? "Gun mentality."

For the record, I was not there: but I've seen it many times. Typically, someone winds up dead. "Fabulous." :mad:
 
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