already have a 45-70, worthwhile adding a 308?

[cpirtle]

Okay, first off I don't have a lot of history with centerfire rifles. Being a lifelong Ohioan who can't usually hunt with one, and doesn't like long range bench shooting, I never saw much purpose to own one.

I do own an AR and a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun that I love, but both are short range guns. I use the 45-70 for CAS Side matches mostly.

With all of that said I've been contemplating adding a 308 for something with a little more punch than the AR. I settled on 308 because like the .223, ammo can be had across the full spectrum of cheap to high end and it's readily available.

So I started thinking about the 45-70 and wondering how much of a performance difference there is between it and the 308. I already reload for the 45-70 so I can taylor my load to my needs but generally speaking I don't think of the 45-70 as being much good past 150-200 yards.

Anyone offer any advice or thoughts?

Would a 308 fill a void in my current calibers?

Thanks!

 

[Jake1996]

you could try a 270 or 30-06 but the 308s fine too.

 

[thebigc]

i would rather get a 30-06 if you get a modern one you can handload stuff that gets it close to .300 win mag and i just really like the caliber

my first gun was a 1903 springfeild and i still have a 1917 eddystone i love the eddystone nice gun.

the .308 is nice but theres not much surplus avaiable and the cmp allways has m2 ball for fairly cheap just for practice loads.

 

[Pony Express]

Being a lifelong Ohioan who can't usually hunt with one, and doesn't like long range bench shooting, I never saw much purpose to own one.

Sounds like you don't have any need for one. In your instance, since long range shooting isn't your cup of tea, why bother paying for a gun that only serves that purpose?

I'd save my money and buy more ammo for the guns you currently own if I were in your shoes.

NOTE: I am not saying that .308 is only good for long range competition, I'm saying that the way the OP puts it, he has no practical use other than long range shooting.

 

[sert01]

To answer your original question, a .308 would be a nice addition to your gun collection. You've got a small caliber, .223, a large bore, 45/70, and a .308 would fit the gap between perfectly.If you decided to hunt a "rifle" state, you would be pretty well covered for anything in the country, including Alaska. Use your .223 for anything up to antelope or deer. Use your .308 for anything from deer to elk and black bear, and your 45/70 will take care of anything from deer to moose and the big bears. IMHO, I think you'd be pretty well setup. Sert01

 

[Trent]

i would rather get a 30-06 if you get a modern one you can handload stuff that gets it close to .300 win mag and i just really like the caliber

Not trying to nitpick, but define "close"???

30-06 is cheaper, and has a good range of bullet weights, and in terms of power both will do the job a long way out.

But.. 300 Win Mag will stay supersonic longer in any given bullet weight and exits the muzzle faster. Because any errors in velocity deviation, wind, spin drift, etc are expounded with time of flight, a faster projectile will be a more accurate projectile, given the same quality of barrel, action, ammo quality, and shooter. A group that strings out 3" of vertical deflection at 300 yards due to round to round velocity difference, will be more than double that spread at 600 yards due to the increased time of flight between 300-600 yards.

308 surplus is usually more readily available than 30-06 - there's almost always a bunch of surplus on the market at any time from various importers (currently serbian and german). Cases are also typically a lot less expensive than other 30 cals, if you roll your own.

Not trying to argue, I like 30-06, but 308 has a ton of options. Unless he's planning to target shoot at long range, the performance difference isn't worth the extra cost of the larger calibers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So I started thinking about the 45-70 and wondering how much of a performance difference there is between it and the 308. I already reload for the 45-70 so I can taylor my load to my needs but generally speaking I don't think of the 45-70 as being much good past 150-200 yards.

Anyone offer any advice or thoughts?

Would a 308 fill a void in my current calibers?

cpirtle,
The difference between the 45-70 and the .308 are like night and day. My favorite rifles are chambered in 30-06. I can shoot them at the ranger for hours which can't be said for the 45-70 unless I take along some reloads made with TrailBoss or Black Powder. Like you already said, the 45-70 is not for long distances so if you want a gun with more punch and want to shoot out past the 150 yard mark I think a .308 (or 30-06) will fill that void nicely.

 

[Jake1996]

You could try a 270win or wsm

 

[MCMXI]

Would a 308 fill a void in my current calibers?

That depends entirely on what that void consists of and what you plan to do with the .308 Win. If you're asking if the .308 Win is a good cartridge for general use such as target shooting, hunting, fighting ... heck yeah. I have four rifles chambered in .308 Win and won't ever part with them. By the way, I have three rifles chambered in .45-70 Govt and three chambered in .223 Rem but I went from .223 Rem to .308 Win to .300 Win Mag to .45-70 Govt. Kind of a natural progression in terms of recoil.

a faster projectile will be a more accurate projectile, given the same quality of barrel, action, ammo quality, and shooter.

This is typically true if you increase velocity AND decrease recoil, such as going from .308 Win to .260 Rem or 7mm-08. For many shooters, a .300 Win Mag is more difficult to shoot accurately compared to a .308 Win so it's not just about velocity.

 

[StrawHat]

As a fellow Buckeye, I would suggest you have all the rifle you need with something chambered for the 45-70. In the proper rifle, the 45-70 is indeed a long range rifle, if you are up to the task. Is the 308 a flatter shooting cartridge, of course, but it does not have the long range capability the 45-70 does. (Before all you small bore afficianados jump on me, I prefer large bore rifles and you will not convince me). Something like a Rolling Block or Trapdoor or even a Sharps can be made into a wonderful hunting rifle. Another thing is I would ask you to define long range hunting. For me a long hunting shot is 125 yards. And then I try to get closer, preferably to have that distance or less. Long range shooting on the other hand is as far as I can make out a target. Rocks, logs, cans etc are wonderful for long range shooting. I would think another rifle would satisfy you but if you fell the need for another cartridge, there is a laundry list of good ones. I used to use the 6.5x55 and had good success with it, but the 45-70 definately hits harder.

 

[Onmilo]

I own rifles in .45/70, .308, .30/06 and a few other calibers.
They all seem to get along together and I don't see a problem with it.

 

[pharmseller]

I handload for my .30-06 and I get pretty close to .300 WM velocities.
59.0 gr Ramshot Hunter (1 gr below max, YMMV), 180 gr. Nosler Partition, seated just touching the lands.
I get 2900 ft/sec at the muzzle with this load from a Weatherby Vanguard Back Country.
That's prety close.

P

 

[philpost]

the .308 is nice but theres not much surplus avaiable

I was under the impression that 7.62x51 NATO can be used in all .308 rifles. True?

 

[Onmilo]

7.62X51 cartridge cases are thicker than commercial .308.
Headspace between the two carridges is slightly different, running 1.630/1.631" for commercial .308 and 1.633/1.635" for Nato round.

The thicker brass of the NATO round means when handloading, maximum commercial loads should never be loaded in these NATO dimension cases as the pressure can spike to unsafe levels when fired.

Factory loaded NATO cartridges tend to produce lower pressures than maximum commercially loaded .308 Winchester cartridges.

Other than these issues, the two cartridges can be fired interchangeably in .308 chambers with the only problem being possible sticky, hard to open bolt with the NATO catridges due to the thicker brass and slightly different position of the factory shoulder position. HTH

 

[Chasin'Tail]

After looking at your web site I believe we are kindred spirits.

That being said I am looking at adding a 45/70 to my collection as I already have a 308, and absolutely love it. My 308's primary use is letting the air out of coyotes 600+ yards sometimes, and long distance target shooting up to 1000 yards. [Flame shields up] I have read many times the 308 in inherently the most accurate round and believe at least for me it's true. If I needed a long distance tack driver I always reached for the 308, so I sold my 30-06 because too much dust was collecting on it, as the 30-06 was flatter shooting but not as accurate. YMMV

For deer hunting I prefer to get up close and personal and have been primarily using a .50 cal muzzle loader for both muzzle-loading and rifle season. However if the need arises the 308 does a fine job. So if you are looking at a long range shooting (150+ yards), the 308 is an excellent choice weather you shoot targets or big game hunt.

Any of the for-mentioned ammo should be readily available. In fact, I probably would have to say that the 30-06 and 270 in my neck of the woods has a bit of an advantage in selection choices. I reload so this really doesn't affect me. Next year I am looking forward to hunting deer with a 45/70 in addition to the .50 cal muzzle loader.

Performance between the two are not in the same class, both have their strengths and weaknesses. Knock down power vs long distance shooting.

Hope this helps.

 

[StrawHat]

cpirtle ...I do own ... a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun that I love, but both are short range guns. I use the 45-70 for CAS Side matches mostly.

The Guide gun is a shorter range rifle but still adequate for out to about 125 yards.

cpirtle ...So I started thinking about the 45-70 and wondering how much of a performance difference there is between it and the 308. I already reload for the 45-70 so I can taylor my load to my needs but generally speaking I don't think of the 45-70 as being much good past 150-200 yards.

Anyone offer any advice or thoughts?

From what I have seen at under 125 yards, the 45-70 hits a lot harder than the 308 or similar cartridges. Past that, I don't shoot at living targets so I can not comment on the two. But I do shoot at targets and used to compete with the 45-70. The biggest thing against the 45-70 for long distance shooting is the recoil. Unless you get a heavy rifle, the big bores will wear you down much faster than a small bore.

 

[saturno_v]

Cpirtle

It all depends on "why" you want another centerfire rifle.....you said that long range shooting is not your thing and you cannot hunt with a centerfire rifle in your state.....so are you looking for one from a purely collecting/I want to have/occasional range plinking standpoint?? A possibility of anl hunting trip in another state?

In both case my suggestion would be for a nice bolt action 30-06.

Ammo is as easy to find (and as inexpensive) as the 308, the cartridge is much more versatile (bullet weight selection) a bit more power than the 308 (especially in 24" barrels and up and in particular way with bullet weights heavier than 165 gr.), great historical heritage.

With the right loads the 30-06 is not far ballistically from a 300 Win Mag at much less cost. It is a serious 400+yards game getter.

A 30-06 can take down anything on this continent....from varmint loads (110-125 gr.) up to Elk, Moose and the big bears (180, 200, 220 up to 240 gr.)

IMHO anyone collecting firearms should own a 30-06

 

[ihctractor]

Those who say the 45-70 isn't a long range caliber must have never studied the history of the buffalo hunters and Indian war sharpshooters who mastered 600 to 1000 yard shots. Can it be done as easy as a .308? Probably not, but it's certainly capable and probably has more knockdown power at those ranges.

I own both calibers in multiple guns and love them both for different reasons. Having either one in Ohio is a matter of "want" since there's really no practical need in this state. Although, it is rather satisfying to take out groundhogs at 150 yards with a 45-70 loaded with cast lead bullets that you made yourself.

 

[Robert]

I do own an AR and a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun that I love, but both are short range guns.

I have hit targets at 600y with a AR and an ACOG. What is short range to you?

So I started thinking about the 45-70 and wondering how much of a performance difference there is between it and the 308.

Sorta like comparing my 1971 Chevy Blazer to a Corvette...

 

[BrocLuno]

If you want a multi-purpose "fill-in" rifle - I think an 06 mil-surp will give you good service. You already shoot CAS, so why not consider shooting military matches or games (vintage bolt action?)? You can always use it for hunting and you should be able to get you investment back any time you want? Besides, you're real close to CMP, so why not go look?