Alternate Training Method

[jutinlee]

My carry weapon will be a 4" Kimber 1911. I just so happen to have had a CO2 BB gun in the 1911-esque design of the same size. The weight and aesthetics are different, the fundamentals would be nearly the same, (if treated properly).
I have a cheapo one size fits most IWB holster that would fit it as nearly as my carry setup will be, (I'm an Illinois native so I'll be new to carrying). Again, its not identical and not a substitute.
How do you guys feel about using the CO2 pistol to train with: holstering, drawing and the such. My reasoning is its a non-legal and far less dangerous to myself and the home method of practicing fundamentals and trigger work in a fast mode rather than using the 1911 in a slow and dry fire capacity.

It's no substitute to actual training, I know, but do you guys think that I could learn and develop holster work and drawing to fire with quick target acquisition effectively using this method?

Please, any comments and advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sam1911]

Absolutely you can! There are things you WON'T get by using that set-up, but a whole lot you will.

The 4-count draw stroke, drawing from concealment, presentation to the target, use of cover, transitions, getting "off the X" while drawing, developing a retention firing position and getting hits with it, and many other things can be practiced effectively and safely at home using a good airsoft or BB pistol replica. If you can get a good one, you can use your actual carry gear.

 

[jutinlee]

Should I use the same drills or should I alter them in some aspect to compensate for any differences there may be?

 

[Sam1911]

Exactly the same. There's really nothing to compensate for, except the lack of recoil, and you'll be better off without it to start.

 

[jutinlee]

Awesome, I seen a cat which looked like it needed a BB this morning (there's been strays getting into things they shouldn't at mine and my neighbors house, making a real mess of things) so I went to get it out and suddenly it clicked.
The cat got away because I instantly became sidetracked by comparing the models.
I'm glad to have it confirmed that I could train with it.
Now, to find that cat again.
I still can't figure out how the strays and the coyotes seem to be living side by side at night. But, then maybe the coyotes will get to them all before I do and then the BB gun won't cut it anymore. But that's a whole seperate issue altogether.

 

[Al Thompson]

Sam's got it. Buddy of mine took his nephew to the range and the nephew did fine. Here's the kicker - the nephew had only fired Air-Soft previously. You still need live fire, but you can grasp the fundamentals with different tools.

 

[Plan2Live]

See above and take note of Al's signature and practice the four safety rules even when using your less lethal firearm.

 

[Noah]

I absolutely love airsoft, it's like dry fire, except with projectiles. And you can do force on force training for cheaps.


Anyone who tells you that using an airsoft pistol to practice your draw/presentation/sight picture/first shot is NOT a great, safe and cost effective idea is just being a closed minded snob and you should ignore them.

 

[WolverineFury]

A book I read described it as "dry fire on steroids" If you spend 90% of your training time using the airsoft gun and the remaining time on a range with your Kimber I don't see how you can go wrong. Just make sure that what works with the airsoft works with the real gun, and don't be lazy about safety since the airsoft "can't hurt anyone"

 

[Mike J]

It has been a while back because it finally died but I used a CO2 pistol to practice with for a while. I could plink in my yard with it & it cost next to nothing to shoot. After spending 10 minutes a night with it for a week I could tell a big difference the next time I went to the range.

 

[jutinlee]

That's reassuring to know others have had success with this method.

 

[1911 guy]

Agree with the others, it is a completely viable training method and widely used.

Quote:
My reasoning is its a non-legal and far less dangerous to myself and the home method of practicing fundamentals and trigger work in a fast mode rather than using the 1911 in a slow and dry fire capacity.

This is the thing that caught my attention. Forget about speed. Speed is a non-issue. Make all your practice, with the airsoft and with the actual pistol, be about as deliberate and efficient as possible. The speed will come on its own. Trying to be fast results is fumbles, wasted motion and a general decrease in both efficiency and speed. Your body is trying so hard to hurry that it takes longer to get the pistol in play.

Who said "Smooth is fast"?

 

[jutinlee]

So train slow until I get the muscle memory to start taking over is what you're saying?

 

[strambo]

You will get the most benefit from dry-firing your actual gun. Especially drawing and the first shot. So, you will be pounding into muscle memory the draw stroke, sight picture and trigger pull of your actual gun and carry gear.

Supplement this with the CO2 pistol to do things you can't like confirming you are getting good hits from the draw, multiple targets, shooting while moving etc. I would do 80-90% dry-fire, 10-20% air pistol.

Get 2-3 of these, make some home made stands and put old clothes on them. Great, realistic training for low cost and they will last forever airsoft, almost forever BB, and a really long time live-fire. I have 3 and also staple a foam gun (or not) so my training is always with realistic, clothed, 3D targets that are armed. If it isn't armed, I give verbal commands instead of shooting.

http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=TAC-MAN

They also have great photo-realistic paper ones for a good price. I like the ones with shapes on the sides. So, I warm up with some slower fire for groups working on my raw marksmanship on the shapes. Then do some faster drills on the human targets. Then finish my training with the clothed targets with movement etc.

Once I even rigged a balloon COM so when hit the target would fall and you couldn't see it. It was great, but a PITA to set up.

Your imagination is the limit to even low-cost training realism. Reactive targets that are clothed, fall only when hit COM and have blood? Too easy, add a ziploc bag of food colored corn syrup to the jerry-rigged reactive baloon system.

Have a friend set them up while you aren't looking. Once it is ready and all safety procedures are in place, he shoots a round down range that is incoming fire, turn and solve the problem!

Their fully 3D live-fire reactive targets are very reasonably priced for what they are...I haven't bit the bullet to get 1 or 2 of those yet though!

 

[1911 guy]

Quote:
So train slow until I get the muscle memory to start taking over is what you're saying?

Absolutely. I can't be the only one who has seen a modern day Wyatt Earp wannabe toss his pistol downrange because he tried to whip the pistol out without a firm firing grip and tried to move the pistol toward the target without first fully clearing the holster. This uses the muzzle and leverage to pull the grip right out of your hand.

Micro-manage the drawstroke and trigger press. when an error occurs, start over, rather than completing a bungled movement. Every completed movement gets built into the memory bank. Only put good stuff there.

Visualization helps. I know, it sounds all "New Age". But it's been used for years. Run through a perfect drawstroke and trigger press in your head, mentally noting all the movements. This sets up a framework in your mind that the body then tries to work within.

 

[hartcreek]

Just get some snapcaps to augment your dry fire practice and air gun practice and you will be fine.

 

[gamestalker]

Most all of the training I've done has been with a CO2 or similar weapon, and it has paid off. Though this was some 50 yrs. ago or so that I began training, my brother in law being LE and well qualified himself, worked with me all the time using nothing but my CO2 pistol and rifles. I think it helps build a well structured skill set that covers most handling aspects, presentation, target acquisition and such. And then when you make the transition to actual firearms, you'll have a good understanding of the hands on fundamentals.

GS

 

[shafter]

I would recommend using the actual firearm that you have. Make sure it's unloaded and then practice your drawing and dry firing. Get some dummy rounds and practice mag changes as well. While I wouldn't go so far as to say using the bb gun is a waste of time, I do wonder what the advantages are of using that instead of the real deal.

Plus, the fact that you're using an expensive firearm means you will GO SLOW when starting out. Nobody wants to throw their Kimber across the room! Practice getting your hand on your gun a few thousand times before even drawing it. Then grip and draw.

 

[Sam1911]

I do wonder what the advantages are of using that instead of the real deal.

Well, there's one -- actually putting a projectile on/into/through a target. That's what a lot of these close duplicate Airsoft or BB gun models can do for you, very safely, in more real-world settings than you could do with live ammo. You can practice draws and presentations and dryfiring with your real gun in your home, but that won't tell you where that shot would have gone.