carry training.

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Spike_akers

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
104
Location
Richmond VA
what do you guys feel is the best way to train for concealed carry, such as drawing, firing quick, and on target. i know it sounds simple. but it seems i cant find a method that is actually improving anything im doing. i havent gotten any faster, and i havent gotten anymore accurate. im using a glaco IWB at 4 0'clock and a kimber full size 1911.. i'be been drawing and shooting while stationary... it doesnt seem like the most practical method either... any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
My first suggestion is always to seek creditable instruction on the proper technique. It will save you money on wasted ammo...both to learn or the break bad habits you've picked up while teaching yourself. There aren't any shortcuts to learning to do this

Having said that, I'll add that the best way to become better is at home without ammo in the gun...through Dry Fire practice.

1. You should practice first without a cover garment until you get the technique down
2. Break the draw down into it's 4 parts and practice each by itself until it is repeatable on demand...if you try learning it as 1 motion, it becomes self-defeating
3. Slow way down to get the movements all correct, all the time.
4. You should practice the same technique coming out of the holster and getting the gun back into the holster
5. When you put all 4 parts of the draw together, end each completed draw with perfect sight alignment and a perfect trigger press.
6. Practice drawing not completing the draw...holding your fire
7. Use your timer (set a par time) to gauge your improvement

When you get all that down, you can add a cover garment...then you can practice just sweeping it out of the way and establishing a consistent grip on your gun butt

After all that, you are ready to go to the range and try it with ammo.
1. Don't cheat, by flipping the thumb safety off before the barrel is pointed down range
2. If you need to move, always start with your non-weapon side foot/leg...it is harder to draw out of a moving holster
 
I've never taken any formal training...but it's something I've got on my wish list of things to do. A brother of mine even recommends it as a periodic refresher.

I found this link and am wondering if this encapsulates the four steps you're talking about:

http://guns.wonderhowto.com/how-to/properly-draw-pistol-practical-shooting-0129538/

I really like the tip about drawing with the eyes closed as a method of evaluation.


I understand the mechanics of slow-motion training to get the form correct. It's a lot like performing a kata in martial arts. Slow motion allows us to concentrate on correct form. Repetition of the correct form is muscle training/workout. This leads to what's commonly called "muscle memory", where your body responds in times of need by moving in the patterns you've trained it to move in.

Well developed muscle memory opens the path to increases in speed while maintaining accuracy.


I have many weaknesses which I need to work on myself, since I've not put much training into defensive use of my handguns. It's a world apart from leisurely target shooting at the range.

I was lucky enough at my CCW course to be the only guy in the class (everybody else that day had cancelled). As a result, the officer who gave that 8 hour class could spend his entire time devoted to just me, especially during the course of fire training. It was very informative, not to mention a lot of fun. I came away from that course with a list (yes...I made an actual list) of weaknesses and other things to work on in my practices.
 
what do you guys feel is the best way to train for concealed carry, such as drawing, firing quick, and on target. i know it sounds simple. but it seems i cant find a method that is actually improving anything im doing.
Click to expand...
As 9mmepiphany said, a great first step is to pay for some high-quality training from an instructor who knows what they're doing. Plenty of good ones around, and some GREAT ones not too far away from you. (Can you get out to Tom Givens' place? Rangemaster in Mamphis.)

For general skills and steady practice, I heartily recommend finding a club near you that hosts IDPA and/or USPSA matches, and then finding out if they hold a regular practice night. If they do, start attending as often as you can. If you're open, safe, and willing, the guys and ladies who have the skills and experience to be successful competitors will help you work on all those skills in the sort of long-term practice regimen that makes what you learn in training take hold permanently.

The skills you're looking to improve are pretty basic gun-handling competencies that an accomplished competitive shooter can help you work on establishing.

Good self-defense training will further build on your mechanical competencies and instill the rest of the skills you need to be able to defend yourself out in the real world (as opposed to basic range/shooting skills).
 
Posted by Sam1911: Good self-defense training will further build on your mechanical competencies and instill the rest of the skills you need to be able to defend yourself out in the real world (as opposed to basic range/shooting skills).
Click to expand...
It will also prevent you from reinforcing bad habits.
 
+1 to what everyone has said thus far, a good course of instruction, not just for the instruction, but exterior critique will be able to point out many more things than just yourself.
Dry firing is huge, you'll get much better training just setting aside a few moments of your day dry firing than a day at the range. Not that the range won't have its own training value though. I'd recommend using a a full sized mirror to practice in front of. Not only will it allow you to watch yourself and be able to see the little things from a different perspective, it also gives you a target. You get to practice your draw and be able to refine it so you end with sight alignment on a human target so you will imprint putting sights on center mass every time. This is key IMO, as it somewhat keeps in perspective of what the purpose of your draw is for instead of a random spot on the wall, or a non-descript target downrange. And your not actually drawing down a actual person, but the reflection of yourself.
 
As said, get some training. Helped me a LOT. Was so much fun I am heading to Austin TX next month for another class. :)
 
Al Thompson said:
The late and great Paul Gomez has a couple of excellent videos on the 4 count drawstroke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZfgutNufU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NKngkVXMGg
Click to expand...
I really like the Gomez videos.

Notice that in the first one, right at the end, that he reverses the count; 3, 2, 1. That is what I meant earlier...every re-holstering is an opportunity to practice the same movements.

Notice in the second video, Evolution of the Draw Stroke, that he talks about (in the modern draw; at about 4:00) aligning the gun with the Master Eye during Step 3. This was a huge advancement in the technique of the defensive draw.

Another huge point is the hands always moving together (at the same time), this is a large factor in improving your magazine changes also

Sam1911 said:
For general skills and steady practice, I heartily recommend finding a club near you that hosts IDPA and/or USPSA matches
Click to expand...
I highly recommend this also. It is a great test bed to see if what you have been practicing holds up under some stress
 
Thanks again for the Gomez videos. I just finished watching them. It only took me 2 1/2 hours from the first to the second...

I ran across some very entertaining videos on related links that had Piers Morgan having his posterior handed to him by a variety of people.

Very entertaining. I especially liked the way Piers called Jesse Ventura a coward. Jesse's a class act!

Back on topic:

I found the Gomez videos extremely informative. I'll do more reasearch and definately incorporate this into my personal training. I intend to back it up by some live courses, as well.
 
Thanks for the vids, I really appreciate them. And I hate to say it, because training is typically something very important to me, but traveling, and paying an instructor aren't in my budget atm.. that's why Im doing my best to self train... Unless you guys know of a course, or club in the Richmond va area that's not over $400, I'm gonna have to stay out of the course... Right now I'm only carrying around our property, and while driving or other places that there's little to no other people, as I don't feel confident that if I was in the situation to use it, I wouldn't be endangering others... I don't want to be the next sandy hook for obamas anti-gun policies promotion...

But once again, thanks for the videos. Does anyone have know any good books that may help??
 
Spike_akers said:
that's why Im doing my best to self train
Click to expand...
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it someone isn't critiquing your performance and making corrections in you technique, it isn't training...it is just building habits; be they good or bad.

Unless you have a pretty good foundational technique (hands on training) to build on, all the videos and books on the subject are of only limited benefit...it is like reading about how to counter steer a car or fly a helicopter. I remember reading about breaking my first shot out of a holster as my arms reached extension, years, if not decades, before someone showed me how it was correctly done...then I had to go back and try to break years of the habit of snapping (jerking) the trigger on the draw.

Having said that, the book I'd recommend is the classic Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals by Brian Enos. I'd also point you to the 3 links, in my signature, on shooting technique.

It feels funny to call Enos' book a classic, but it is 20 years old
 
I agree with 9mmepiphany... I shot way more than $400 in ammo, and got better, but could not shoot like I wanted to. Just 2 half days with a trainer, one day inside, a few hours at the range, and major improvements were made.

I had my grip wrong, and was holding the gun too tight... I probably would not have ever figured out what I was doing wrong on my own. Learned more than just that, but that was the main things I was doing wrong. I am still working on correcting those bad habits.

I am lucky, a friend of mine is a trainer, and he is only 5 hours away, so I get really good training for just my expenses. :)

I do understand about being short on $. Check out local ranges, sometimes you can find someone to help you out there.
 
Instruction is pretty much non existent where I live, there are only other casual shooters at the range to get advice from (with pinches of salt) so I rely on THR and Enos's forum for training
 
Well, that is an interesting conundrum...how to get practical self-defense and defensive shooting training in areas/countries where carrying (or even owning) defensive type firearms is not lawful?

Are there groups that offer training in parts of Europe (Czech comes to mind?) where such things are more common?
 
To me the biggest issue isn't doing everything wrong or necessarily bad habits (that is totally possible, and I was there myself just like 9mmepiphany said he was), but even if you do almost everything right, without formal training you will simply overlook some things.

Tom Givens (my favorite handgun instructor) gave the example of either the North Hollywood shootout or the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. I don't want to mangle the example too badly but he essentially stated that the BG was self-trained, and quite a good shooter, but had never thought to practice weak-hand only (WHO) manipulations/shooting and that was essentially what became his downfall in that gunfight.

I had a left-hander mag pouch set up for right hand carry so my bullets were facing the wrong way... added a second or so to my reload at times... never would have caught it if Tom hadn't noticed!

Goofy little things you overlook can make a huge difference.
 
It`s not a quick draw contest. Given the fact that a "problem" can come from any direction that kind of eliminates "firing quick" your words.

Being accurate is more beneficial. plus, acting rather than re-acting to a problem as well.
Range time. Practice. Going through the motions(live fire) of drawing,getting on target and being accurate or as good as you can be.
Under extreme pressure, like having to draw and fire while some one is doing that to you will no doubt leave you less worried about "quickdraw" than staying alive.
 
Sam1911 said:
Well, that is an interesting conundrum...how to get practical self-defense and defensive shooting training in areas/countries where carrying (or even owning) defensive type firearms is not lawful?

Are there groups that offer training in parts of Europe (Czech comes to mind?) where such things are more common?
Click to expand...
I think private sector workers take courses that are held in continental Europe. I believe one local security group goes to France to train.

A question about Paul's first video: when he sees the gun in his peripheral vision in Step 3, does he then track the front sight during extension? At what point of the extension should the sights have started to align?
 
Last edited:
+1 for IDPA. It's a competition literally designed to train citizens who conceal carry. No fancy equipment - you shoot what you carry. No restrictive rules - you draw from your holster under a concealed garment and engage a 180 degree course of fire set up to mimic real life scenarios. And it's all done safely and under the watchful eye of range officers.

Depending on your local league, many groups have regular practices so you can train more often then the match schedule.

It's amazing how simple competition can reveal flaws in your skills and shed light on the need for improvement.

Plus, it's kinda fun.
 
Blackstone said:
A question about Paul's first video: when he sees the gun in his peripheral vision in Step 3, does he then track the front sight during extension? At what point of the extension should the sights have started to align?
Click to expand...
You'll first pick up the front sight as it comes up.

1. Your priority should be to get the gun up to eye level, as opposed to out toward the target...everyone wants to get the gun to extension, but it really slows down the first accurate shot. Ideally, the front sight will not rise higher than the center of your target

2. As the gun comes up, the slide should level off, which brings the rear sight into your field of vision...and into alignment with the front sight. If you are seeing the rear sight...and then bringing the front sight up into the notch...you're not doing it correctly.

3. I usually see my sights aligned, in practice, about a third of the way out. When drawing at speed, it is closer to half way out

Note: distances will vary with your body build, arm segment length and musculature
 
conw said:
I had a left-hander mag pouch set up for right hand carry so my bullets were facing the wrong way... added a second or so to my reload at times... never would have caught it if Tom hadn't noticed!

Goofy little things you overlook can make a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Not really that goofy...most magazine pouches are unidirectional now days. You should see folks who carry their magazines horizontally...then they have to decide, bullets facing up or down

I used to just be amused and correct clients, but it can be very enlightening to ask why they choose to carry that way. The answers are often well reasoned and logical for folks who haven't tried it at speed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
Alternate Training Method
Replies
18
Views
328
Sam1911
S
Craig_AR
  • Locked
Personal Blue Guns
Replies
20
Views
1K
MedWheeler
M
S
  • Locked
Can you draw and engage your CCW weak hand?
Replies
24
Views
1K
Fiv3r
F
G
  • Locked
UNPLEASANT LESSON
Replies
14
Views
1K
golden
G
M
  • Locked
IWB for "heavy set" fellas?
Replies
13
Views
1K
Iggy
Iggy
Back
Top