Am I good?

[matai]

So I've been shooting handguns about 2 to 3 times a week for the past 4 months.

Can anybody give me an idea about what size groupings one would get if they are a decent, good or great shot? I shoot from 7 15 yards most of the time.

I shoot a Sig P226 9mm, Glock 20 10mm and a HK P2000 40S&W. I have .22lr slides for both the Sig and Glock which I use a lot.

I've never had any training, all self taught, any help would be great.

Thanks

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Hello! And welcome.

Im new myself. If I get a group of all 10 of my shots within a size of a dinner plate COM (Center of Mass) which is USUALLY smaller than a chest of a adult, Im happy. at 7 yards.

There is ALWAYS room for improvement maybe smaller groups etc.

Practice, dont forget safety and do the best you can every time.

If you shoot on a range, maybe the RO can find someone to run you through a drill or something to provide some variety instead of the same old paper.

I usually find 7 yards a bit far out with handgun. Maybe one day I'll take it to 12 yards, then 20 and so on.

I expect my life or death defense or Home defense to happen at 3 yards or less. At those close ranges, the targets to me are HUGE.

And finally but not last, there is a peice of paper in the manual that Smith and Wesson certifies my handgun to be accurate to about 3 to 5 inches across at 7 yards or so more or less. I think that is pretty good. My groups are still twice that size. But we will see after a few more years of shooting and a few thousand rounds.

 

[Zerodefect]

15y- any vital hit on a mansized target is fine.
10y- fist sized group

A decent starting point for aimed, but not slow, fire.

I can group real tight if I really take my time. So I don't.

Don't forget to wind that target in close, 4-5y, and try shooting from a low retension position useing a lifesize target. (If your range allows.)

Once you get the hang of that, try to find a range that allows you to be on the range practiceing drawing, point shooting, retension position close range shooting. Usually have to take a class that rents an outdoor range for this, or somesort of competition.

I completely agree that 99/100, your more likely to have an encounter at extremly close range. Less than 5 yards. Allthough I do see the need to learn how to hit a target 7 yards away with no sights. (for example mutiple targets closing in from 21 ft=speed, not sights)

 

[BillH]

Watch the sights....

Took me a long time to learn to look at the target first, then the sights and never take my eye off them till after the trigger is pulled. Now anticipation is my problem. When I really try the groups are 3" to 5" @ 15 yards. Not the best, but good for me.

 

[Ed Ames]

The answer will depend totally on how fast you are shooting.

A general rule is that 5" at 25 yards is acceptable for 1 shot per second type shooting. That's the size of most metal reactive targets (many of which are not supposed to be used at under 25 yards).

 

[1858rem]

so does anyone use 50ft half size silhouette targets.....at 50 feet for practice? i alwas thought anything under 15 yards is way too easy since your just about standing next to the target.

i like to be able to put them all in the black on a 25 yard slowfire target, but i need a better pistol, currently im happy with all in the black at 10 long paces and im a little over 6'5" so 12 yds or so.

 

[Tiomoid]

Depends on my gun and how much coffee I've had that day! With my better shooters I can put a full clip on a 5" group at 15yrds without a lot of delay between shots. I try to shoot every 1 to 2 seconds, or less. With my poorer shooters I usually do 8" groupings. My oh-so-sweet 686 (.357) has produced sub 1" groups at 30yrds when shooting friendly competitions with friends (time was not a factor).

 

[David E]

Find a match, either IDPA or USPSA and shoot it. You'll see some good and very good shooters. You'll also see some, um, not so good.

Check the scores, see where you come in.

www.uspsa.com
www.idpa.com

 

[GRIZ22]

The guns you are using are easily capable of 2" groups at 15 yards. Don't accept a COM hit at this range. Yes that might get you through a fight but I suggest you slow down and try to shoot as accurately as possible. Speed will come. That's how the really good shooter started, slowly.

I can group real tight if I really take my time. So I don't.


If you work on the slow fire accuracy issue rapid fire accuracy will improve also.

 

[robctwo]

I print 6" targets on 8.5x11 paper. I have smaller circles inside the 6". Center circle is 2". I can use the targets at any range out to 50 yds. At 50 yds I'm trying to hit the paper!

My goal at 25 yds is to put all the rounds in the 6" in as tight of a group as possible. I normally shoot a round every second or so. I do pratice some faster and closer, since I do play speed steel at my club. there I need to shoot 8" at 15 yds fast.

My experience is that slow and accurate is a good way to start out.

 

[David E]

If your 7 yd slowfire "groups" are 6-10 inches, it would probably benefit you to take a gun class.

 

[loop]

Given 10 seconds per shot if my group is more than 2 1/2 inches at 25 yards I am bummed. I fully expect it to be under one inch.

Rapid fire? At a recent match one of our competitors put nine shots to center of mass at five yards in 2.8 seconds starting with a holstered gun. My time was 4.3 for the same drill.

What is really good? It is very debatable. I'm not very good at speed drills, but I'm faster and more accurate than more than half of my IDPA competitors.

What is good for aimed fire from a rest? I'm not happy with anything more than one inch at 25 yards. That doesn't mean I do it all the time. It just means that when I don't I am disappointed.

Speed and accuracy don't mix. If you want to be a one shot guy practice accuracy. If you want to be fast then you practice speed.

I'd rather put one round within a half inch of my target than a half dozen all over the place.

Maybe that's why I chose to shoot a .45 instead of a high-cap 9...

 

[MrBorland]

Can anybody give me an idea about what size groupings one would get if they are a decent, good or great shot? I shoot from 7 15 yards most of the time.

Are you good? Dunno. You didn't tell us how big your groupings are.

As others have suggested, you first have to decide what type of shooting you're talking about; target or combat action. Since you asked about group size, I'm assuming you're trying to get small groups, and asking about target type shooting, where you're taking unrushed deliberate aimed shots.

Others may disagree, but my general rule of thumb is that a good (but not excellent) shooter is able to consistently and honestly (i.e. no excuses and no "fliers") shoot 3" at 25 yards (or a little under 2" at 15 yards). That's 5 rounds, standing unsupported with iron sights (double action revolver shooters ought to be able to do this in single and double action). Very good to excellent shooting, IMO, would be 2.5-2", and outstanding shooters would be consistently under 2". It's likely quite a few bullseye shooters would fit into the last category, while few of the guys you'd typically see at the range would even fit into the first, so don't use them to measure your marksmanship.

I've never had any training, all self taught, any help would be great.

If you're just starting out, and not "good", bring the target in so you can print 3-4" groups, then increase the distance as you improve. Practice, but be patient, too. I'm no expert, but I've offered my general thoughts on this before, so I'll just paste some links (within a link).

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5626443&postcount=13

 

[Frank Ettin]

Welcome to handgunning. Since you're new, the best way to really see how you're doing and to improve is to get some professional training. There really is no good substitute for a qualified instructor watching you and commenting on what he (or she) sees.

 

[Walkalong]

A recent slow fire target a 7 yards.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Fifty rounds at 10 yards -- drawing from my holster and firing quick 2, 3 and 4 round strings -- with speed reloads as needed.



With a Nighthawk Talon III from a Milt Sparks Axiom holster.

 

[SRT1]

I've always gone on the notion that if I can hit a target reliably and quickly from 20-25 yards, then the same at 5-7 yards is a no brainer, so I practice at longer distances. Here's a pic of two target at 20 yards. One with my Fusion the other with my CBOB (I was running a comparison writeup). Both show 50 rounds each. Shot with 7 round mags, each mag shot in under 5 seconds (a little quicker than 1 shot per second). I also practice draw and fire, double taps etc. The draw and fire opens up somewhat from what these targets reflect to something a little larger than a dinner plate grouping. I'm comfortable with that and it really takes my mind off of any worry about what would happen at 5-7 yards.
Sarge

 

[David E]

Speed and accuracy don't mix. If you want to be a one shot guy practice accuracy. If you want to be fast then you practice speed.

I'd rather put one round within a half inch of my target than a half dozen all over the place.

I shake my head everytime I read something like this.

While a 1" group @ 25 yds is excellent sight/trigger control, if it takes 10 seconds per shot, including the first one, it has very little relevance to defensive shooting. Which is fine, if one doesn't care about defensive shooting.

But if you do care about defensive shooting, then consider this: if you have a guy with a hicap rifle getting ready to shoot you from 25 yds, would you rather have a shot that lands within 1/2" of your aiming point 10 seconds after he raised his gun to shoot or would you prefer a shot anywhere in a 10" COM circle in 2 seconds or less?

Many people think that it's a choice: be slow and hit, or be fast and miss.

Me, I'd rather hit.............fast.

 

[Ed Ames]

There is a fair body of research on practice and it all pretty well agrees that slow high-concentration practice is more effective than quick repetitive practice. If you want to build the skills to be fast, fast, practice slow.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I've always gone on the notion that if I can hit a target reliably and quickly from 20-25 yards, then the same at 5-7 yards is a no brainer, so I practice at longer distances....

I think that's sound reasoning. Nice shooting, BTW.

Also, I like to close each practice with 10 to 15 rounds of precision shooting -- slow fire at 20 to 25 yards. I feel that helps maintain good trigger control programing.

I think the first principle of good shooting is trigger control -- smoooth pressure straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving until the gun fires -- not anticipating or forcing the shot. When I see folks at the range poking holes all over one of those large silhouettes at 7 yards, I know they're jerking the trigger in one way or another. Sight alignment should not be much of an issue at 7 yards.

 

[Frank Ettin]

There is a fair body of research on practice and it all pretty well agrees that slow high-concentration practice is more effective than quick repetitive practice. If you want to build the skills to be fast, fast, practice slow.

It may help to understand the way humans learn a physical skill. In learning a physical skill, we all go through a four step process: (1) unconscious incompetence; (2) conscious incompetence; (3) conscious competence; and (4) unconscious competence. At the first step, we can't do something and don't recognize the desirability of doing it. At the second, we understand the desirability of learning to do something but don't know how to do it. At the third, we know how to do something but can only do it if we concentrate hard on doing it properly. And finally, we reach the stage at which we know how to do something and can do it reflexively (as second nature) on demand without having to think about it.

But the key here is going slow so that you can perform the task each time properly and smoothly. Don't try to be fast. Try to be smooth. Now here's the kicker: slow is smooth and smooth is fast. You are trying to program your body to perform the task properly and efficiently. As the programing takes, you get smoother; and as you get smoother you get more efficient and sure, and therefore, faster. And about now, you will have reached the stage of conscious competence. You can do the task properly and well as long as you think about it.

To go from conscious competence to the final stage, unconscious competence, is usually thought to take around 2,000 to 5,000 good repetitions. The good news is that dry practice will count. The bad news is that practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect. You need to work at this to get good.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The solution is simple -- work for smoothness and accuracy, and push yourself a bit each session. You'll get both speed and accuracy that way.

 

[bdg146]

Took me a long time to learn to look at the target first, then the sights and never take my eye off them till after the trigger is pulled

I have to disagree here. I've heard when shooting handguns that you should focus on the target and allow the sights to blur slightly. I tried it, although it felt backwards, and my shooting improved significantly. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I have to disagree here. I've heard when shooting handguns that you should focus on the target and allow the sights to blur slightly. I tried it, although it felt backwards, and my shooting improved significantly. Anyone else have thoughts on this?...

I disagree completely. Standard for a flash sight picture is to hard focus on the front sight (or when shooting a scoped handgun or rifle, on the reticle). When point shooting at near distances, one might focus on the target.

 

[Ed Ames]

Fiddletown has it... "front sight, press"... as in, focus on the front sight, press the trigger.