Amateur Knife Making

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Thanks very much. All help and advice is greatly appreciated. I got ALL tghe scale off with vinagar. I read wrong, soak for a few hours not minutes. Just wiped the scale off with a pot scourer in the morning.

Going to start making the gaurd today and when thats done, going to heat treat. Can i not just use a blowtorch to temper, like i did on my modified machetes to get that yellow, brown, purple color?
 
Perhaps you could, but getting a consistant temper may be challenging...

I have tempered knives in my wife's oven before, but that eliminates the ability to apply differential temper.

Valkman, I've read dozens of books that say how the piece is cooled after tempering does not matter, for plain carbon steels.... And so far, my experience has born this out. Why should one not quench the tempered blade? Genuinely curious!

J
 
Why would you quench it, unless you're in a hurry? Just like normalizing steel before heat treat, it should be allowed to cool on it's own.
 
:)

Valkman, I'm always in a hurry! With the wife (7 mo preggers) and 2year old daughter at home, finding time to mess about making knives is a serious challenge, especially when mixed in with my other time consuming hobbies... I've never spent more than 1 day making any knife's blade....

I've never had the opportunity to study under an experienced smith, just have a few books and the good ole' internet to go on. This is the first time I've seen someone warn against quenching following temper. Most state that you may quench or not, as is your preference.... But alot of these sources were written a hundred years ago (or at least over 50), so probably knowledge has advanced since then....

I'll let'em cool more slowly next time, see if I can discern a difference...

J
 
Made the handgaurd today. Need to drill the hole/slot for the tang, i tried to drill the steel today after it had cooled down at room temperature, the drillpress didnt even dent it.

If i let the steel cool down in the fire overnight does it make it that much softer?
 
When I need to drill a tang (I avoid this at all costs, but sometimes...), I place the blade in my forge, in a decent bed of coals, fully involved. Blade is buried with about 1/3rd of the fire above it. Heat to transition as if hardening, then stop. Then I cover the forge and leave it overnight. By morning, the steel is as soft as it's gonna be. Usually I'm forging 5160 (leaf springs), and in this condition it is just barely soft enough to drill or thread with a die. Use lots of oil and be sure to feed with certainty. If the drill stops cutting, it'll work-harden the surface and you're back to square one. To keep the drill happy, whenever the smoke begins to come up, retract the bit and re-oil immediately.

You should expect to kill a bit now and again...

The other alternative is to punch the hole in the forge.... But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

J
 
Thanks for the quick reply.

I am using a leaf spring and its quite thick +-4mm for the gaurd. Do you think its worth a try?

I wanted the gaurd to match the blade(forge beaten texture). Im kinda going for the primitive fighter look, if that exists. Looks kind of cool if i can get a slot through the guard. Ill try drill it tonight and report in the morning.

Im sure this is very involved, but how do you guys make your gaurds/end caps? Brass is cool but i cannot get brass here. Ive even thought of melting down pins from a electrical plug. Would it be possible? What else do you use?
 
It exists if you make one! I thought you were just drilling a pin hole for the handle, hobbing out the square slot in a spring steel guard will be a royal pain!

Haven't put a guard on a knife yet that wasn't an integral forging.... But, I'd consider just about soft metal. There is no need for hard steel here! Forge the guard from mild steel or wrought iron, I KNOW you have that available. The final forged texture will be similar to forged spring steel, but slightly milder looking (a bit smoother).

If you decide not to forge the guard, hacksaw and file work will turn one out of aluminum, brass, copper etc. fairly easily.

Some brasses can be forged too, as can aluminum, copper etc., tho some are easier than others. NEVER FORGE OR HEAT GALVANIZED STEEL OR OTHER ZINC ALLOYS - IT WILL RELEASE POISONOUS FUMES.

Plumbing fixtures can be a source of brass. More brass in bigger stuff, like irigation system valves.

I'm sure you can find brass somewhere nearby!

J
 
I can get lots of brass irrigation fittings etc. Can i melt these down with a normal knife making forge, if so, what do you put the brass in for melting?

I think you are right, ill try drill the spring gaurd otherwise im going to make a mild steel one. What do you use to prevent rust when the knife is complete, a non corrosive oil i guess?
 
If the knife is just not allowed to lay around wet, rust isn't a huge problem. Also, if it's in daily use, it's not a huge problem.

Over time, an oxide coating will form on the blade that is somewhat protective. Mottled grey looking. You can force it by wrapping the blade in papertowel and soaking that with vinegar for a couple hours. This oxide coating is essentially similar to gun bluing. It will hold oil on the blade to provide some protection.

I've used just about any oil from air tool oil to militec to food safe oils, depending on what I intended to use the knife for.

Most often, though, I don't do anything more than ensuring the knife is washed and dried promptly after use. I use a couple of my knives in the kitchen, and they receive no special treatment.

If a knife rusts up on you, use a scotchbrite pad to restore it. Don't do this on polished blades, but for forge finished ones, works just fine.

J
 
Got the gaurd to fit. I have two options and questions for treatment and fitting the gaurd.

1#Can i fit the gaurd to the blade and heat treat the blade and gaurd together in one piece?

2#If i treat the blade first and let it cool then heat the gaurd up red and do the final fit, will this upset the heat treatment of the blade?
 
Haha.

This thread should be title "Journeyman Knife Making".

So much knowledge I am lacking; I thought a bench-grinder, set of files and some stones were the way to go.

So much to learn there is; I must. /Yoda
 
Mokwepa,

You could do the tempering either way, with the guard on or off. If the guard is very large, it could over-heat the already tempered blade and soften it right at the blade/handle interface... Not good. But to do that, the guard would have to hold enough heat to raise the blade temp over about 500F before the guard cools.

I'd probably HT the 2 together.... But I'm not sure about that...

If I assembled after heat treat, I'd assemble quickly and quench the guard asap to prevent too much heating.

Heat treating simple carbon steel can be simple or complex, it seems. For centuries, the village smith did HT as I described, more or less. Heat to transition (Loved the description of transition in your link, HSO), quench, temper. A 30 minute operation.

Now, if you look up recommended HT for 1095, for instance, you find that to get the most from the steel, you've got precise temps, hold times, and about a 3 or 4 hour process. That's not practical in an open charcoal forge run by an amature like myself. I've gotten pretty useable results with the older traditional technique. I'm sure it would be better if I followed the more modern procedures, but....

Havin' fun yet, Mokwepa?

J
 
Maskedman,

Nope, this is pure amature forging!

There are basically 2 ways to make a knife. You can hit steel until it's knife shaped, or you can carve away all the steel that isn't knife with files and grinders.... Many very professional knife makers use both techniques, both turn out very good blades....

I forge because I love the primal nature of fire, steel and hammer. And I was able to assemble the equipment on the cheap. Excluding fuel, my setup has me out only about $400.... Fuel costs me about $15/8 hour day, burning Royal Oak Natural Lump charcoal....

J
 
There is no heating after the guard goes on.

Oil quench and just don't stick to tang in. You'd prefer to edge quench and then quench the whole blade. Just leave the tang to air cool unquenched.
 
The sun is catching it bad but the blade is straw colored. I did overheat the point though with the tempering. It started to turn a brownish color.

Ill wait till the scabbard is finished then put on some more pics.

I need some ideas for a carry knife ie: smallish low profile utility knife. Any of you have ideas?, i have a blade design in mind but would like to do something different with the gaurd/handle.

Is it possible to platt steel? I thought of cutting the tang into three strips and then heat and platt. Think its possible?
 
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