American Business (.204 Ruger discussion)

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Gerald Sage

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People are talking about the failure of the Ruger 204..............They deserve it because THEY THOUGHT they could STEAL all of Kindler's work on the fabulous 20's at the Woodchuck Den and pay him no Homage or $ . I am sorry,but is this the state of American business ? I think it is !!! Because ,IF they had asked his advice (Tactical 20 was his ), I think it would be different .Jerry / Spencerport ,N.Y. ps-he invented about 5 twenties.Is Small Caliber news still printed ? Hope I have not ruffled any feathers.
 
Hi Gerald, welcome to THR.

Who is Kindler?

Subcaliber varmint rifles are a bit of a special interest item. Important to the folks waging war against The Chipmunks, a novelty to the rest of us.
 
People are talking about the failure of the Ruger 204
What people? Is the .204 a failing round? There's a lot of new and fairly new cartridges around these days. A very few are going quite strong and most seem to gain limited support. From what I've heard .204 seems to be doing moderately well. Do you have information to the contrary?

They deserve it because THEY THOUGHT they could STEAL all of Kindler's work on the fabulous 20's at the Woodchuck Den and pay him no Homage or $ .
Who deserves it?
Who is Kindler? What's the Woodchuck Den?

We're going to need some supporting info here.

Are you saying that Ruger and Hornady owed a fellow named Kindler credit for developing the cartridge? Do you have information about his relationship to those companies and why they would have owed him something? Or that they didn't pay him something they did owe him?

I am sorry,but is this the state of American business ? I think it is !!!
Hornady and Ruger have developed several cartridges together. But necking up or down one cartridge to make another cartridge has been going on forever, with extremely overlapping characteristics. The list of which wildcatters stole/borrowed an idea from someone else or simply reinvented something that someone else had already developed is unfathomably long.

Because ,IF they had asked his advice (Tactical 20 was his ), I think it would be different .
Ok, what would be different about it? And if his Tactical 20 is different from the .204, how is it reasonable to claim that they owe him something for the design?

There really isn't enough difference between cartridges to make them easily patent-able. Read this: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2016/04/12/can-wildcatter-patent-cartridge-design/

And in the end the only real benefit you can derive from "inventing" (or re-inventing...there's little actually new under the sun) a cartridge comes from your ability to market the idea to a major manufacturer who can drive that product into the hands of thousands of shooters. Otherwise, it's done for the pure love of the hobby. If you're inventing a "best" new cartridge (by modifying other cartridges, of course) and waiting for the royalties to roll in, that's going to be a fool's errand.

IF a major manufacturer decides that something like you've come up with is a hot seller, all they'd have to do is change the shoulder angle, or the length of the neck, or use a slightly different parent case, and they've got different design and you have even less than no claim on them.

ps-he invented about 5 twenties
Cool.

Is Small Caliber news still printed ?
Don't know. I haven't heard of it before.

Hope I have not ruffled any feathers.
Certainly not. We just want to make sure we know what you're upset about.
 
I have one of the Ruger .204's and the dies to reload. It is a great rifle and very fast with light bullets. I think that perhaps the originator of this thread has an axe to grind. Hopefully he will explain and answer some of the above questions.
 
Is the .204 a failing round?

I hope not. I have a 204 Ruger Bolt and AR rifles that I use, and like, for prairie dogs.

It may be a result of the shortages during the past few years but new cases have been in short supply.

I need to see if availability is improving.
 
The 204R isn't dead. I had coyote calling and varminting customers ask for 8 204R's last year as rebarrels or virgin build, which was about half of the non-223/5.56 rifles I did last year. I'm not a large scale builder, so having such a high percentage of 204's requested, I'd say it's far from dead. They slowed down a bit between 2012-ish timeline through now, as a lot of predator hunters and varmiinters already have their 204, or they are favoring things like the 6.5grendel, 6-6.8, etc. There has been a lot of traffic on other predator calling and varminting forums I use, and I haven't noticed a significant draw down of factory model offerings nor ammunition offerings online or in stores.

Welcome to the forum, and all of those obligatory pleasantries, but I can say straightly I do not believe your rant is justifiable or defensible. JD Jones can get worked up about the use of his copywritten ".300 Whisper," and feel wronged by the Blackout, Alphin can feel wronged about the "260 Remington," but I really don't think Kindler has a significant case to take exception at the 204 Ruger...

I'll also say, there are a lot of reloaders running the 20 tac and 20 prac, simply because the 223/5.56 brass is readily available, but factory rifles and mass produced barrels in 204 Ruger are MUCH more common than these reloaders.

This is one where I'd say - pick your battles, and this particular one doesn't make any sense to me.
 
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