TnRebel
Member
I have a guy here that has a cpl of cases of this in FFFG and he will sell me a case for $10.00 a Lb. my question is, has anyone tried it and what do you think of it -- I have never used anything but real BP
American Pioneer Powder ??
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ewb45acp
Member
I like real BP better. I've used AP in the past and it gets lumpy real fast after you break the seal on the bottle. And it doesn't smell as good as the real deal.
sundance44s
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Sundance44s
At 10 bucks a can i`d buy it as long as it`s the 3 f and not the 2f ....the stuff makes lots of white smoke ..and it really doesn`t have a smell ..nothing like the chemical smell of the other subs. The 3f will meter if ya load cases with it ...the 2f is really large chunks like cannon grade powder ..really hard to meter or measure .
At 10 bucks a can i`d buy it as long as it`s the 3 f and not the 2f ....the stuff makes lots of white smoke ..and it really doesn`t have a smell ..nothing like the chemical smell of the other subs. The 3f will meter if ya load cases with it ...the 2f is really large chunks like cannon grade powder ..really hard to meter or measure .
TnRebel
Member
Thanks guys -- just closed the deal , and I'm going to use it in my three wheel guns in 44,36, cal. 
and it is the 3f
and it is the 3f
arcticap
Member
It was your lucky day to find such a good deal.
Desert Scorpion
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The only Powder I use is American Pioneer for all my BP firearms. I have used all those other’s and the only other I think of using is Goex . Why? Well American Pioneer burns very clean and makes even more smoke which is great and gives you a very powerful feeling and it cleans so good when your done
Howdy Doody
Member
APP sells for $21 a ound around here in the toy stores. On the other hand there is a new powder from Goex called Pinnacle that is made by APP for Goex. My experience with that so far is that it does not clump and meters better with less fines than APP. Shooting is the same as APP however and cleans up just as nice. I tried some and then bought a case, but after hazmat and shipping it still runs over $15 a pound. APP and Pinnacle does smoke about more than any other powder I have tried.
I just started using APP this year and after cleaning and dry patching the barrel I would notice a dry white residue that was almost like a varnish. The stuff was a real pain to get out. I shot the bore dry, no lubes at all. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this? I've gone back to 777 as I'm concerned this stuff might pit my barrels.
arcticap
Member
I still haven't opened my first can of APP yet, but I'm still shooting some of its predecessor, CleanShot. I've noticed that white stuff and checked it out again just now in my gun barrel from which I discharged my hunting load yesterday. I didn't find it to be varnish like after 1 100 grain shot, but rather powder like and soft, and a very tiny bit tacky or chalky to the touch, sort of like an extra fine corn starch, dextrose or lactose. I personally haven't shot enough of that powder at any one time to worry much about any wear and tear on any of the barrels used. The thought did cross my mind at one point early on in it's use, but I soon dismissed it.
But then I'm shooting either patched round balls where the lubed patch is contacting the barrel interior, or [usually] sabots with it, where plastic is meeting the bore, and swabbing can be done between shots if there was a continuing concern about it.
If a person shoots bare lead (like in a revolver or shotgun), or bare copper jacketed bullets (like in a centerfire), I would speculate that more friction and barrel wear could be caused by those harder/denser substances than by this residue.
A lot of Russian ammo now has "bimetal" jackets, and for a time I did think that material might create more barrel wear than lead or copper even though its supposedly softer than plain steel bullets, but millions of people shoot the ammo and never have I heard complaints about any premature barrel wear associated with their use.
There are acids, salts and corrosive biproducts in black powder too, and that doesn't stop too many people from shooting with it, while others highly praise it.
There's always going to be trade offs when choosing one product over another. I try not to use metal bore brushes to clean my guns either unless I think it's necessary, because they can create extra wear in some circumstances. It's the same with metal cleaning rods, ramrods and other things that one allows to enter their bore.
So there are choices to make, and you have made yours based on your gut feeling, which is your freedom of choice.
I wish there was a scientific report to indicate just how harmful the residue actually is to gun barrels. But since most barrels seem to be made to last a lifetime (or more), I'm just not sure how bad the residue truely is.
I don't really think it would "pit" a bore. At the worst, it might cause something like what running water does to rocks over millions of years, make them nice and smooth, which is going to happen after a countless number of shots anyway, whether it's caused by the powder, primer, bullets, cleaning regimen or a combination of all of these factors.
But then I'm shooting either patched round balls where the lubed patch is contacting the barrel interior, or [usually] sabots with it, where plastic is meeting the bore, and swabbing can be done between shots if there was a continuing concern about it.
If a person shoots bare lead (like in a revolver or shotgun), or bare copper jacketed bullets (like in a centerfire), I would speculate that more friction and barrel wear could be caused by those harder/denser substances than by this residue.
A lot of Russian ammo now has "bimetal" jackets, and for a time I did think that material might create more barrel wear than lead or copper even though its supposedly softer than plain steel bullets, but millions of people shoot the ammo and never have I heard complaints about any premature barrel wear associated with their use.
There are acids, salts and corrosive biproducts in black powder too, and that doesn't stop too many people from shooting with it, while others highly praise it.
There's always going to be trade offs when choosing one product over another. I try not to use metal bore brushes to clean my guns either unless I think it's necessary, because they can create extra wear in some circumstances. It's the same with metal cleaning rods, ramrods and other things that one allows to enter their bore.
So there are choices to make, and you have made yours based on your gut feeling, which is your freedom of choice.
I wish there was a scientific report to indicate just how harmful the residue actually is to gun barrels. But since most barrels seem to be made to last a lifetime (or more), I'm just not sure how bad the residue truely is.
I don't really think it would "pit" a bore. At the worst, it might cause something like what running water does to rocks over millions of years, make them nice and smooth, which is going to happen after a countless number of shots anyway, whether it's caused by the powder, primer, bullets, cleaning regimen or a combination of all of these factors.
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dwave
Member
APP leaves a white residue on my guns, but I have never found it to be hard to remove. I have shot one of my pistols and left it about a week to see if it would rust, and it didn't, but I don't have high humidity. I would always clean after firing them, but I did it as a test.
articap, I think you described the residues consistancy better than I but I'm talking about a couple hours worth of shooting at the range. dwave, glad to hear that there was no damage to your pistol, that puts my mind at ease a bit. I must say the stuff is very consistant in both my son's Omega and my Knight Disc but the almost rust colored residue (looking at the bore / muzzle from an angle) kinda bothered me even after giving it a good cleaning. It was kinda like articap described when shining a light directly down the barrel and was more pronounced close to the breech. Then on top of the fact that on another website, "chuckhawks" I believe, one tester said the stuff is major hygroscopic. Interesting read but his experiences don't jive with mine, maybe he was talking about it in it's unfired state as it wasn't clear to me. That's not been my experience as the one pound I had was a couple of years old and was shooting a very consistant 2" groups at 100 yards. I'd think if that powder had absorbed alot of moisture it wouldn't perform that well. Anyway, I suppose I won't kick it to the curb just yet.
One other thing, I've read reports of how much slower APP is than the competition but the point of impact was so close between the APP and 777 at 100 that I didn't touch the scope. FWIW
One other thing, I've read reports of how much slower APP is than the competition but the point of impact was so close between the APP and 777 at 100 that I didn't touch the scope. FWIW
Doc Rizzi
Member
American Pioneer Powder
I use it in my .50 hawken and in my .44 pistols. It is very clean, measures exactly as goex and cleans up well with warm water afterwards. Try it and see what you think.
I use it in my .50 hawken and in my .44 pistols. It is very clean, measures exactly as goex and cleans up well with warm water afterwards. Try it and see what you think.
arcticap
Member
Lifttech,
I did notice a small amount of the brownish residue that you mentioned left over after my initial barrel swabbing, but it doesn't appear to be much different than the brown residue left over after shooting some .22 ammos (Aguila/PMC comes to mind with it's distinctive smell).
The best way to deal with it is to swab it out periodically during a shooting session using what you find to be the most effective solvent.
After it builds up too much, only accuracy should be affected by it as with any other powder.
I did notice a small amount of the brownish residue that you mentioned left over after my initial barrel swabbing, but it doesn't appear to be much different than the brown residue left over after shooting some .22 ammos (Aguila/PMC comes to mind with it's distinctive smell).
The best way to deal with it is to swab it out periodically during a shooting session using what you find to be the most effective solvent.
After it builds up too much, only accuracy should be affected by it as with any other powder.
dstorm1911
Member
Cabelas was selling it for $9.00 per pound a few months back so I bought 5 cans of the 3F, same white residue that tended to foul cylender on my 3 1858 remmys much faster than Goex will, the smoke also tends to set off hay fever like sneezing fits with me so its just sitting in the ammo room......
White gunpowder just didn't seem right anyhow
White gunpowder just didn't seem right anyhow
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