American Rifle

[Maverick223]

Many countries did the muzzle-loader and then the falling block single shot.

The falling block was designed in the US though...right? Searched but came up short...I thought that the Sharps 1874 was the first...but may be wrong.

 

[Cosmoline]

If this poll had been taken in 1976 (BiCentennial) or 1955 (Davy Crockett Craze) muzzleloading long rifle would have gotten alot more votes.

Indeed. And before Saving Private Ryan the Garand would not have gotten half as many. It's also tied up with a little hero worship of the "greatest generation." Not that that's a bad thing or undeserved, but it's a factor. I think in another fifty years when everyone is buried we'll have a little better perspective on things.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

Garand. We haven't won a major-war since we adopted the Armalite rifle. Nuff said.

 

[WVMountainBoy]

As soon as I read the question the anser in my head was Win 94...

 

[dscottw88]

I'm in love with the AR15, and I own plenty, along with an M1. But I still believe the M1A or M14 type rifle is one of the best rifles ever produced.

 

[Mr. Bojangles]

Dang, that's a really tough choice. Better get one of each and decide for yourself.

 

[skidooman603]

See below

 

[skidooman603]

Hammerhead6814
Member



Join Date: April 6, 2009
Posts: 210 Garand. We haven't won a major-war since we adopted the Armalite rifle. Nuff said.

Don't think you can blame a rifle for this

 

[Art Eatman]

Maverick, my point is not about where something was invented. It's the mix of both invention and widespread usage.

For example, the Garand is but one of several semi-automatic military rifles. The AR is but one of several pistol-grip military rifles. Same deal for Mauser, Enfield and Springfield bolt-action rifles. All of these have some resemblance to rifles of other countries.

The lever gun is the only one which was predominantly been an American rifle. Basically, perfected in the US and mostly used in the US. FWIW, I'd bet that even the modern Browning lever actions don't get many sales outside the US.

Let this question come up outside the US, and it's gonna be John Wayne and a Winchester 94. I was in a bar in Marseille in 1957 and the anti-America folks found out I was from Texas. To them, Texas wasn't the US government. They got me drunker'n a rat, me telling lies about cowboys and Indians.

 

[Harve Curry]

1st: The lever action Winchester 1894 30 WCF (now 30-30) another John Browning design. Lever actions of all the USA makers are indispensable to Americana.
2nd: The M1 Garand overcame many evils around the globe during WWII, operated by men who most likely had early experience with a lever action.

 

[Maverick223]

Maverick, my point is not about where something was invented. It's the mix of both invention and widespread usage...The lever gun is the only one which was predominantly been an American rifle. Basically, perfected in the US and mostly used in the US. FWIW, I'd bet that even the modern Browning lever actions don't get many sales outside the US.

Well in that case Win 94' or a 1895 (Ted Roosevelt's favorite) would have to be top of the list.

et this question come up outside the US, and it's gonna be John Wayne and a Winchester 94. I was in a bar in Marseille in 1957 and the anti-America folks found out I was from Texas. To them, Texas wasn't the US government. They got me drunker'n a rat, me telling lies about cowboys and Indians.

LOL; The lever is an icon of the American West, no arguing that.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

The 1906 Springfield in 30-06

 

[22lr]

Of those listed it would be the Garand. Of those not listed I would go with the Winchester 1892 and clones in 44/40 and 45lc. Leverguns are purebred American.

 

[BCRider]

Walter Oakley said;
You seem to be fixated on how guns work today rather than the actual historical weapons and how they were iconic weapons of America. And this comment seems very strange in that context. Have you ever heard of the Sandy Hook tests of 1889.

Sorry, I guess I didn't realize it would draw that interpretation. It's not that the gun or the round can't reach out much further but rather that the peep sights can make for some fun in using them to direct the bullet. It was the fun and challenge of using the peep that I was reffering to.

I suggested the 45-70 based on reading that report along with the fact that it's an American cartridge that really made a mark in the rifle use field. And if it can be used along with the old style gun and peep sight to humble a few modern gun owners then it would be something to smile about. But I agree with the implication in your comment on how many folks these days are quick to dismiss the performance of the older cartridges and figure that if you don't have a magnum something or other than you may as well not leave home.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

Don't think you can blame a rifle for this

Other than it's lacking in areas that rifles like the Garand excel in? Like stopping power (oh thats right, Stopping Power is a myth to AR owners)? Or reliability? Or maybe it's just that the AR platform simply does not inspire a lot of confidence? Soldiers have been complaining about that rifle since Veitnam, and well into today. No one doubted the M1 Garand's ability to put lead down range that would kill what it hit. No one doubted that it would fire.

How about we just look at the US Military's record from before and after the adoption of the AR/M16 platform eh?

Before the AR-15:

Revolutionary War - Won
War of 1812 - Ended on a Treaty
Civil War - Won (note I said "US Military", the Confederate Army thereby not being the US Army)
Spanish-American War - Won
Philippine–American War - Won
Mexican-American War - Won
World War I - Won
World War II - Won
Korean War - Ended in Truce

Since the AR-15:

Veitnam - Lost
Grenada - Won (if you can call that a War, but I got to give AR's something)
Gulf War - Ended with Sadam in power and left us one hell of a mess.
Afganistan - Still going after nearly nine years, twice as long as WWII.
Iraq - Ending with us pulling out and the Iraqis cheering for us to leave.

So thats six wins, two truce/treaty for prior to the AR.

That's one surefire loss, two long-ass wars which have had no victory so techincally losses, one loss on grounds that we didn't accomplish any long-term victory (Gulf War), and one win on a tiny island that had a mere three days of fighting!

With the AR we haven't seen victory. With the AR we have to make excuses and look for the dim light we call a bright side. And let me tell you something, the light? It's in a very large, very dark cave.

 

[Maverick223]

Yes the lever gun was developed in the US but it had very little impact on anything except Hollywood.

Dead wrong...was it used in many conflicts...no (but it was used in at least one (Winchester 1895 in the Spanish-American War); but the lever action rifle has probably killed more deer in the US than all other repeating rifle designs combined. It is also an icon of the American West, even if it wasn't the most commonly used design (the single shot rifle or shotgun was). While I still prefer a nice falling block design, it had a pretty big impact, like it or not.

 

[Maverick223]

How about we just look at the US Military's record from before and after the adoption of the AR/M16 platform eh?

I don't particularly care for the AR, but can you really blame the rifle for the record...I think it has nearly nothing to do with it...morale, organization, style of combat, types of combatants, and the administration have much more to do with the outcome than small arms. If not...why on earth did we win the Revolutionary War? We had little supplies, poor weaponry (in general), but great leadership, morale, and the style of combat was more conducive to victory.

 

[lionking]

Hammerhead,we won the Gulf war,we did what we set out to do.As far as Vietnam and Iraq,America and it's allies had and have won just about every battle in those wars,it is just the type of war they are sorry to say are unwinable war because you are not battling a conventional army.You can win just about every battle but still loose the war.

Vietnam in the early part had plenty of Garands and M14's and carbines being used and I doubt the outcome would have been any different if the M16 would never have been introduced.

All the above choices are true American icon firearms but I got to go with the lever rifle as the choice of the poll.