Ammo Choice for CC use?

[Tilos]

OP hasn't been back to post any responses for a while.
It may have been the tone of all the recent posts.... or this is just another troll thread.
I hope not.
I'll just leave this link here as it might be of some interest to the OP if he's lurking here:
USCCA (deltadefense.com)
jmo,
.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Full size 9MM’s I use 147 grain HST and for short barreled 9’s 124 gr HST.

.357 Sig gets 125 gr Gold Dot JHP

.40’s get the 180 gr HST

10MM gets 180 gr XTP

.45’s get 230 gr Gold Dot JHP.

 

[herrwalther]

There are dozens of variables that play into choosing a SD cartridge. The three I consider most important are reliability, availability, and accuracy. A SD round isn't going to do much good if it doesn't feed well in your firearm, you cannot find/afford it, and can't hit with it. Performance measures like penetration, expansion, and retained weight are important considerations but minute. A 9mm hollowpoint from a dozen companies will perform similarly to one another in testing. By the same token, you won't know exactly how a bullet performs until you test it in your firearm anyway. And most of us don't have the ability to do accurate ballistic testing for SD rounds. So Youtube helps.

 

[45CalPal]

And agree, it is not about blowing their lungs out. It is about stopping the threat.

Amen brother, atleats one person gets it...

Im in no way not going to shoot when fired upon in an emergency deadly situation, and I will live with the results either way.....
But its always best you both survive.

 

[PCFlorida]

I carry to keep myself and my lovely wife safe, so if I ever have to shoot someone I don't really care if they are wounded or deceased. I don't shoot to kill I shoot to stop the threat. Currently carrying a Sig P365 with Sig 124 grain Elite V-Crown. I think most of the brand name self defense ammo is about the same in performance.

 

[Craig_AR]

Several current or former LEOs posted in this thread that they carry Hornady Critical Duty. I think all would find very interesting the differences between Critical Duty and Critical Defense: essentially same bullet tip, but different bullet weights and powder loads. After reading Hornady's own descriptions, I chose Critical Defense.
Critical DUTY® & Critical Defense® Differences - Hornady

Hornady Critical Defense vs. Critical Duty: Which is Better? - NRA magazine

 

[herrwalther]

Several current or former LEOs posted in this thread that they carry Hornady Critical Duty. I think all would find very interesting the differences between Critical Duty and Critical Defense: essentially same bullet tip, but different bullet weights and powder loads. After reading Hornady's own descriptions, I chose Critical Defense.
Critical DUTY® & Critical Defense® Differences - Hornady

Hornady Critical Defense vs. Critical Duty: Which is Better? - NRA magazine

Years ago I carried Critical Defense in my Ruger SR9c (3.4" barrel) and Critical Duty in my Ruger P94 (4.3" barrel). I got a lot of questions why I carried two different types of ammo in virtually the same gun.

 

[CapnMac]

This bears repeating:

A SD round isn't going to do much good if it doesn't feed well in your firearm, you cannot find/afford it, and can't hit with it. Performance measures like penetration, expansion, and retained weight are important considerations but minute.

I have long held something I was told long ago--that if you do not consistently practice with your SD load, it will be a great mystery when at a time of greatest need for surety. Which is why I have always stayed away from the various "super death kill magnum" rounds out there. Like Glazers at $3 per each, or the RIPs at around $6 per each.

As six round or ten round "group" is no real group at all. Tossing down $40 or $60 once a month is a very spendy way to be semi-confident in how your SD ammo "points"--and performs, too. All the wonderammo out there, for all that it is touted as being more sure than first bicycles and sliced bread, is pointless if it jams, fails to feed, ejects perversely, or any of the ills ammo can go through.

OP questioned many thing, and one stood out to me, the question on penetration.
This is a poorly understood thing for being common use.
The "FBI standards" are based on a artificial (if uniform) test medium--ballistics gel.
The FBI asserts that they have, extensively (and if there's anything the Feebs do well, it's research and collate data), compared actual shooting to performance of the same ammo in the testing medium.

By aggregating the data, you can "average out" the variables in armed combat. Confounding things like heavy clothing, defensive postures where arms or legs are raised in protection, all those things that muddy up the calculus of such things. From that data, they converted that into penetration depth in inches in a engineering repeatable medium.

So, the quoted penetration values are just that--how far a given ammo pokes into ballistics gel. (Which despite numerous statement to the contrary does not resemble animal bodies at all--which are not at all uniform and are filled with a great deal of void spaces and the like.) It's about repeatability and uniformity.

 

[starling]

I pretty much stick to FMJ ball or flat nose if I can find it in pistols. 357sig gets Liberty Defense. Revolvers get different stuff. Wadcutters in 38 snubbies.

Those glazers are no joke. People seem to hate them but they will do nasty things. When I was a kids were ran some blue dots through a beretta on a deer carcass and the results were impressive for 9mm. Never tried the silver tips Glazers.

 

[Kleanbore]

I have long held something I was told long ago--that if you do not consistently practice with your SD load, it will be a great mystery when at a time of greatest need for surety.

I do not agree with that.

As long as the sD load functions, what is important is how the POI compares to practice rounds.

 

[CapnMac]

what is important is how the POI compares to practice rounds.

And how do you know that. My thinking is practice, practice, practice.

 

[Ralph III]

And how do you know that. My thinking is practice, practice, practice.

It's called research. You inquire as to what quality SD ammo runs reliably through your particular firearm and then you practice with it. As long as you find that it indeed performs reliably in your firearm THEN it's a matter of choosing practice ammo that performs similarly. There is no reason to practice regularly with expensive SD ammo when you can practice with similar performing range ammo. Because practice ammo is significantly less expensive it allows for more range visits. Having said that, I do run some SD ammo through my gun on occasion in order to re-affirm reliability and POI, as Kleanbore noted.

God Bless,
Ralph

 

[JR24]

Whatever US brand name HP that is on sale and works reliably in my gun.

Pretty much. I prefer HST (because it runs well in all my guns) but I’m not super picky when it comes down to it.

 

[mokin]

Presently my usual carry gun is loaded with Critical Duty from Hornady. A dozen years ago or so the selection for 10mm Auto wasn't that great. I carried Silvertips for a long time. I eventually shot all those and have used both Sig V Crowns and the Hornady load I have now. I haven't chrono'd the Sig ammo but I suspect it is comparatively "under powered" for a 10mm.

All of those are expanding bullets.

 

[HighRoadRover]

For 9mm, a 124 grain JHP from any of the very good brands that the local police are likely to use: Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, Remington Golden Saber, Sig V-Crown, Hornady Critical Defense, etc. All of these will more or less meet the FBI standard for penetration and have good expansion with retention of most or all of the bullets' weight.

Lucky Gunner has posted a list of 9mm bullet ballistic and penetration characteristics. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm

I'd avoid off-brands and foreign companies for self-defense ammo, although I'd guess that some of them are probably okay.

Whatever you select should be tested in your carry gun for reliability. Each round you actually carry should be plunk tested in the chamber of the carry pistol, rolled on a flat surface to ensure it is concentric, and examined to ensure it has a primer and the bullet is seated to the right depth.

In a small, light gun (e.g., the Hellcat, the P365, the Ruger Max-9, etc.) it would benefit accuracy, follow-up shots, and general gun handling to skip +P ammo.

For carry in woods where the threat is likely to be a large four-legged critter, then either a Buffalo Bore hard-cast (solid lead) bullet or a Lehigh Penetrator (solid copper) bullet (or a Black Hills Honey Badger, which appears to use the Lehigh bullet). The idea being that heavy, solid bullets will penetrate skulls, heavy coats, and thick critter bodies to a greater depth, which is good when shooting a large animal.

 

[WisBorn]

Different carry handguns and situations equals different loads!

1) 380 acp - 100 xtp
2) 38 special +p - 125 xtp
3) 38 special - 158 xtp
4) 357 mag - 158 semi jacketed flat nose
5) 357 mag - 180 hardcast (wilderness hiking)
6) 41 mag - 230 hardcast (hiking carry)
7) 45/410 - 2 1/2" 7s (snake loads)
8) 45 acp - 185 hp or 230 hp (not carried often XDM compact is just a little big)

 

[golden]

I use FEDERAL HST 130 grain jhp +P ammo as carry ammo in my .38 Special +p revolvers and HST 124 grain standard pressure ammo in my 9m.m. full and medium size guns. I also use FEDERAL 180 grain HST in my .40 S&W pistols. I stick with HST as much as possible unless the gun itself or intended use requires something else. My agency was quite pleased with the performance of the 180 grain HST in our .40 caliber pistols. I have seen no evidence that any other line of ammo is superior, though some of the other premium ammo works very well.

I specified the guns because for some guns, I use a different load. In my SIG 365, I use the HORNADY 100 grain FTX LITE loads to keep recoil at a tolerable level in this very compact and light pistol. I tried the 9m.m. HST and found that it was much harder for me to control and maintain accurate and rapid fire. I also tried the FEDERAL 9m.m. jhp load and it was still pushing my handling limits. I know that the HORNADY FTX ammo works well enough, so I am willing to use the LITE load till something better comes along.
In my alloy framed .38 Special revolvers, I stick with standard pressure ammo. I like WINCHESTER Defend 130 grain hollow points in my alloy S&W model 12. I have used +P in the past, but this ammo seems to work fine. I also have tried DOUBLE TAP standard pressure 110 grain jhp ammo, but this ammo has a louder blast, brighter flash and more recoil, so for the moment, I stick with the WINCHESTER.

I have some of the FEDERAL HST +P 9m.m. ammo, but the increased noise, flash and recoil do not seem to justify it in my BERETTA 92 Compact or SIG 229.

In my .357 magnums, I either use the FEDERAL HST .38 Special 130 grain jhp +P load or the DOUBLE TAP +P .38 Special loads which at over 1100 fps are pretty impressive. I used to use the 110 grain jhp .357 ammo that was my service issue load when we still carried revolvers, but the new premium bullets make up the performance difference with better performing bullets at lower velocity and less recoil.
I recently blasted out some REMINGTON 125 grain sjhp .357 magnum and NORMA 158 grain fmj .357 magnum ammo out of my 6 inch barreled S&W 586. It was not bad at all, thanks to the weight, barrel length and MAGNA PORTS, but the overall size of the gun makes it a poor concealed carry gun.


Jim

 

[Gus Gustovshon]

I’ll throw my hat in the ring.
I predominantly carry either of two pistols: SA Hellcat or G43. Both of these shoot center mass as well as I do drawing from the holster at 15 yards. A pistolero I am not. I run Federal Hydra-shok in the Glock; they run fine in it and I have some. I have Critical Defense in the Hellcat. They’re reliable and pretty accurate out of it. Here is my anecdotal, non-scientific study supporting the Critical Defense: I was having problems with hogs last fall. I was whittling the sounder down every few nights, if they came back. Mostly, I used buckshot and slugs from a Maverick 88, or a .41 Bisley Blackhawk (There are reasons for these selections, but that’s a different thread). One evening, we came in late after a road-trip. I took my little dog out to pee, and the hogs were out. I shot a sow with the Hellcat/Critical Defense (I had it IWB from the trip). My shot placement wasn’t perfect, she ran about 60 yards. Here’s my thought: this round killed a medium sized sow (100-125 pounds) with a mediocre shot at about 15 yards. Had it been a bad guy and he ran after taking a round: success. Had he remained a threat, I could have done a quick follow up. So for ME, I have confidence in this gun with this round, and will stick with it.

 

[Pure2nd]

What Im mostly getting at is the fact that if "you" were shot, and it was a thru n thru, it is more survivable, than as if it was a fragmenting RIP round.

So Im not asking what caliber and grain, But what actual type ie..Ball,HP, RIP etc..do you use to do the job and not totally (fataly) kill a person. As I have no intention to put them 6ft under, I just want to stop them and hospitalize them.

I carry what I practice with and practice with what I carry. (ball in 9, basic flat tip in 10)

Having witnessed 2 through and throughs...both with boutique jhp's, neither incident produced deformation of the round. In both situations I applied initial 1st aid and was able to examine the spent round.

The shot placement is where it becomes important.

If you are truely pressed to employ your defensive carry you won't be allowed the time to request your aggressor to hold still while you choose a less than possibly lethal use of that weapon.

To carry and think you're useage will be a less than lethal if utilized is not realistic IMHO.

Every discharge of your carry is a potential fatality, regardless of your choice of projectile.

Be safe

 

[skoro]

I like heavy-for-caliber hollow point rounds in +P if available.

9mm: 147gr

38: 158gr

45acp: 230gr

I think any top shelf hollow point will do well.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm a huge fan of Speer GDHP ammo in the .38 Special, 9mm and 45 ACP too. Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T ammo is also very good in the 45 Auto.

 

[Anchorite]

I’m running Federal 130 HSTs in my 38s, 135gr in my 9mm, 220 Critical Defense in my 45s, and 175 Hornday HDs in my 40s (or any 180).

Brand doesn’t matter as much to me as weight and profile does. YMMV

 

[webrx]

Silvertips mostly because that is what i started with for SD (and of course there is the werewolf aspect)
185 gr in my .45s,
115s in my micro 9s, 147s in my full size 9s

Wife prefers Critical defense in her 9s, so that is what she gets

Critical defense - All .380s

Federal punch in wifes pew pew 22 lcp2 lr - velociters prior to that

maxi mags .22 WMR LCR

d

 

[P5 Guy]

Gold Dot Short Barrel work well in my Glock26

 

[C-grunt]

Any time you are shooting someone it is lethal force. Shots to the arms and legs can indeed kill someone and does little to actually stop a determined attacker. I've seen a decent number of people who have died from gunshot would to the limbs. Tourniquets aren't widely used because wounds to the limbs are no big deal.