Who uses FMJs for Carry Ammo?

[OrangePwrx9]

Wadcutters? ....anyone? Seems like they'd work OK for the wheelgunners. The hole wouldn't be 'self-healing'.

 

[CorpITGuy]

Normal wadcutters are light loaded. So, unless you load them yourself you might not have enough velocity for expansion (or even enough penetration). I don't know though... I've never had the occasion to find out for sure (thank goodness). YMMV.

I enjoy threads like this one here at THR because, well, folks tend to take The High Road and avoid making it messy. In the process, I learn a lot (and question tightly held beliefs). I strongly agree with the comments that basically said you should always worry about over penetrating or missing your target, no matter what you're loading.

One point I'd like to make... for most of us, the "OMG, I've been shot" factor would be enough to stop an attack. Unfortunately, some of the drugs people are using these days takes that factor away, and this discussion becomes more than academic....

At the moment, I have my .357 (S&W Model 66-3) loaded with Fiocchi .357 158 GR Hollow Points.
My BUG is a Bersa .380 CC. It is loaded with Fiocchi 95 gr. JHP.

I am now reconsidering that, since FMJ is cheaper and apparently the penetration might be much better. I'm waffling on this one. The one big counterpoint seems to be that FMJ brands I've been finding are more cheaply made. The SD ammo I am able to find locally or available on the Internet in .380 ACP seems to be better made and more reliable.

 

[rondog]

I've heard of folks carrying wadcutters made from hard lead, they're supposed to be devasting s/d rounds. I just loaded up some 230 gr. Gold Dots last night, so I swapped out my FMJ's. Actually, they weren't FMJ's, they were plated LRN target loads. When you don't have any high-tech s/d ammo, ANY type bullet will be better than none.

 

[BushyGuy]

I would carry FMJ in 9mm or .45 acp in a pinch, but i have JHP for now. 9mm FMJ is best for punching thru barriers and hitting the threat.

 

[dom1104]

JHP beats FMJ every time for SD ammo.


I do have 100 rounds of these tho, and I have no idea why.


http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=268


interesting enough to purchase I guess.

Would I hesitate using them if thats all I got? nope.


I have about 150 rounds of good GDHP ammo tho, so I doubt I will ever need to.

 

[berettashotgun]

.380 and under get the FMJ's.
My Beretta 84 and 85 have soft frame feed ramps and get a little chewed up by the more aggressive hollow-point bullet designs.
Besides, I play like I practice.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Normal wadcutters are light loaded. So, unless you load them yourself you might not have enough velocity for expansion (or even enough penetration)

Not entirely correct. First of all, I'm not aware of the need for a wadcutter to expand... its tip is already the full size of the caliber. As for penetration, even a light-loaded 148g 38 spl wadcutter at say 750 fps will still penetrate deeper than most any expanding ammo. Buffalo Bore makes some standard pressure 150g stuff that approaches 850 fps... it is some mean stuff. But I would even carry the lighter loads if needed.

I do have 100 rounds of these tho, and I have no idea why.


http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=268

Those are actually really good loads for hiking in the woods if all you have is a 9mm. I wouldn't dare carry those in an urban environment... prolly go right through 2-3 people before it stops.

 

[NCPatrolAR]

380 and under and it's FMJ. Over 380 and it's jhp

 

[tprice]

Interesting question. I've never checked ballistics, just gone on the recommendation of law enforcement officers I know - both active and retired.

HPs:
For the 9mm semiauto CCW, I carry Rem +P Golden Sabers (Brass JHP). And Speer Gold Dot JHP 180gr in the 40 cal (both are SIGs). My L-frame S&W 357 carries Golden Saber JHP 38 +P for home defense with a speedloader of semi-jacketed magnum hollowpoints for backup.

FMJ:
For my summer/backup piece, the Colt Agent 38 special carries 6 rounds of full-jacketed wadcutter - the aluminum framed revolver won't hold up well with a steady diet of +P, and when I tried some +P in it to see the recoil made follow up shots harder. Most of the "old guys" at the range carry the same. Some have said that the copper might be rough on the barrel, but I think the frame would crack before the barrel wears out.

So I would concur with the other posters in that I tend to use FMJ (in this case, JWC) rounds in the smaller calibers.

 

[bralph33]

Fmj/hp

Why not carry a staggered clip...You are only going to shoot a bad guy twice, once in the chest and once in the head, and if you decide to unload the clip while out for fun or practice, it does not cost much......I just make sure its staggered e/ the same load 185 or 230

 

[bralph33]

FMJ

Further more, David slue Goliath w/ a rock....a rock!!!!!!!!!!

 

[riverdog]

The only handgun I'd use FMJ with is my old Colt Gov't model .45ACP -- it doesn't do well with JHP's I've tried. My other Colt's/1911's (all .45ACP), Glocks (.45ACP, .40SW or 9x19) and revolvers do just fine with JHP's so that's what they would be loaded with for PD.

I don't agree with the argument that, "if FMJ is good enough for the military it's good enough for me". The military is looking to wound or kill combatants, not necessarily to immediately stop them. Wounding an enemy combatant can tie up other enemy combatants. The military doesn't mind over-penetration because the guy standing behind one enemy soldier is probably another enemy soldier -- that's a two'fer. Besides, FMJ ammo is cheaper than a good JHP and cheaper is always better when you're buying millions (billions?) of rounds.

Don't look to military requirements to define your PD needs.

 

[inSight-NEO]

I would carry ball if it were all I had. I often load one of my HD mags with the stuff (the primary mag containing JHP). But, this is to keep costs down as replacing my main HD load has become quite expensive. But, overall, I save the ball ammo for practice when I can.

Regardless, unless your weapon functions more reliably when using ball ammo, I see no real reason to carry such ammo if JHP is available to you.

 

[John Parker]

Why not carry a staggered clip...You are only going to shoot a bad guy twice, once in the chest and once in the head,

No, I am going to shoot the bad guy until he ceases to be a threat to me.

 

[armsmaster270]

In 9mm I have 1,000 rds of WW 147gr Sub Sonic JHP, 100rds WW 127gr +P+ Black Talons and a bunch of GDHP's and some ball for plinking.
I use the +P+ in my Sig 228 and the GDHP's in my S&W 6906
My GI 1918mfg 1911 .45 works fine with WW Ranger 230gr H.P.

 

[Big Bill]

I had more jams in my Springfield M1911 using HPs than when using FMJs. Do any of the rest of you have that problem with your .45 ACP?

 

[PO2Hammer]

This is my choice in self defense ammo in .45acp. Hornady 200 FMJ 'combat target' at about 860 fps.

Ignore the round on the left, it's a Sinterfire frangible.

 

[mljdeckard]

bralph-

Why do you think it's a good idea to not know for sure what you are about to shoot? You need to absolutely know what you are working with for every shot.

Reality does not reflect your notion that a gunfight is only going to be two shots. If you believe this, why carry more than two shots at all? Police AND civilians normally miss a lot and need more than one shot to stop the fight.

When you are using deadly force, you will continue to fire until: A: You run out of ammo; B: The target disappears from view; or C: The threat is stopped.

And big bill, no, my Kimber has been pretty flawless with either kind of ammo, but I've run a lot more FMJ than HP.

 

[inSight-NEO]

I had more jams in my Springfield M1911 using HPs than when using FMJs. Do any of the rest of you have that problem with your .45 ACP?

I cant speak for the M1911, but I had similar issues with my XD45ACP until I found this article (which happens to be related to a different caliber, but still pertinent). Its worth a read.

http://www.xd-hs2000.com/longsliderelease.html

Why not carry a staggered clip...You are only going to shoot a bad guy twice, once in the chest and once in the head, and if you decide to unload the clip while out for fun or practice, it does not cost much......I just make sure its staggered e/ the same load 185 or 230

Staggering is a bad idea on any level. I suggest, if cost effectiveness is of concern, to load the primary mag with JHP and the secondary or tertiary mag with FMJ. Consistency is the key here. Staggering ammo only leads to unnecessary confusion IMHO.

In addition, who says that two shots will be enough to successfully stop him/her/they; much less being able to pull off a "Mozambique" style series (two in the chest, followed by one in the noodle) while under extreme duress? This assumes way too much.

 

[outerlimit]

2) The purpose of the military in small arms combat, is NOT to KILL the enemy. It is to WOUND the enemy. When you Kill the enemy, his buddies look at him and say: "Sorry to lose you Fred". When you WOUND the enemy, 1 or 2 of his buddies have to drag his butt off the field; thus 1 shot effectively STOPPED 3 people from shooting at you instead of just 1.

I think this is a myth. Most of the time you see overkill instead because the U.S. military is smart enough to realize that most of the enemies it fights do not waste time and resources on wounded fighters.

 

[inSight-NEO]

The purpose of the military in small arms combat, is NOT to KILL the enemy. It is to WOUND the enemy. When you Kill the enemy, his buddies look at him and say: "Sorry to lose you Fred". When you WOUND the enemy, 1 or 2 of his buddies have to drag his butt off the field; thus 1 shot effectively STOPPED 3 people from shooting at you instead of just 1.

But then again, an opponent who is merely wounded can still fight (and shoot to kill).

Keep in mind, many on the battlefield also may try to transport the dead as well, thus leaving themselves vulnerable.

 

[Erik M]

I know that my brother carries FMJ's in the Bersa .380 he CC's. At the moment its not out of choice though its due to whats avalible at local retailers.

 

[Atroxus]

Contrary to popular belief JHP ammo *will* penetrate walls (multiple walls, not wall) Just take a look at http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm The also have tested shooting through car windshields.

I agree with riverdog that using what the military uses is not always the way to go for home/self defense ammunition since we have liability issues that the military does not.

Whoever said that .45 is less likely to "overpenetrate" due to mass of the bullet, may want to think again. I have heard that .45ACP perforates human targets 7 times out of 10. Additionally .45ACP will penetrate 27+ inches of ballistics gelatin. If I recall correctly anything that penetrates over 14 inches would generally exit the other side of a human target, which would mean a .45 has the potential to punch all the way through a human target and still have sufficient energy to seriously wound or kill a second. Here is a quote from an article by Massad Ayoob "The .45’s big bullet and well-earned reputation for stopping power make it more forgiving of less-than-optimum ammo choices, though you still want to stay away from full metal jacket because of its tendency to grossly over-penetrate, and to ricochet." The entire article is viewable here. http://www.tactical-life.com/online...ce-the-word-from-the-street/?email=exclusives

 

[okespe04]

I used fancy defense stuff because it is labeled "personal defense" for my carry and hd guns. My stockpile, shtf ammo is all fmj and I would feel very comfortable using it to defend myself if necessary.

 

[Guy de Loimbard]

I use FMJs when I'm carrying my 9x18's. Anything else - JHP.