Ammo failed and etched bolt face. Why'd it happen? Is the gun okay?

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coloradokevin

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I'll start with the picture, then give the longer explanation. I'll also say that I really don't think it was an issue of sloppy loading on my part, and I'm wondering if it was simply a bad primer, but more on that later:

IMG_4390_zpsa8e03e96.jpg


So, here's the deal:

I took 50 rounds worth of my normal load for my .260 Remington out to the range today, and round #47 performed as shown above. Prior to this shot I had no signs of pressure, and things were shooting just great. I was shooting at a 5.5" plate at 500 yards when this failure occurred, and this shot was a hit, along with the previous two shots (which makes me think it wasn't moving at any kind of substantially different velocity). The failure cut an etch into the bolt face of the rifle that is roughly the same shape as the area where the gas escaped.

I've used this particular load for about 250-300 rounds so far, and I'm pretty meticulous about my loading technique. I'm guessing that this may have been a bad primer issue, but I'm not certain I know how to avoid this kind of thing in the future. Moreover, I'm worried that this expensive rifle is damaged… if it is merely cosmetic I can deal with it, but I'm definitely concerned about accuracy and function.

Any thoughts on why this happened? Is the damage to the bolt face merely cosmetic, or should I expect accuracy problems, etc?



Here's what I can tell you about the load that was being shot at the time of the failure (and again, only one shot out of these fifty had a problem):

1) Lapua brass… this was its 4th firing. It had been full-length sized, then trimmed to 2.025", and the primer pockets were cleaned with a hand held tool.

2) Winchester large rifle primers. This happened about 850 primers into a box of 1,000

3) Lapua 139gr Scenar bullet, seated to a depth that put the bullet 0.042" off of the lands.

4) 41.4 grains of H4350 powder. I've run hotter before in this gun without pressure signs, and this is below the published book max. These days my powder is almost always from a newer lot, as I buy cans as I can find them, often 1 pound at a time (the obvious powder supply issue). But, I had already fired probably 70 shots from this can, so it wasn't just freshly opened. I weigh each charge on an RCBS Chargemaster Combo, and double check the pan weight before putting it into the case. There's no chance I overcharged the case, unless the scale is simply not working correctly.

5) This load previously went over the chronograph at 2,704 fps, on a colder day when the rifle was new, at the same elevation, using a slightly deeper bullet seating depth.

6) Today was a 73 degree day at the range, at 5,800 feet elevation. I've previously fired this load, from this rifle, on a 92 degree day.


Any insight into why this may have happened? How to prevent it? What to do next? Should I worry about the rifle?



Here are a couple more pictures:

cea7b632-32f4-428f-a0a2-2567e1f4d2cc_zps698f4b5c.jpg


The rest of today's ammo (no obvious pressure signs, no extractor marks, nothing other than the one problem shot):

IMG_4391_zpsf1adec5e.jpg


The bolt face (sorry, it was tough to photograph):

IMG_4396_zpse567e92c.jpg
 
Wow, that bolt face looks really ugly! It also looks like it may have been set back, hard to tell though in a picture though. Did the bolt face have that set back appearance prior to the blown primer?

As for the brass and primers, some of those appear to have significantly more / less flow than others? If the pictures are reliable in appearance, which they might not be, such variations in primer flow seems kind of unusual. And significant pressure variations with Lapua brass would seem even more unusual. But like I said, pictures don't always tell the whole story.

Even though I've never blown a primer or had a mis fire, it could still in fact be a bad batch of primers I suppose?

GS
 
Admittedly, the pictures were hard to take, and the bolt probably looks worse in that picture than it does in real life. It isn't really set back in the way I think it appears to you in that photo, and I haven't given it a thorough cleaning since this range trip (as such, I believe the combination of dirt/oil/carbon presents a bit of an optical illusion).

Really, the damage mostly consists of a "dimple" at about the 9-o-clock position on the bolt (as it appears in that photo), and it's similar in size to the hole that you can see in the primer on the other pictures.

Like you, I've never had this problem before, either. I usually load fairly moderate loads, and that's also typically where I find my best accuracy. I've never encountered anything like this out of any of the thousands of rifle rounds I've loaded over the years.
 
Looks like that primer pocket may have been a little over sized in diameter. Do those primers seat with a fair amount of resistance?
 
When I saw your pic, I immediately knew that you used a Winchester primer. I have had the same thing happen to me with some of their LRP's many years ago. While I still use Winchester large rifle primers, I restrict them to rather mild rifle loads.

Don
 
The brass looks like the primer pockets are beveled too much. I ran into the same thing on Rem 45acp brass. When you have a large bevel the primer is unsupported more and flow out to fill. In this case blew out.

Contact Olyn (win) on the primers with the lot info. They will probably want to look at the failure and a few good ones. Then they may request the all the primer of that lot to be returned. If they do they will handle every thing from there side. No cost to you. They will also pay for repair/replacement of the bolt. They normally replace your primers on a 2 for 1 for your trouble.
 
Its really not a mystery, it was a defective primer cup. They are drawn from brass sheeting and any deficit of defect in the brass sheet or in the draw will show up in the radius edge. Its thinner or brittle at that point and just fails under normal pressure. Id guess that looking at the bolt face, that you may have had more than 1 fail. It won't affect the accuracy or safety of the rifle, just bother the heck out of you. Winny may replace the bolt if you press them on the issue. I had a similar happening years ago while I was competing in BR. I had failures of a lot of orange/green box primers and the company were going to replace the bolt for me, but it was the middle of the competition season so I declined. It would have taken weeks or months to have done the replacement and the custom refitting of the bolt. That was 20+ years and thousands of rounds ago. No issues, just bothers the heck out of me. I still use the same companies primers, it was just a lot not up to the stresses I put them to. Tell Winny about it,replace the bolt if they offer and it satisfies you. Changes lots of primers and keep shooting. Note, they make untold millions of primers,(all the companies) and there is no way they can QC every primer produced, short of individual X-ray or some other inspection. Fact of life.
 
Thanks, everyone. Apparently the Winchester primer issue was known to a lot of folks, but not known to me. I've fired thousands of Winchester primers in the past, and never had a problem until now. But, the answers to this question have been pretty much they same on this forum, and another forum that I posted the question on… the majority of folks are pointing toward a primer failure, and the majority of folks seem to think that this happens too often with Winchester primers.

For me that is both good and bad news. Good news: there's a reasonable explanation for this failure. Bad news: I have about 4K Winchester LR primers left, and only 1K of another brand, and Win primers are all I'm finding on store shelves right now.

For those who were wondering, my problem primer came from LOT # CLL563G
 
As a follow-up to this problem, would I want to leave the primer in the brass if I send it to Winchester, or press it out?

If this is a manufacturing defect that they are willing to deal with, I'd like to give them whatever they need to figure out that this was actually their fault (but I don't want to give them all of my good brass, either — the piece where the primer failed is probably toast, so they can have that one if they want it).
 
Leave it in the brass exactly like it came out of the gun.

De-priming it first would be 'destroying the evidence'!

rc
 
Boy, that's scary stuff. Almost looks like it could be folded inward on that side. Definitely pierced the cup?
 
Olin went down hill especially after the labor dispute which closed the East Alton, IL plant in 2010. They fired 1000 employees and moved to Mississippi...QC hasn't been the same since. In all fairness, there were problems in East Alton too, like employees stealing huge amounts of copper and a corrupt union. Needless to say, Winchester is no longer on my buy list.
 
It's an Accuracy International (now you can imagine how upset I am about the situation).
 
As has been suggested contact Winny's customer service and send then photos. They may well man-up and replace the bolt.I don't know the cost of an AI bolt, but from what I know of say Stolle, they're probably ~500$ or more. Might as well start the process. Good luck.
 
I went through this too, in 44mag and 3006. Cracked at the shoulder, pits in my firearms. Olin wanted samples, mailed them, got gift certificate. This was over a year ago, and obviously nothing has changed. I burried 800 winchester primers.

edfardos
 
It is not exclusive to Winchester primers.Same thing happened to me with Remington 71/2 BR primers in a 222 Rem magnum.Most likely a poor primer pocket.
 
Defective primers.

Winchester offered to replace my bolt and did send me 5000 primers t replace the 1000 or so I had left.
 
Had zactly the same thing happen a few weeks ago with factory steel case wolf .223 55gr burdan primed.
Smoldered ton of smoke out the action area but did not damage bolt yeah was black but some cleaning was gtg.
The difference with my issue the bullet never left the case no bang just smoldered seemed like a long time but was really about 10 15 seconds. Wanted to clear the gun but was afraid the round may go off out of battery.
I don't think winchester will do a thing for you. They will never admit fault that would expose them to lawsuits.
I would chalk it up to one in a million put that case aside clean up the bolt and enjoy our hobby.
 
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Checking Load Data 260 Rem.

41.4 grains of H4350 powder. Lapua 139gr Scenar bullet. I've run hotter before in this gun without pressure signs, and this is below the published book max.
Does the data use the exact same bullet/brass/powder? Different Component = Different Pressure. A full power load may be ok in new brass for a few loadings. Primer pockets may get larger by a tiny amount at each firing, even with no pressure signs. Vihtavuori data uses 3 powders for that bullet. The H4350/N550 are close in burn rate and showing a maximum velocity of 2657fps with a 18 3/4" bbl. What is your barrel length? A gas leak between brass & primer from a loose pocket will look the same as a defective primer. But i do think the odds are more in favor of a defect.
 
Defective primers.

Winchester offered to replace my bolt and did send me 5000 primers t replace the 1000 or so I had left.
Sounds like they are going to take of you. Like I said earlier I went through the process a year ago. Still use there primers but not the same brass. I think mine were do to excessive bevel on the primer pocket give the primer too much room to flow. Was pretty obvious once I removed one and inspected it. So now all my RP brass is separated out.
 
I doubt I'll have a chance to reach then about this prior to the holiday weekend, but I do hope they'll take care of this for me, too.
 
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