An Alternative to Patterning Boards.....

[Dave McCracken]

By now, you probably know how I feel about patterning. Trouble is, not everyone has access to a proper board.

Also, one small problem pops up when patterning. Patterning boards do not move, birds and clays do. We may shoot one way at the board and another in the field or up on range 7.

Ed Clapper, who writes under the nom de plume of AverageEd in a column in Shotgun Sports magazine and on the BB at trapshooters.com, wrote about a good method of determining if your fit is correct, and what way to move things if not.

It takes a trap machine and range for best results.

Lock the trap so it only throws straightaways. Stand at Post 3.Screw in a tight choke. Premount your shotgun and call for the bird. Bust it and watch. Repeat maybe 10 times.

Elsewhere I wrote about reading your breaks. Long story short, if a big piece flies off, the clay was hit on the other side. ie, if the big piece flies up, the clay was hit on the bottom edge, if left, then hit on the right.

If you are busting birds with no big pieces, your shotgun comes pretty close to fitting you. But, if all the big pieces fly off in the same direction,you need to move your dominant eye over by altering the fit.

EXAMPLE....

The big pieces are flying right and up. You're hitting low and left. Move your eye up and right by moving the stock in those directions and retry. Cardboard, moleskin and shimming can all do a temporary job.

After doing this at Post 3 at 16 yards, move back some and try it from there. Try it from Posts 2 and 4 also. By this time, you should have a good idea of how that shotgun and load hits for you. Try this also from low gun, some folks shoot differently, some actually shoot better.

Questions, comments, gratuities?

 

[TrapperReady]

Truth be told, the method you described is basically how I pattern for fit. I can get a general idea of gun fit simply by mounting it several times, both eyes open and eyes closed. After that, I just shoot the thing at clay targets (thrown straight away) and watch what happens on the breaks. It's usually pretty obvious if the gun is hitting high/low or left/right.

If my gun is more of a collector's item, then I'll just make mental note of that fact and try to accomodate in my shooting. If it's not, then I'll make the necessary modifications to the stock to get it patterning where I want (usually just a shade higher than 50/50).

I use the pattern boards mostly to test for the coverage of the shot in a particular load, with a particular gun. The rest I determine by shooting. Unless I'm going to use the gun for shooting a lot of trap, I shoot from low gun, since that's what I do for SC and hunting.

 

[9mmMike]

The big pieces are flying right and up. You're hitting low and left. Move the stock in those directions and retry. Cardboard, moleskin and shimming will do a temporary job.

Which direction?

I have never been good at reading my hits. I just never see if I am behind, ahead, above or below. Maybe I can get an observer to come along....

Good post.

Mike

 

[sm]

Dave ,

Great Post my friend.

We are on the same page, even closing one's eyes and mounting gun to face 3 or 4 times and THEN opening the eyes on the last mount is revealing.

I understand what you are describing , being a Skeeter, I used Station 1 and 7 .

Now as most folks know in Skeet, we shoot crossers, reading the breaks reveals if one is raising their head, shooting behind the birds ...etc perhaps a bit more so. 5 stand and Sporting clay folks read the clays as well.

Take sta 2 high house...many folks miss behind. Low 2 many folks "ride the bird" then all of a sudden it is "here" and still shoot behind.

POA/POI is important , How much of the pattern does your gun shoot ( 60/40, 7/30)? Knowing and using the full potential when reading the pattern.

Now some that only shoot clays, can get into a ryhthm or set way of shooting, when they actually shoot afield , the bad habits, poor fit, and such really comes out - they don't have the ability to premount the gun and get all "scrunched" up and into the gun.

DO NOT read the Wad. All this tells you is a) you fired the gun, b) the loading had a wad.

Proper gun fit , or as Trapper pointed out KNOWING how the gun fit affects your shooting - will allow that scattergun to better be an extension of you.

Reading the target, be it clay or fowl will define what you did or did not do correctly.

Watch a oldtimer sometime, shooting the shotgun with the worn bluing. Notice how "effortless" his gun mount is, and the way he paints them out of the sky. If you were to time him ...it'll blow your mind. No chips, no large pcs flying off, DUST...Powder of what was.

Game birds are hit hard , fold and fall...

 

[TrapperReady]

Game birds are hit hard , fold and fall...

And stay put when they hit the ground. Nothing I hate more than having a pheasant get his landing gear down before hitting the dirt. If you don't have a good dog, you've probably just given up a big chunk of the next hour trying to find that bird.

Personally, I like to see them cartwheel a time or two. Then you can usually just walk over and pick 'em up.

Yup. The next dog will be taught to retrieve from a very early age.

 

[sm]

Trapper-

Your supposed to make them boys of yours go after the dog and the birds here in a few years. You and the Mrs. are "supposed" to collect dividends from all the diaper changing and stuff. Remember?

Once a kid makes a poor hit , and has to walk all over hell's half acre - the next time daddy says something about proper shotgunning - they "tend" to listen.

Kids have the light bulb go "click" and notice dad and mom are picking shots and not just filling the air with lead...eventually.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Dave - and Steve - more useful tips and reminders. As ever with my shottie shooting, infrequent tho it is - I need all the help I can get!

 

[kotengu]

I use a roll of butcher paper and several small black dots (aiming points). I don't understand how so many people can not pattern their shotgun - not patterning your shotty is like not sighting in your rifle.......

 

[sm]

Folks want instant gratification. Folks have ( or think they have) more disposable dollars. Why earn it - when you can buy it?

Nothing wrong from learning from folks with experiences - to help along the 'learning / earning curve" - problem is folks want to buy skill and targets.

The Internet , various magazines , and videos say " such and such".

Even the folks that compete, teach and instruct , go out and learn for themselves. These folks make a point(s) to others about "patterning your gun , with your loads".

NOPE - attitudes are : This person said/ typed/ I saw them - use "such and such" and that is what I'm going to do...

*shrug*

 

[dav]

Dave McC wrote:The big pieces are flying right and up. You're hitting low and left. Move the stock in those directions and retry. Cardboard, moleskin and shimming will do a temporary job.

Sorry Dave, but here is where you lose me.

So I'm hitting low/left. Moving the stock left and down clearly points the barrel right and up.

What's the cardboard, moleskin and shimming have to do with it?

I could understand saying I need to memorize where the butt fits into my shoulder to hit correctly, but how does shimming help attain this?

Sorry, I just don't get it. Why are all of you so far away?

 

[Spinner]

Dav

Perhaps the best way to think about it is your head and eye is effectively the rear sight with a shotgun. To shoot consistently you need to have the rear sight in the same place shot after shot. So with a shotgun you need to have the gun mounted the same way shot after shot. Consistency of mount is learnt thru instruction (to get the proper form) and repetition (to ingrain it into muscle memory).

Once you're consistent then you can use shims and moleskin to change the barrel's relationship to your eye. Shims can be inserted between the stock and receiver or between the recoil pad or buttplate and stock. Moleskin can be added to the stock to lift your eye relative to the barrel. This is exactly the same principle as adjusting the rear sight on a rifle or pistol.

I've recently shimmed my shotgun to give me 3/8" of cast off on a previous cast neutral gun. I'm hoping it'll make it easier for me to hit targets but I've been too busy to try it out yet. In 2 weeks time I'll have more time (and money) to play so I'll report back to class when I've turned some more money into noise.

Spinner

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, folks.

TR, I'm not the only one that uses something like this. Patterning boards work very well for those of us O/C enough to count pellet strikes. This works to see if one and one's shotguns are shooting where one's looking. And if I had some wild pheasant hunting available, I'd be shooting heavy loads through a tighter than usual choke. Pheasants take more killling than three lbs of bird ought to.

Mike, I edited to clarify. If it's still fuzzy, PM me and I'll walk you through.

sm, we're in the same pew.

Chris, you're very welcome.

Kotengu, I can't figure it out either. As important as breathing.

Dav, we'll get you going. First, a consistent mount is absolutely essential.

Shimming doesn't affect the mount. It affects where the dominant eye is positioned, thus affecting POI. Move the eye in the direction(s) you want the center of the pattern to move.

Spinner, 3/8" is a lot of cast. Let us know how it comes out.

 

[Spinner]

Dave McC wrote:

Spinner, 3/8" is a lot of cast. Let us know how it comes out.

Yep, 3/8" is a fair amount of cast but I had previously found on the pattern board that the gun was shooting well to the left (and high-ish). This was backed up by my inability to hit the broad side of a barn with the damn thing. I was scoring 18-21/25 on a trap field with my O/U and around 12-15 on the next round (same day) with this particular semi-auto ... the major difference was the O/U had noticeable cast off, the semi was cast neutral. Two layers of shotgun shell box top between the stock and receiver has resulted in 3/8" (around 9 mm) of cast off at the butt plate. Fit feels much better, but I suspect that I was "scrunching" around the stock previously so I don't entirely trust my feelings about fit .... the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If it doesn't pattern as I want it to, I'll remove one layer of cardboard and try it again. Finer adjustments can be made with layers of tinfoil, etc until I get it shooting where I'm looking.

I know sm is already anxious to hear how my experimentation is going .... its a pity I probably won't get a chance to pattern the gun for another 2 weeks. I was planning to report results as soon as I have them though.

BTW, as a newbie I know I'm possibly out of order but I think that reading your targets is a supplement to the results on the pattern board .... not a replacement for them.

Spinner

 

[sm]

I counted pellets at first - to learn and get the gist of it. I then got the feel to read the pattern w/o doing all that counting and dividing.

Been a long time since I counted pellets. I have grinned real big watching a fellow with a fancy diagramed pc of paper ( multi color with grids and such) using various colored markers and crunching numbers into a caculator.

" What do you think?" he asked.

I think if you keep lifting your head you're still gonna miss no matter how many pellets that load has...Stock is too long...and what in the hell are you using 1 1/4 oz loads on doves for anyway

Well...he asked.

Funny when you hand a fella a gun that fits better , with a Lite Skeet load, he can actually put the pellets better centered into that fancy , glossy , pattern paper.

Keeping head on stock is a good thing. When stock is too long , binding of swing happens and head comes off stock.

'purty paper tho'

 

[9mmMike]

Ah. Got it. Your eye is the rear sight. Move it in the direction that you want to move the shot (POI). No sweat.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[sm]

Hey Spinner!

OH smart thinking using me for a scape goat if the gun won' t shoot where pointed .

Yes...I'm waiting for results.

Did you ever check and see about your NZ regualtions in regard to someone sending you a skeet choke for a 12ga 1400 ?

Shameless plug for Spinner in NZ needing said choke. Trying to save him money and all if he has to order one from his end. IF...IF the reg's allow one to be sent to him...saves Spinner a LOT of headache, paperdrill , and postage. HINT HINT HINT.

 

[Spinner]

sm wrote:

OH smart thinking using me for a scape goat if the gun won' t shoot where pointed .

Hehehe, gotta blame somebody and I figure you've got broad shoulders .... you must be getting used to carrying the blame for all sorts of things by now No, I'm not blaming anyone, just following some sage advice from a "fuddy duddy" who loudly advocates gun fit as being an important first step toward hitting more targets more consistently.

sm also wrote:

Yes...I'm waiting for results.

Yeah, so am I mate. I'm planning on bunking off from work for a day to catch up on my huge list of chores at home so I can get out to the gun club on Saturday and pattern the gun and attempt to shoot some clays.

sm also wrote:

Did you ever check and see about your NZ regualtions in regard to someone sending you a skeet choke for a 12ga 1400 ?

I've asked the question of one person and got a reply but I'm not sure I trust the answer I got. I need to know FOR SURE that I can order a choke tube without filling out paperwork and requests to import firearms parts first. I figure I'll check twice and if'n I get the same answer then I'll start to believe it. The law that I read says I have to file (and receive approval from the Police) requests for importation of firearms and any parts for firearms. Ridiculous as it may be I read that to mean that a partially finished wooden gun stock is not just a lump of oddly shaped timber anymore, its something that needs to be wrapped in red tape and regulated for the safety of all ... but only if it crosses international borders. Similarly a 2 inch threaded steel tube sent from one country to another needs to be closely regulated to avert social catastrophe and rampant shooting sprees (Go figure!!).

As soon as I know for sure I can privately import a choke tube I'll be ordering one off the internet and having it shipped by air. It'll land on my doorstep for approximately 1/3 the price I can get one here thru a gun shop. :banghead:

Once again, you guys in the US need to appreciate how good you have it .... really!! Even with the gun grabbing greenies and AWBs and varying state laws and all that, you guys really have a whole heap of freedoms that very few other people in the world enjoy. You should see the hoops I'd have to jump thru just to own a handgun .... and don't even think about CCW in this country ... in fact our laws had to be re-written to allow US presidential security staff to carry concealed weapons when Bill Clinton visited a few years ago.

Spinner

 

[sm]

Once again, you guys in the US need to appreciate how good you have it .... really!!

Yes we are very fortunate indeed.

Sadly ,we allow complacency to enter our priorities at times.

Humm...nobody would check a fruit cake, everyone I know hates the darn things. I think the same fruit cakes get passed around year after year. I figure the custom folks would confiscate the fruit cake itself as being a "threat" - and then say " hey you want this threaded tube we found that holds it together?"

Okay...it worked in the B/W movies..."the hack-saw blade in the cake trick".

 

[Dave McCracken]

Spinner, alternative as much as supplement. I'm using both these days.
And, people do not need bureaucratic permission to possess arms. Any attempt by the govt to the contrary MUST be eyed askance and opposed vehemently.

You're welcome, Mike.

I've counted lots of holes. More than less these days I use the board to let me know where the pattern's center is. This method does the same thing, and under the same conditions as firing at targets.