An interesting read.

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jeep-2

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How Will They Confiscate Your Guns
By John A. Sutter

For decades I have heard gun owners claim that the government would never be able to confiscate our firearms because the government would lose too many men. The implication being, of course, that gun owners would actively resist confiscation, even to the point of shooting back.

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=10564
 
That was indeed an interesting read and provided much food for thought. The author makes some interesting points that are hard to find fault with.

It all makes one wonder what could we do?
 
A very interesting read, I am sure that being a member of this site and othere gun boards would provide lots of information that could be used against us, some members even list their guns, and we often ask questions about guns we own, I am sure that somewhere in cyberspace this information is waiting to be analyzed and put to use against us.
 
I always love looking at pro-gun pages, articles and websites that feature prominently placed swastikas. It always makes the author seem so credible, reasonable and sane. Don't you think?
 
:rolleyes:

There are literally MILLIONS or guns out there with absolutely NO trace available to the government.

The Government tactics he presents are certainly plausible and will net a lot of weapons. There will still be a huge number "on the streets", however. Far more than there ever were in Australia or UK.
 
I always love looking at pro-gun pages, articles and websites that feature prominently placed swastikas. It always makes the author seem so credible, reasonable and sane. Don't you think?

Yep. As soon as I see a swastika, I close the browser or hit the back button. I don't want to read it. I don't care what side of any argument they are on. If they are on my side, it's even worse, because they discredit me.

What is wrong with these people? Can't they understand that when you use images like that, you just come off looking like a crazy person? Oh, that's right. They are crazy... Sigh.
 
Yep. As soon as I see a swastika, I close the browser or hit the back button. I don't want to read it. I don't care what side of any argument they are on. If they are on my side, it's even worse, because they discredit me.
The only discrediting I see going on here is your knee-jerk reaction to the swastika. But to each their own I guess.

For those who are unmanned by a grouping of pixels, here is the article sans swastika from where the original site got it.

http://www.sksparts.com/howwilltheyconficateyourguns.html

Yes, an interesting read.
 
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I have always said if it is the goverment there is nothing we can do. If someone riots or some group attacks us we can fight back, but if the government comes after us it is all over. We have to keep fighting to keep that from happening.
 
For those who are unmanned by a grouping of pixels

And now I remember why I've chosen never to post in this community. Such a friendly bunch.


your knee-jerk reaction to the swastika

My reaction is not knee-jerk. Posting swastikas is a surefire way to discredit any argument. Who, in the gun-grabber community that we are trying to dissuade will pay any attention to you when they see that stuff? I'll tell you. None of them. It reaffirms to them that if you'r pro-gun, your just a nut.
 
My reaction is not knee-jerk. Posting swastikas is a surefire way to discredit any argument.

I see it as reminding us about our past, and how we defeated the Nazis... Or can't you get past the image on the poster, and consider the meaning of the poster itself? I'm guessing that this was produced prior to 7 Dec 1941, as part of an attempt to get the population to become aware of the developing situation in Europe. Remember that we had pilots volunteering both in Europe and in China prior to Pearl Harbor...

Or didn't they teach you that sorta thing in government school?

Another big swastika...

http://www.nancysteinbockposters.com/posters/buymorewarbondsandstamps.htm

And another... with an Iron Cross... Oh wait... Those must be okay, since they're on TV all the time with the motorcyle nuts...

http://www.nancysteinbockposters.com/posters/award.htm
 
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I see it as reminding us about our past,

OK. That's how you see it. But did you continue to read what I said beyond what you quoted?

Who, in the gun-grabber community that we are trying to dissuade will pay any attention to you when they see that stuff? I'll tell you. None of them. It reaffirms to them that if you'r pro-gun, your just a nut.

I got the impression from the creator of this sight that the point of it was to encourage civilized, reasonable discussion about firearms rights, so as not to scare off the other side. When I see a swastika, vintage poster or not, I see an extremist. I think a gun-grabber sees something even worse.

Or didn't they teach you that sorta thing in government school?

Was that really necessary? And where did it come from. Why do you feel the need to bully people? Do you do it in RL, or just online where you don't have to look me in the eye?
 
I call it like I see it - The point of the poster is that "America" needs to "Open Our Eyes." Because there is evil lurking.

In this case, the evil happens to be within - our own "Jack-booted Storm Troopers." And among their numbers they have accountants, and the resources to spend billions of our tax dollars, and kill or put thousands of people in jail, to "help" us.

IMHO, this is just as evil as the average Nazi bureaucrat. I wonder what happened to their tattoo people... Probably not enough.

Here's an interesting image with a Nazi submachine gun...

http://www.a-human-right.com/s_order.jpg

And another with a Nazi soldier.

http://www.a-human-right.com/s_what.JPG

Here's one with the letters "KKK" on it...

http://www.a-human-right.com/s_agreement.jpg
 
There are a lot of gun owners with a lot of guns for which there is absolutely no record as they were bought decades ago (before NCIC checks) from merchants who have long been out of business. For these guns the closest the BATF or anyone else could get is that the factory sold them to a distributor who sold them to a dealer in your/your dad's/your grandfather's/your great-grandfather's/etc home town. There is no way they could track them to you with any certianty. Granted there wouldn't be any EBR's, AK's, SKS's, etc. but there would still be a lot of firearms. Worse comes to worse, turn in the ones you know they can trace and be done with it.

Oh, and don't write about it on the gun forums.:eek:

Edited to add: Oh by the way, if you live in a state that requires a FOID to purchase ammunition you may have a hard time explaining why you bought all of that 12ga ammo when you didn't turn one in.
 
...that read was difficult & frightening for me. i'm going to have to think a bit on this one before i reply, guys.

bogie, i read unintended consequences, too...and met the author. that book was a major turning point in my life.

shades of 1984...
 
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Doubtlessly effective because it fits into your current world view... With someone my age, we see the swastika as an often-used symbol of creeping evil, not as the typical label of disaffected goth/skin culture. Big difference there...

For instance, and you don't know me, so learn, I do not condone modern Nazi or klucker memorabilia/trinkets at gun shows. I _will_ go bitch at the promoter. However, I _do_ draw the line between collectibles and crap - Joe with a genuine Hitler Youth dagger in a case of other high-dollar items is okay, but Bob, with a dozen Chinese reproductions and a buncha hate literature next to 'em is not.

If you'd go past your hatred of a PORTION (after all, that poster was to encourage people to _watch out_ for the Nazis, not to join them...) of the image at the beginning of that page, and read the article, you'll have to wonder what sort of parallels we are seeing here in the US compared to Germany in the early 1930s...
 
The following is personal commentary, and does not reflect any position of THR.

This article is conjecture along the lines of, "how could the government hem in a gunowner's plausible deniability to block off passive noncompliance?"

The thing is, from the very first premise,

Suppose, for the sake of argument, the government bans all civilian possession of firearms at the end of this month.

All bets would be off, and the time for passive noncompliance would be entirely past.

In that scenario, the .gov would be acting in defiance of the 2nd, which was part of the bill of rights, which was a condition of ratification of the constitution.

Blatantly taking down the 2nd in such a way would invalidate the whole constitution, and that would mark the official end of the Republic.

The .gov would have one, and precisely one chance to set it aright, and that would be a swift overturning of such legislation by the supreme court.

The NRA and other groups would immediately file for a writ of non enforcement while the thing was under judicial review, putting a pause on the whole thing, and gunowners would hold their breath while everything was in play, which would include a pretty vast PR campaign for for and against us.

At the end of the day, if SCOTUS either actively or passively refused to overturn, it would be, quite frankly and regretably, time for us to make an explicit, concious decision as to whether what Ben Franklin described as "a Republic, if you can keep it" is worth actively fighting to keep.

Randy Barnett asks and answers the question, "What criterion is needed such that a written Constitution forms a duty of conscience to obey it?"

He offers a books worth of answer, but the short form of it is that such a constitution must offer a fair, inclusive and participatory process for the creation of laws, that it must cleanly deliniate what powers government has and hasn't, and that it must protect certain minimum rights, even if they are of minorities, or if the right is unpopular.

History and the wisdom of the founders has shown us that the right of arms is far, far too dangerous to delegate exclusively unto ANY government of any form. Therefore, I hold that an American constitution that did not include protections for citizen's right of arms, (or even worse, specifically denied the citizens the right of arms) would fail that test.

Other nations are entirely on their own in this matter, I personally choose not to include their deficiencies into my scope of responsibility.
 
With someone my age, we see the swastika as an often-used symbol of creeping evil, not as the typical label of disaffected goth/skin culture.

bogie, who are you speaking to here? I am not aware of any "disaffected goth/skin culture" types viewing this thread. And someone your age? Well, you're 6 years older than me, but that hardly makes you my elder. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else, and that's where your initial hostility came from...

Doubtlessly effective because it fits into your current world view...

If you are speaking to me here, how can you possibly know what my world-view is?

If you'd go past your hatred of a PORTION (after all, that poster was to encourage people to _watch out_ for the Nazis, not to join them...) of the image at the beginning of that page, and read the article, you'll have to wonder what sort of parallels we are seeing here in the US compared to Germany in the early 1930s...

I understand, completely, you, and the author's point, and agree with them. But that was not my point. I was merely agreeing with Card's point, and believe it to be a more real, and serious problem. You see, there are other forces at work besides the gun-grabbers that will eventually erode our rights. It's pro-gunners so whacked out that they scare the grabbers into fighting even harder.
 
Having worked with/for several gov't agencies over the years there is at least one small flaw in this fear.

.Gov as a whole is awfully inconsistant about old records. Some stuff stays around forever, other stuff is lost or destroyed.

Can't get into much detail but in a recent situation it was discovered that a bunch of critical information was no longer accessable because it was stored in an outdated magnetic format. Okay so time and $$ spent to find some company who still had the type of tape readers for this info, only to find that it had degraded to such an extent that only about 20% of the information was recoverable in any form.

Not saying it's a failsafe but it does tend to make me worry less.
 
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