An overlooked survival tool

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I've got one of those daisy 1000x's. I use it for squirrels, rabbits, and the occaisional skunk or woodchuck that frolicks into the back yard. It hits about as hard as subsonic .22lr, maybe a little harder than some loads. In fact, it's a great survival tool even if everything in life is peachy. I can't shoot a rabbit in my yard with a firearm, that is illegal. But with the pellet rifle, it's free food. I don't want to try it unless i'm starving, but with a good solid pointed pellet, this thing could probably penetrate a deer's skull inside 40 feet. It will go through the walls in my house, as i've found out. It penetrates drywall, plywood, and another thing of drywall and burries itself in the next wall somewhere.


For big game however, you can rig up a common wrist rocket to fire arrows. Or just shoot it in the head with a .22.

The size and weight of the daisy 1000x allows it to be as powerfull as it is, but it is extreemly large and heavy as compared to a ruger 10/22.


A more practical air gun for survival use would be a browning 800 mag. It is a pistol that fires lead pellets at 700 +/- fps. it gives you the power of those pump up powerfull pellet guns, but it is a break barrel pistol. You can just slip it in a backpack. it works just fine on rabbits/squirrels/birds as far as power goes, but due to its oblong shape it can be difficult to hit small critters past 50 feet. This can be fixed with a simple Y stick to rest the barrel on. I think the break barrels are more reliable in the long run as compared to the pumps.

Another good one is the daisy 22x. They are .22 caliber pellet rifles that you pump up to 8 or 10 times. Plenty of power for small game. The cool thing about the 22x's, is they are very lightweight and easy to lug around.
 
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"It will go through the walls in my house, as i've found out. It penetrates drywall, plywood, and another thing of drywall and burries itself in the next wall somewhere."

We won't ask.;)
 
I shot my bathroom wall, it went through the first wall, out the second, and got burried in the bedroom wall and i didnt go digging around for it.
 
I can attest that an air rifle (not a bb gun) is an undervalued and overlooked tool.

I own a Beeman R1 and must say it is VERY accurate, very quite and very cheap to shoot. Does a number on small animals for sure.

Also helps keep up marksmanship with traditional rifles.
 
Many survival books and survival gurus tout the BB gun...I mean air rifle. I'm not really concerned enough about a possible survival situation to purchase one. My boys have a few they would possibly let me borrow.
 
***Raindodger do you feel thats ethical to shoot geese with a pellet rifle? I mean it lodges in their flesh no? will that cause slow lead poisoning?***

I think lead poisoning is intended generally lead ingestion causes bad egg shells.

***Not to take the thunder away from this, but even the stoutest of air rifles is well behind the lowly .22 Short in terms of power.***

Guess you have never heard of a SAM YANG pre charged.
Shoots a 45cal 180gr bullet a little over 700fps - the 6th shot still gets over 500fps on a single charge with a bicycle type pump. AKA 45acp:D

http://www.airgundepot.com/samyang-909-rifle.html
 
Moved

Moving this thread to Non-Firearm Weapons.


Good thread.

Air guns are certainly one of our important alternatives.

My first was a Sheridan 5mm Silver Streak. That was a serious piece of work. That was my introduction to the basics. My next rifle after that was an AR-15 (or maybe an M-16, I didn't read the fine print). Hundreds of hours with the Sheridan helped me qualify expert, almost like I knew what I was doing.

Fond memories.

Maybe I should pick up another air rifle . . .

 
With even fairly low-powered bb guns, you can kill birds. With birds, you have guts and meat. Guts and meat can bait traps and hooks.
 
Shoots a 45cal 180gr bullet a little over 700fps - the 6th shot still gets over 500fps on a single charge with a bicycle type pump. AKA 45acp
Click to expand...

I was unaware of those, and that's pretty impressive. But a .45 ACP it is not, my friend. .45 Auto energies are 370-600 ft/lbs.

Unfortunately, though, it totally defeats the idea behind lightweight and super-economical fodder. While .177 pellets can be had for ~$4/250, at $20 per 50, these .45 cal pellets are more expensive than 9mm luger and just as heavy. And the rifle ain't cheap, either.

Oh yeah, the reviews say these big bore air rifles are as loud as true firearms. So that advantage is gone, too.
 
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"Not to take the thunder away from this, but even the stoutest of air rifles is well behind the lowly .22 Short in terms of power."

Wrong. Do some research.

Modern air rifles come in all calibers and with PCP's, can be used to hunt even large game. I have seen it done. You can get air rifles up to 50 cal. They make a pretty big bang and are only good for a couple of shots before refilling. But . . .

A quality PCP rifle, for example, my AirArms S410 ERB .22 cal (30FPE at full power) will easily flip a squirrel or rabbit at 50 yards and give you about 30 shots per fill. It can be bought over the internet. It does not require firearm registration. It has an integrated barrel shroud (silencer) that reduces the report to "Pfffft!". In a pinch, I could feed myself and probably my family (if my hunting skills, not my weapon were better) with an air rifle. And I will wager that if I can get close enough (20 yards), I can do just about as well with a .22 PCP as with a rimfire.

Better yet, if the SHTF, i can do it in a suburban back yard or in your back yard and you will probably never know I was there. I can poach year-round and not attract any attention. The propellent is air. Scuba tanks are convenient, yes, but a hand pump works if need be. 500 rounds of ammo is about $10 bucks and can be carried in your pocket. A decent springer doesn't even require the pump, but is, practically speaking, 12-15 FPE -- still plenty enough for small game and still quiet.

In solo or small group (family) survival scenarios, I don't care who you are or what weapon(s) you have -- attract enough attention and someone will come after you. I don't think I want to test the hypothesis that I can win a major shoot out. If it comes to that, I have firearms, but I don't want to go there.

For me, I know I will do better hunkering down some place quiet and out of the way and attracting no attention than playing Rambo with a semi-auto 223 CAR. Give me a decent air rifle with 500 pellets, a knife, a cable saw, and the gear I can pack in a day-pack -- fire, a water filter, some fishing line and hooks, a small alcohol stove and a pint of ethanol, paracord, small tarp, hammock, some dried foodstuffs, first aid kit etc -- and I think I could mange nicely for a week or so in the woodlands of NC in most situations.

Here is the gear I keep packed, just in case . . . the seat cushion is probably the most important piece of gear in my advancing age, when I plan to spend the day in the woods (lol)
 

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I've seen claims in advertising for these modern air rifles that you can take deer and wild boar with them. I'd be interested to know if anybody here has any experience hunting medium sized game with any kind of air rifle.

Wouldn't a suppressed .22 rifle achieve the same goal?
 
I have shot a friend's big bore air rifle and pistol. But generally, I feel no need to have an air rifle that loud and with that much recoil.

Yes, a suppressed or silenced rim fire would achieve the same goal - stealth, but, both the firearm and silencer would need to be legally registered, 500 rounds of even cheap 22LR are more expensive, and 500 rounds won't easily fit in a pocket.

Another advantage of air rifles - you can make yourself a back yard or indoor range with a silent pellet trap and shoot at home, year round. If serious about becoming a very proficient off-hand shooter, there is no substitute for regular practice.

One disadvantage -- the air rifles don't have that satisfying smell of a powder burner and the happiness of a warm gun.
 
Modern air rifles come in all calibers and with PCP's, can be used to hunt even large game. I have seen it done. You can get air rifles up to 50 cal. They make a pretty big bang and are only good for a couple of shots before refilling.
Click to expand...

I just outlined (as in the post right above yours) how the 9mm, .45 and .50 caliber PCP air guns completely defeat the purpose of the air rifle as the lightweight, economical and quiet survival tool. The only advantage these have is a legal one, in that they aren't a firearm, which would make them appealing to people who living in places where gun ownership is highly restricted or impossible. But as compared to a firearm, they make as much power as a hyper velocity .22.......on the first shot. Then they rapidly decrease to the level of .22 Short by the 5th or 6th.

A quality PCP rifle, for example, my AirArms S410 ERB .22 cal (30FPE at full power) will easily flip a squirrel or rabbit at 50 yards and give you about 30 shots per fill.
Click to expand...

Which is a pretty poweful pellet rifle, but, as I said before, is less than half the power of a .22 short. It is about on par with a BB cap, which are very quiet. We used to use them for popping squirrels and rabbits in my friends suburban neighborhoods.

I said before that I do see the value in air rifles for this purpose, just had to say something when I kept seeing airguns being compared to real guns. I have several, including a Sheridan .20 cal and an RWS M34, and still use them for pest control. But I would not even think about trying to take medium game with them, as some people seem to think the higher performance air rifles are up to the task. The only ones that are would be the big bores that behave like firearms.

I feel like the antogonist here, but it seems that some are trying to make the air rifle something it's not. And a point on the noise issue; If I'm concerned about attracting unwanted attention while surviving in a post-apocalyptic world, I'm not gonna give two hoots about rules against supressors enforced by an agency that no longer exists due to total societal collapse.

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As well, I was thinking more and more about the weight issue. Here's the thing. Pellets have a pretty crappy BC, so the max effective range for these air rifles on small game is, what, maybe 50 or 60 yards? That's basically pistol range. So, to use this thing on the move, lets take the AirArms S410 ERB mentioned. This is a nearly 7 pound rifle, add a 2 pound hand pump (unless you're only gonna use 20 or 30 shots provided by the tank) and then 500 .22 cal pellets, (assuming ~15 grains for most .22 pellets, that's just a shade over 1 pound). So, with 500 rounds, you have a somewhat clumsy 10 pound package for 30 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.

Now let's look at the alternative, say, a rifle like my Remington model 24 .22 short.
Remingtonmodel24.jpg
This is a 15-shot semi-automatic rifle that is 37" long and weighs in at a scant 4-3/4 pounds. Very handy. That leaves us 5 pounds worth of .22 short ammo to make up the weight difference between it and the air gun. 5 pounds of .22 short is 850-900 rounds, depending on bullet.

So, for the same weight, this .22 short gives us a more compact package and an extra 350 rounds that make 2.5 times as much power and much greater range.

Take it a step further and use a pistol like the 8-shot S&W 317, which is plenty accurate within the effective range of the pellet gun, and you can now carry 9 pounds of .22 short for the same weight. That's over 1,500 rounds. And the little short still makes over 50 ft/lbs of energy from a 3" pistol barrel.
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Now, the survival kit equation. This is where the rimfire really shines. For 10 ounces, I have a 5-shot repeater and 55 rounds of ammunition, stored with a host of other survival items in a pocket watch tin that very easily fits into a daypack. That's efficiency defined :)

100_0936.jpg

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If I were stranded in the wilderness, I'd whittle a shoulder stock for the little revolver so I could make the most of those 55 rounds (The NAA mini's are rather difficult to shoot accurately due to the tiny dimensions and very rudimentary sights). I carry this kit while hunting or hiking in the event that I'm out there pretty far and become injured. Of course, I carry a full size handgun as well (rifle when hunting), but one cannot be too prepared in a worst case scenario.

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So I say again, let's appreciate the merits of the air gun without trying to convince people it's something that it simply isn't. As far as ultimate survival weapon, the bow is far superior to the air rifle. Much more power, almost zero noise, and reusable ammo.
 
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"it seems that some are trying to make the air rifle something it's not"

MachIV

Don't misunderstand and please don't take any offense from my comments. I suppose my response wasn't very well crafted. I love firearms and possess many. Every law-abiding citizen should have a few. And I have no real intention of ever using an air rifle to hunt anything larger than it was designed for -- maybe a raccoon but practically, squirrels, rabbits and birds.

And I make no claim that the killing power of an air rifle is superior to even a 22 short, or for that matter, even the FPE of a good sling shot. But make no mistake -- a quality air rifle can be deadly, even to humans, in the right circumstances.

Just commenting on a skill set and piece of equipment that the original poster referred to -- air rifles and air gunning, and opining that the reality is most of us don't own silenced weapons and aren't by the term "survival" actively preparing for an armed fire-fight with the "bad guys".

If "survival" means evading confrontations (with an irate neighbor or some other hungry guy in the woods with his own rifle, for example), feeding myself, and not having to rely solely on my gardening, fishing and trapping skills, then I think the option of a good air rifle in the mix of survival equipment accumulated those of us in the "gun and knife club" makes pretty good sense. But if "survival" means strictly the ability to kill or be killed in an armed conflict, then I think we all understand that we are talking something entirely different.

PS: I have a hunting bow, but while I might feed myself with an air rifle, I am sure I would starve putting meat on the table with my bow and arrow. Maybe I should consider a cross bow . . . hmmm . . . .

PPS: I really like your little survival kit.

My plans are more urban. My daily survival kit is mainly what I carry in my pocket -- a good pocket knife (C Reeves Sebenza or Ken Onion Leek), a Fenix LOD AAA flashlight, a Ruger LCP .380, and car keys to a Honda Accord. I always try to keep at least half a tankful of gas in the Accord, enough to make the trip home and then to my place in the mountains without stopping if needed. I keep the "extras" I might need to get there in the car.

You are certainly right about the weight issue, especially if you need to cover a lot of ground on foot. I plan more around day trips or overnight trips into the surrounding woods to hunt and gather once I get there, moreso than a deep wilderness solo survival, though.

I should spend some more time on my trapping skills - snares, etc. A mousetrap, coil of wire, a few nails/screws and extra paracord are in the pack -- not to catch mice, but with the intention that I could much more easily fashion a trigger for a larger snare, trap or deadfall starting with a mouse trap than by carving my own trigger.

Added a short roll of TP and a couple of tea candles to the pack, having failed miserably in my efforts to make an adequate fire in wet conditions without these, and considering TP an essential survival supply in any case. The ethanol and small mess kit are essential for hot coffee, and in case I need a snort to ward off snakebites (LOL). Two other essentials in the mountain woods: Danner boots and an oversized Hennessy hammock.

Mainly I like to play at sneaking around in the woods as quietly as possible and watching, instead of being watched. All I usually kill is time, and my air rifles are fun to carry and plink with, especially if it isn't really hunting season. At my age, "survival" requires a few creature comforts. LOL

I think it wold be fun sometime to challenge a couple of my friends to a 3-5 day "vision quest" in the woods with only a daypack and and air rifle.
 
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Why I don't rush out and buy an airgun.
I already have 10k+ rounds of 22, 2 pistols. 4 rifles. And most of them are pretty much tack drivers.
Air guns are good. But I know I could kill a deer with a 22lr.

And really good reliable airguns are as much as a 22. I bought a marlin semi auto, for $100 brand new at cabelas. Already put a few hundred rounds through it.
I am biased for a reason towards 22 though, for "survival" I used to buy all kinds of pellet/ bb guns when I was younger. single pumps, multi pumps. Even cheap spring pistols (like airsoft, that shot bb's) and over time, the seals would always break, and the gun would lose power over time.
What I don't want when I am hunting is power loss, and no backup.

But the counter point is.... A pellet gun ina car trunk is not a "real gun" lot less strict on the laws for them. So it might be a good idea for a trunk gun. Just in case one got lost long enough to need a tasty squirrel.
 
"Really good" air rifles are some of the most expensive long guns I own (and the most accurate). And just for the Record, there are no Gamo air rifles that fall into that category (really good), although with a bit of work, they are certainly serviceable. For anyone who, like me I guess, has more money than sense, check out my favorites:

AirArms S410 ERB .22 cal, pre-charged pneumatic (an absolute squirrel slayer)
AirArms ProSport .22 cal, top end under-lever springer, made in England
Theoben Crusader .20 cal, gas ram gun (short lock time, much easier to shoot accurately than conventional springers), and another English-made air rifle
Beeman R9 Goldfinger .20 cal, classic German break-barrel springer
BSA Scorpion Carbine .177, another PCP -- mine is off having a custom stock made
Diana 34 Panther, .22, another classic German springer
CZ 631 and CZ 634 - both lower power springers in .177, but like all weapons "CZ", very accurate. CZ is one of (if not the only company) that puts hammer forged barrels on an air rifle -- very sweet shooters.

Check out Straightshooters.com and airgunsofarizona.com, and of course pyramidair.com
 
Mine is a Diana Model 48 in .177, that I've had for at least twenty years.

It's a good rifle.

Les
 
Just be careful out there. When firearm owners start looking for that one good air rifle, it can be like drinking the Cool Aid, eating Lays potato chips, or smoking cigarettes. Pretty soon, as with any other addiction, you won't be able to stop. And as someone correctly pointed out -- air rifles are definitely not a cheap substitute for a firearm. You have been warned! :D
 
...

actually a very good idea for those endless TEOTWAWKI threads.

An Airrifle, replacement springs and stuff, and 2 Pounds of pellets
will keep you hunting smallgame for food for years ....

While you can save the SKS ( add endless debated SHTF-gun here)
ammo for keeping the zombies at bay ... or the deer that you stumble upon.

everyone who had to buy a tactical-wheelbarrow after
the TEOTWAWKI Threadwars should consider this option.

ZOMG.jpg
 
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