An unsettling experience my friend had recently

[cmdc]

Said friend was at a restaurant lounge with his wife, visiting with some friends. The conversation got around to politics, and of course everyone has an opinion. During this discussion, two strangers sitting nearby apparently disagreed with the general tone of the discussion and proceeded to chime in but my friend and his friends ignored them, and the two strangers left.

When my friend and his wife left the restaurant, the two strangers were hanging around in the parking lot and when my friend left in his car, the two strangers got in their respective cars and proceeded to follow them. My friend noticed, and made several arbitrary, abrupt turns with the two cars still following. At this point he told his wife to call 911, and he proceeded to return to the restaurant parking lot, where he was met by three sheriff's cars. The two cars following him, seeing him returning to the restaurant, left the area.

The point of this long-winded narrative is this: My friend carries a Kimber Solo with seven rounds, and a spare six round magazine, but he realized that if he had gotten cornered by these two strangers and had to defend himself, he would have been seriously outgunned if the other guys were each armed. He has decided to upgrade his firepower henceforth by carrying a Xdm 3.8 9mm with extra 19 round magazine in his vehicle.

This incident occurred in a good neighborhood with a low crime rate.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

Glad everything turned out ok. He practiced good situational awareness and that is what kept him safe.


Edit: erased some conjecture on my part

 

[M-Cameron]

this is the reason i traded my SP101 for a Glock 17 with +2 mag extensions.....

same weight....but 4x the capacity.....

under stress, with multiple attackers, i dont feel comfortable with only 5 rounds.....i want as many rounds as i can reasonably carry

i figure if im going to have to fight with my gun....i may as well have a gun worth fighting with.....if you knew you were going into a gun fight, no one in their right mind would choose a 5 shot snubnose.....you are going to choose a full size duty weapon, so thats what i chose.



also, this is why my car has nitrous........kind of hard to follow a car that can go 0-60 in <4 second

 

[X-Rap]

And good reason for the Mrs. or the car gun to share the same ammo and magazines.

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[danez71]

Just an assumption, I apologize for generalizing. I assume that the party that your friend supports also supports the right to carry and bear arms (because he carries). If the other 2 gentleman were getting upset by his point of view, I would assume they don't support the right to bear arms. They probably weren't armed. I'm not saying that makes them any less dangerous, just pointing out that they probably weren't armed.

Depending on the conversation, that could be valid but he didn't say it was a 2A discussion; he just mentioned 'political' in nature.


If it was a Cruz vs Trump conversation, they may have been 2A supporters and just didn't like how their favorite was being portrayed.

 

[Hairy Clipper]

Being in my middle sixties I have observed many things and as a good little boy I always took my mother's advice seriously. As a result I have come to some conclusions about life and more importantly society and human nature.

My mother absolutely refused to talk openly about politics with anyone outside the immediate family or outside the house. She understood very well the reasoning behind the secret ballot.

Additionally, my observation of today's society leaves me with the opinion that those that oppose freedom, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights are more willing to use any method they can to get their way. Be it intimidation, name calling, or whatever the tactic of the day will be, when the shouting is over their end game is more important than how they get there.

As for your friend: It has never been very smart to talk about controversial topics in places where alcohol is served, be it a public place or the comfort of your own home. However, the 911 call was a smart move.

 

[cmdc]

The conversation wasn't about the 2nd Amendment, it was just the typical political discussion regarding the candidates and politics in general. My friend is rather conservative as well as were the people he was talking with. The two strangers apparently not so much. You never know what will set someone off, and for that reason it's very important to always maintain a situational awareness, as my buddy did in this instance.

M-Cameron, good point about having a gun worth fighting with. I have re-thunk things as a result of his experience as well. Ya just never know. Much better to have it and not need it than the other way around.

 

[cslinger]

Brains beat bullets. Your friend handled it well. Brains, calm and retreat beat the hell out of ANY fight in my opinion even if you are the victorious party.

Also as for being outgunned so to speak. Let's assume everybody more or less throws down at the same time. Even if your friend is fast enough to get rounds on target 1 and transition and get rounds on target 2, chances are rounds are already on the way from target 2.

Sure there is moving and misses due to that whole pesky not wanting to get shot thing we are all cursed with but I would imagine a prolonged gunfight is not all that likely.

That being said I would never begrudge folks more ammo as I totally agree with the concept of "nobody ever ended a gunfight thinking they had brought too much ammo"

 

[cmdc]

Well said, gentlemen. I wholeheartedly agree with the comments about controversial subjects where alcohol is served.

And the comments regarding shootout scenarios are true as well.

I would add however that polarizing discussions and alcohol aside, we can't be too careful nowadays, as I know all of us realize.

This incident occurred in FL, where my friend and I have second homes. We drive expensive cars and live in expensive homes. On the night in question, he was driving a $200,000 Porsche. He is thinking that they were going to follow him home and rob him or come back later and burglarize him. The Sheriff's officers thought so too, and they escorted him home.

Even though I am more aware of my surroundings than most people probably are, I get complacent because we live in a very nice area where crime is almost unheard of. This reinforced my vigilance, and I am going to make sure I have a firearm in my vehicle with more ammunition on tap, and that I use ammunition that has good barrier penetration. Just in case.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I carry a Kimber Custom Classic (the basic M1911 at the time of purchase in '95 or '96) with 2 spare 8-round mags, and a couple more mags in the console of my truck.

 

[X-Rap]

You are probably right in your suspicions about being targeted but bad things can follow you home from many places. Sad to say but one must be vigilant at all times anymore. Technology is allowing people to be found or followed so much easier now and any of us can become a target by what we say or do in public or on line.

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[MedWheeler]

I'd be inclined to think the wealth your friends were seen as flashing was more the interest of the other guys than was the political discussion. Perhaps some content of the discussion provided the initial clues.

I'd be wrong, though, if their pursuers were driving similar cars or otherwise appeared to be as well off.

At any rate, I highly doubt either of them were being targeted specifically for assassination, and would agree with the deputies that they were more likely being analyzed for possible burglary or robbery later.

In the event they had been cornered and had been able to get some shots off, the whole thing probably would have ended right there and then.

What he did was indeed the best strategic action to take at that particular time and under those particular circumstances.

I'd neither disparage them, or you, for retaining your current carry setup, nor for piling on more ammo and a bigger gun (or more guns.)

I, too, have considered upgrading from my eight rounds of 9mm to something with at least a few more, but not for the same reasons (I drive a Jeep worth maybe two grand, and a Ford truck that might also be worth that.) I'm not sure there are ten cars in my county worth over $100,000 each.

 

[cmdc]

To clarify, I wasn't there.

As to flashing wealth, I get what you're saying, but neither of us do that except to say that, yes, driving an expensive car I suppose could be construed to be 'flashing wealth.' The thing is that in the area where we are, there are LOTS of those types of cars, so we don't really stand out per se. At the restaurant where he was, most of the cars in the parking lot will be high-end luxury brands of various makes.

I will also add that I asked him what kind of cars those two were driving and he said one was a older Honda and one was an older Chevy he thinks.

 

[GBExpat]

An unsettling experience my friend had recently

Unsettling, indeed!

It is a good thing that your friend kept his wits about him and did not obliviously drive home.

 

[stonecutter2]

In your friend's situation, even if he had 4 30 round mags on him, his odds of successfully defending himself against 2 cars' worth of aggressors might be slim. I think his awareness of the situation and decision to get law enforcement engaged on his side was the absolutely smartest thing to do.

So long as he keeps himself aware of his surroundings like that, I think he should focus on carrying what he's best with, and comfortable with carrying.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - I hope he's not changing from a known, reliable firearm to a more unknown less familiar one, just to have enough ammo to fight off 2 cars worth of people...because that's a tall order for pretty much anyone.

Just a bad situation that I'm glad turned out okay for them!

 

[TimSr]

"nobody ever ended a gunfight thinking they had brought too much ammo"

I truly wonder how many actually end with somebody thinking they hadn't brought enough ammo.

 

[SSN Vet]

Next time it might be a van full of (insert favorite stereotype here) and he'll still be outgunned with his hi cap pistol.

This was essentially terrorizing...

Awareness and cool headed thinking went farther to bring about a safe outcome than anything else.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

In a situation like this, I am reminded of the old Infantry saying, "A company commander's basic weapon is his radio." Your cell phone is as important as your gun.

 

[Black Knight]

Your friend did exactly the right thing. He was aware of everything going on, kept his head, made the right tactical decisions, then did a final analysis. He knows where his security came up short and decided to make a change. The only thing I might have changed and it all depends on the local laws was to keep a weapon concealed in the restaurant. Unfortunately when someone is discussing politics there is always some outsider who wants to butt in and show everyone else how little they really know. I applaud your friend for keeping his cool and doing what was right at the time. He may also want to consider a rifle or carbine in the trunk should there come a problem that a handgun may not be optimal.

 

[GRIZ22]

Your friend exercised good judgement and tactics.

 

[Speedo66]

If I was your friend, and he was concerned about being followed home because of driving a conspicuous car, keep in mind it's not that hard to get an address from a license plate.

He should stay sharp for a while.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Your friend did everything right.

 

[Panzerschwein]

In this day and age, I would carry nothing less than 15+1.

I carry my G19 in the car w 19+1 rounds and six 33 round "happy sticks" in a surplus Uzi ammo carrier, all loaded with Underwood 124 grain +P+. 218 rounds to provide superior firepower as needed.

 

[herrwalther]

Good tactics to avoid bad situations will beat having a belt fed weapon in a vehicle any day. When crap is about to hit the fan, step out if the way of the fan. Sound judgement on your friends part.

On the tool set side of the house I never leave my house with less than 10 rounds. Sometimes that is what is in the firearm, for other stuff that is a spare magazine.

 

[Plan2Live]

My take;

1) Guns and alcohol don't mix well.

2) If the average citizen ever gets in a situation where they need more than 6 or 7 rounds they probably don't have the skills to survive the encounter. Former door kickers are obviously not the average citizen.

3) Situational awareness beats round count every time.