Anal about Reliability(Long)

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1911Tuner

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Since I decided to rest a bit today before gettin' started with the dogs...I
thought I might do a little write-up on reliability, since that area is my basic stock-in-trade.

Reliability is more than feeding, firing, extracting, and ejecting. While this is the basis for reliability...the pistol MUST go bang when the trigger is pulled...there's more to it than that. Reliability isn't determined in absolutes, and it can't be guaranteed. No machine can be guaranteed to operate without failure. It's a mechanical and mathematical impossibility. If we keep it and use it long enough, it's inevitible that something is gonna fail at some point. If reliability could be guaranteed, there would be no reason to practice "Malfunction Drills."

Oh! You say you DON'T practice malfunction drills? :eek:

On the mechanical end, we can take steps to insure functional reliability.
We make certain adjustments, and check dimensions. We use the best
critical parts and tune the guns and see to minor details. We make sure that everything is in-spec and made of correct materials. We search tirelessly for good magazines, and are willing to pay riduculous prices for the latese and best. We clean and lubricate and fuss over major points. but there are certain habits that we can adopt that will increase the odds against weapon failure at a critical moment. Simple things that take little time...and while many of these things don't add or subtract very much from the odds...every percentage point in favor of reliability increases our chances of having a functional pistol if you should find yourself UTYAIA when you least expect it.

The most likely place to experience a failure to feed/go to battery is on the
top round in a magazine that is loaded to capacity, and on the last round in the magazine. That's a flat statement that is backed up by physics, and it applies to any magazine-fed weapon. This is one more reason that carrying a pistol in Condition Two is a little risky. The time to have a
"Lock'n'Load stoppage is at home while the coffee is brewing...NOT
when an attack starts over a stoplight fender-bender while you furiously
back-pedal and rack the slide to keep 300-pound Bubba from caving your head in with a tire iron.

The top round because the spring imposes its maximum tension and drag on the slide. That works to bleed momentum from the slide as it goes to battery, and increases the chance of a fialure to go to battery. Divide the
number of rounds into 100 and convert to percentage. Reducing the capacity by one round in a 7-round magazine reduces the drag on the slide by roughly 13% coming AND going. That's a signifigant amount,
but there's another point that few consider. It also reduces the load pushing on the magazine floorplate by the same amount. For those of us
who use flush-fit magazines with welded bases, it decreases the chance that the constant tension will cause the welds to fail. Many people will
carry the gun loaded to magazine capacity +one...but doing so increases the chance of breaking the welds through that constant load by 13%.
How many of us check the baseplate welds daily? Weekly? Ever?

Those of us who are lucky enough to have a supply of magazines with
pinned bases may skip this part of the examination.

A clean and oiled gun is a happy gun. How many of us field-strip the gun
that we bet our life on weekly, blow the lint out of it, and put a drop of oil in each frame rail?

How many of us...after storing the pistol in a nightstand drawer overnight in Condition Two...lock the slide and peek into the barrel to check for an obstruction before we load it and head out for adventure?

How many of us perform function and safety checks on our carry pistols
on a routine basis? Daily? Weekly? Ever? Reliability is as much about NOT having the gun go bang when it shouldn't as it is having it go bang when it must.

How many...during a routine field-strip and cleaning...examine the parts for signs of iminent failure? How about the ammunition?

How many of us...when racking the slide to chamber the top round before
strapping the pistol on...give the slide a little bump to insure full battery and disconnect reset? The 1911 was designed to operate at full speed.
Chambering the top round by hand-cycling the slide isn't full speed, and neither is loading the gun by tripping the slidestop. The dynamics aren't the same. Remember the addition of the Forward Bolt Assist on the
M16-A1 modification? There was a very good reason for that appendage...and the troops were directed to use it whenever the rifles were loaded, regardless of the conditions. The op-rod handles on the M-1 and M-14 were whacked for the same reasons. Why should the 1911
pistol be any different? The dynamics are much the same. Easy to do.
Simply pull the hammer past full-cock...bump the slide... lower the hammer onto the sear, and engage the safety. This also insures full sear reset. Safety engagement may be performed before or after the bump...
at your discretion.

Habits. Habits. How many of us test our brakes before backing out of
the driveway in a mad rush to get to work on time?

Food for thought.
 
1911Tuner said:
Reliability is more than feeding, firing, extracting, and ejecting. While this is the basis for reliability...the pistol MUST go bang when the trigger is pulled...there's more to it than that. Reliability isn't determined in absolutes, and it can't be guaranteed. No machine can be guaranteed to operate without failure. It's a mechanical and mathematical impossibility. If we keep it and use it long enough, it's inevitible that something is gonna fail at some point. If reliability could be guaranteed, there would be no reason to practice "Malfunction Drills."

Oh! You say you DON'T practice malfunction drills? :eek:

That's why everone should own at least one Jennings/Bryco pistol :)

--wally.
 
Tuner - Great Post!

How many folks actually run 200 rds of a given carry load in THEIR gun to KNOW that load is reliable in THAT gun?

Not what runs in someone's else's gun like theirs. Not a gun or loading similar. How many have more than one selection tested in THEIR gun , enabling them to have a load that is reliable if out of town and need to re-supply?
 
I guarantee mine to run, except for people who don't know how to feed them or shoot them or care for them. If they are built right, they have no choice but to run 100%.
 
Don't take this the wrong way cause I love the 1911 pistol, but I,ve just had too many small issues with mine to ever think of them as being absolutely reliable. I'm not a gunsmith and I don't want to be one,wish I could but just no time. If I want 100% reliable I'll trust my Sig, CZ's, or Rugers that Ive never had any problems with. Not trying to flame anyones pistol, just my opinion.
 
On Topic

Now...Where were we before the Sneak Hijack Attack :scrutiny: ...Oh yeah!

How many of us do a Field Extractor Tension Check once a week? Once a Month?
Never?

How about checking the firing pin for full travel? Gonna bet your life that a little piece of grit didn't work its way in and tie things up? It's the little things that getcha, baby...Ever' dang time. You can dodge a Rhino...but the Tse Tse fly will find a way to ruin your day.

1911 Terry...No harm, no foul. Welcome aboard. Good reliability with a 1911 Colt-Browning pistol is pretty simple if ya just stick to the basics. Hang around and learn how. Some of us will help ya for the fun of it...and some will wanna pry ya loose from your hard-earned green. It won't take ya long to figger out which is which. ;)

bbrown! I LOVE revolvers...but they malfunction too. Bring your best one to me.
Pick one of my 1911s at random...and we can have a 2500-round no-cleaning, no oiling, dunk'em into a bucket of water to cool'em off torture test to see which one stops first. I got the ammo if you've got the time. Bring speed loaders. :cool:
 
1911Tuner said:
bbrown! I LOVE revolvers...but they malfunction too. Bring your best one to me.
Pick one of my 1911s at random...and we can have a 2500-round no-cleaning, no oiling, dunk'em into a bucket of water to cool'em off torture test to see which one stops first. I got the ammo if you've got the time. Bring speed loaders. :cool:

The point of revolver reliability is not a 2500 round torture test. It is which has a higher chance of failure in the first cylinder/magazine full of rounds? Picking up and firing 500 each loaded pistols and revolvers at random, my money is on the revolvers to not choke, or if so, at a far lower rate.

The first rounds are going to be the ones needed the most, not rounds 2494-2500.
:evil:
 
2494 Rounds

Boats said:
The point of revolver reliability is not a 2500 round torture test. It is which has a higher chance of failure in the first cylinder/magazine full of rounds? Picking up and firing 500 each loaded pistols and revolvers at random, my money is on the revolvers to not choke, or if so, at a far lower rate.

The first rounds are going to be the ones needed the most, not rounds 2494-2500.
:evil:


Exactly so...and I've seen revolvers carried for months without attention get so tied up with lint and rust from body sweat that they wouldn't fire the first round...
and they wouldn't let the cylinder swing out to try to get'em clear. The point is that the autopistol will tolerate it. A revolver, with its tightly fitted lockwork
and close tolerances between the forcing cone and cylinder may not. Ever wonder why the Army didn't choose a revolver for its new issue sidearm?

Now then...back to the topic! Let us discuss what we can do to insure reliability
in our sidearms without further side-trackin'.

Anybody else got any tid-bits? (Besides the usual..."Get a Glock" or "Carry a Revolver" stuff. ) Some of us choose not to carry those guns...but even so, it's the little things that getcha. :uhoh:
 
Here something I wrote awhile back about reliability and the 1911. It may work here.

Reliability and the 1911

There is a common misconception among the gun buying public that the 1911 platform is unreliable. If there were any truth to this rumor one would wonder why it was the dedicated military sidearm for so many decades. Its popularity continues to grow among shooters and manufacturers with each passing year. While no design is without its own failings, the 1911 has forever left an indelible mark on the world and the firearms industry

First we will take a brief look at how the 1911 works to better understand what is going on inside. The 1911 is a single action, magazine fed, recoil operated system. Sounds simple right? I’ll not get into the operation of the trigger and safety systems that will be saved for another time. We will concentrate on the feeding and ejection portion of the cycle. So what happens after the hammer drops and the firing pin makes contact with the primer?
Energy in the form of recoil pushes the slide and barrel rearward which are locked together by the upper barrel lugs and the matching lug recesses in the slide. At which time the bullet exits the muzzle and chamber pressure drops. The barrel link pivots on the slide stop ending the rearward movement of the barrel. The barrel begins to link down unlocking it from the slide and the slide is allowed to continue rearward extracting the fired casing from the chamber until it makes contact with the ejector which causes the case to be thrown from the ejection port. The slide continues rearward compressing the recoil spring and cocking the hammer. The slide then begins forward powered by the energy that was stored in the compressed recoil spring. A new round is then stripped from the magazine pushing it up the feed ramp, seating the round under the extractor and into the chamber. With the slide returned fully forward the barrel is once again locked in to the slide with the bottom barrel lugs resting on the slide stop pin, hammer cocked and the pistol ready to fire once again. So what are some causes that can affect reliability?


Defects in manufacturing

Manufacturing defects are flaws that were introduced into the product at the time of manufacture. The majority of these defects are found at the time of manufacture and corrected. There are also design defects which are not referring to the 1911 design itself. This could be a material issue, heat treating processes etc. Design defects are the hardest to catch at the time of manufacturing and normally only become apparent after the products are in the consumers hands and begin to fail. This is not exclusive to just firearms manufacturing it can be found in any manufacturing process. And inevitably some will make there way to the consumer regardless of the quality system they have in place. With that being said when you do go to purchase a firearm stay with a company who has a reputation of quality and that is willing to correct there mistakes. The internet has proven to be an invaluable tool for research of this nature. Where else could you hear both sides of the story on a global scale? But ultimately the decision will be yours so choose wisely young grasshopper for all 1911’s were not created equal.



Ammunition

The 1911 was originally designed to be used with round nose bullets and unless modifications have been made it will usually not reliably feed other types of ammunition. Even after a smith performs a basic reliability package bullets that keep to a rounded shape will feed better than those with an aggressive profile. The farther you get away from the original design of ammunition your reliability percentage will suffer. Not to say that it cant and hasn’t been done. But when your firearm is for defense this is no time to take chances I for one go for maximum reliability. I like it to go bang and keep going bang until the magazine runs dry. It comes down to a numbers game playing the percentages I have carry guns that have went through thousands of rounds of JHP without failing. Even knowing this I still prefer to use hardball ammo for carry. The only way to find out what your gun will or will not feed reliably is testing. You must find a round that will reliably feed all the time. You can carry the best penetrating, expanding new super bullet in the world but if it is only reliable 95 percent of the time are you willing to stake your life on it? For those of you who like to load your own do not exceed the designed specifications of your round. Consult your reloading manual and double check your work. If you begin having feeding or ejection problems don’t assume the problem is gun related without first rechecking your work and trying it with factory ammo. You can then move on through the troubleshooting process if the solution was not found and the problem persists.


Magazines

Magazines are directly responsible for more failures to feed than any other part of an auto loading handgun. This is common knowledge and despite this fact it is still one of the most over looked components when it comes to firearm maintenance. First off start by buying quality magazines and stay away from the bargain or no name brand, gun shows are famous for selling cheap worthless magazines. Good magazines are worth their weight in gold and now more than ever there is an abundance of quality magazines manufactured. Buying cheap will cost you more in the long run and you will eventually end up buying the good ones if you ever hope to have a reliable weapon. Even the best magazines will require periodic maintenance. They need to be cleaned and inspected for damage do not wait until you start to experience malfunctions before you pay them the attention they deserve. You will be amazed at the lint and dirt they can collect. Magazines with a stainless body are not maintenance free either. Most will still contain carbon steel springs, followers or base plates that need to be cleaned and oiled to prevent rust.







Improper Gunsmithing

Improper fitting and tuning of parts can lead you to having the fanciest paper weight on the block. While the 1911 was designed with simplicity in mind that does not mean anyone with a Dremel and a Kuhnhausen manual is a qualified pistolsmith.There is a certain Zen to properly doing this work. This is not to say I am against gun owners who want to learn more and work on there own firearms. At one time every great pistolsmith had the same desire. But you must be aware of your limitations and if you get in over your head don’t be afraid to ask for help. Most pistolsmiths I know do not care to answer any questions you may have. And remember to be safe and do the necessary safety checks at the bench and on the range. Also there is no shame in having your worked checked by an experienced pistolsmith. Be smart and stay safe. If you plan on sending your gun to a smith to have work completed, shop around find out what other customers experiences have been. Do your homework no one wants to pay a premium price for sub standard work.


Reliability Packages

Most if not all gunsmiths offer a basic reliability package for the 1911. So what is included in a basic reliability package? The extractor face is polished, the bottom of the hook is rounded and polished and it is tensioned to exert the proper amount of force to the case rim. The breechface is trued and polished of tooling marks. Barrels with the standard hardball ramp are opened up (the ramp is cut wider) to feed hollowpoint ammunition. Most models now come from the factory with the barrel ramped for hollowpoints. But they have a habit of leaving sharp edges behind that snag the feeding round. Polishing the feed ramp is usually included in most reliability packages. However this will offer little improvement in feeding unless the ramp has very rough tooling marks. The mirror polished ramps that are seen in most customs is really nothing more than a cosmetic feature. Some may argue that this reduces friction but to me if it’s not broke don’t fix it. However customers have come to expect this feature in high end customs and in my opinion this is why it continues to be done. The ejector can be tuned to direct the fired brass away from the shooter. Being hit in the face with brass was a common problem among guns with the high ejection port. Lowering of the ejection port will give the ejected brass a larger area to escape. The extractor and ejector can then be tuned to throw the spent brass at an angle much less than that of the original. In affect greatly reducing the chances of spent brass hitting you in the face or neck area. The use of extended ejectors will increase the force at which the brass is ejected. Extended ejectors will require lowering of the ejection port to get the best results. If the port is not lowered brass may get caught and not fully eject. Chances are the brass will be damaged if it does manage to fully eject which is only of value if you reload. Some reliability packages will also include replacement springs from a quality manufacturer.
 
Fireblade!

Good post, Randy, and well covered. My mantra has for decades has been:

"Good magazines...Good ammo...A good extractor (Spring tempered steel, please)
and...don't overspring the dang slide. :rolleyes: Thhat'll solve about 98% of the functional reliability issues with an in-spec 1911...but they still won't tolerate
20 years of neglect. Keep'em clean!

Hoo-RAH! (and Woof)

Tuner
 
sm said:
Tuner - Great Post!

How many folks actually run 200 rds of a given carry load in THEIR gun to KNOW that load is reliable in THAT gun?

200 rounds?

You mean per day, right?

I ran a thousand rounds of carry ammo through my carry weapon before I decided to carry it.

200 rounds doesn't prove anything to me, but your milage may vary.
 
Jammer Six Thanks for catching that...

Supposed to have read Minimum of 200 rds.

My 'puter must have made a mistake. They do that - forget stuff I mean ;)

Yes I too run ~ 1k from the weapon - to check function and reliabiity of weapon. I also run a minimum of 200 rds of specific loading before I carry for "serious" matters. Say for instance I want to try/ test another brand, grain weight, configuration...etc.
 
I can live with that. :D

I only commented because your post was a huge step up from the standard "I ran a full box of twenty rounds of my carry ammo through my weapon, with only one malfunction..." post, and I figured you were into real reliability. :D
 
My Glock 17 has 19,000+ Rounds through it

My Glock 17...1st generation, issued to me in 1989 has over 19,000 rounds through it. It has never, not once, NEVER malfunctioned.

I have replaced the extractor, and the recoil spring. That's it. I only did that when the slide wouldn't go into battery from a gently lowered position of rest.

I have the 3.5 disconector in it, and have done no other mods. I'd say Sally (That's what I call her) is about as close to 100% reliable as you can get.

In fact...I have never had a malfunction in ANY Glock...and I own seven of them currently, and one I have yet to shoot....lol.

I have Hi Powers that are in the 10,000+ round count, but all of those have had ammo related failures. Mainly with CCI Lawman ammo. Anything with a long profile as the Reminton 115gr jhp, has never hiccupped.

My 1911's have proven reliable, though I can only claim my Kimber and my OLD 70's series Combat Commander have been 100% reliable. The Kimber has only 500 rounds through it...so it is a bit early to say. The Combat Commander has gobbled anyting I have fed it...to the tune of 4-5,000 rounds.

In fact...I have never had a malfunction in ANY Glock...and I own seven of them currently, and one I have yet to shoot....lol.

The gun I owned that was most prone to jamming was my Walther P-88. I Hated that thing. I am SO glad someone traded me 2 model 19 Smiths, and a Hi Power for it in 1992.

But, I am one who is a firmn believer in loving the gun you're with. Clean it, feed it right, and make sure you check it out often.
 
Reliability, Reliability, Reliability

Nice to see some emphasis placed on "first things". The first third or so of my shooting career centered on the 1911 platform, but management weenies put the hex on that and mandated the revolver. Finished out my LEO career to include instructing with the wheelgun, and through experience I personally trust it more than *any* semiauto.

Am however revisiting my roots with the 1911, but with a SA Mil-Spec supplanting the old DCM GI guns which are now semiretired. Even though the issue is a bit academic (I still rely on Old Faithful, the .357) I think I favor hardball or something very close to it on principle.

Currently reading Deming's book on quality. More makers of 1911 clones should have read it...

Let a thousand flowers bloom on this topic.
 
Bloomin' Flowers

Dienekes said:

Currently reading Deming's book on quality. More makers of 1911 clones should have read it...

Let a thousand flowers bloom on this topic.

Dienekes...BINGO! The 1911's rep for unreliability is a fairly recent one...About the last 25 years, give or take. Hard to make the younger guys believe that there was a time that the guns enjoyed a reputation not unlike the Kalashnikov rifle
for functional reliability under hellish conditions.

Another flower is blooming:

Who amongst us regularly clean the gun, but not the magazine? The magazine is
NOT an accessory, as some would assume. It's part of the gun, and should be
maintained with the same care. Clean it. LIGHTLY oil the outer spring coils with a
slightly oil-dampened cloth or paper towel. Visually inspect for burrs, dents, dings,
and defects.

Keep it goin'!

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Tuner,
You every write any threads concerning proper maintenance? Its something I have been meaning to get to. A little something to send back with customers guns. I get them in either dripping with grease and oil or dry as a bone. I think it would make a good thread if theres not one already out there.

Regards,
 
re:

Marshall said:

In short, clean, oil and maintain your guns while shooting them often enough to "know them".
___________

That is probably the single most important aspect of it. I can't remember how many guns that I've "fixed" by simply givin'em a good scrubbin.' Glocks too.
Keep it clean! "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine..."

Tag...Glocks need maintenence too...or they'll puke just like the rest. Sorry. :neener:


Stevie-Ray said:

>>And Flitz the feed ramp.<<
___________________

uh-UH!! Seen a lotta guys get into "Double Trouble" by goin' at the ramp and throat of their "Pride and Joy" with flitz and a Dremel. :cool:

Feeding is just one small part of the whole reliability picture.
 
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