Analysis of a reloading failure

[mr tikka]

I'm new to the forum and don't shoot handguns. I load 223 rem, 308 win and 303 brit for my rifles. I fired a friends ruger revolver recently. He was feeding me with 38 cartridges to start and later gave me some 357 that chambered and fired (with noticably more punch) in the same gun. Is this safe? Why not use 38 cases for 38 loads and vice versa?

 

[wanderinwalker]

I'm new to the forum and don't shoot handguns. I load 223 rem, 308 win and 303 brit for my rifles. I fired a friends ruger revolver recently. He was feeding me with 38 cartridges to start and later gave me some 357 that chambered and fired (with noticably more punch) in the same gun. Is this safe? Why not use 38 cases for 38 loads and vice versa?

First off, welcome!

Second, 38 Specials in a .357 chamber is perfectly safe. The .357 was developed from heavy loaded .38 Specials; the longer case prevents it from being chambered in .38 Special guns (which are not strong enough for the pressure), but .38s can be used as a mild load in a .357.

Third, loading reduced loads in Magnum cases is commonly done for one of two reasons: 1) Somebody has a ton of Magnum cases on hand. I've been doing this for years with .44 Magnums, as .44 Magnum cases are far easier to come by the .44 Specials. I have lots of freebie .44 Magnum cases I've been given.
2) To reduce crud buildup in the chamber. Yes, this is potentially a real issue, not imaginary. My .357 usually has quite a bit of crud at the end of the chambers when I'm done shooting lead .38 Specials in it. I don't want to try to chamber and fire a .357 on top of all of that, so it's the short cases until I get home and clean the chambers for the next outing.

 

[mr tikka]

Thanks. Just read this thread and thought I'd better clarify things. As I said, I don't shoot handguns (have to jump through too many hoops in Aus).

 

[Jumping Frog]

If anyone has QUICKLOAD, it would be theoretically interesting to see what the pressure and velocity differences would be due to the case volume difference between a .357 Mag and .38 SP. In other words, take a published minimum load for .38 SP with 158 jacketed bullet, then run the numbers for the same load in a .357 case. Case volume matters.

 

[kingmt]

Still looking for a COL. I can't help you without it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Lyman used the 158 gr Hornady for their .357 Magnum data. OAL was 1.59".
I think the OP said he crimped in the groove so was presumably at the same length.
Close enough for a first cut.

 

[kingmt]

I have read over & over his post not being able to find COL. I don't want to assume anything so if someone wants to quote where I'm missing it I'd be thankful.

 

[grubbylabs]

Always be sure to load withing safe data. Under charging magnum powders is as dangerous as going above listed data.

I usually reference several different books when developing loads. And always start at or just above minimum if using a magnum powder.

 

[kingmt]

What is a "magnum powder"? How would it be more dangerous?

 

[grubbylabs]

Blue Dot, Win 296,4227, and several others that are typical for magnum loads. If underloaded they will produce pressure spikes that can cause catastrophic failures. I am not sure of all of them but I have read in several places including powder mfg that these powder specifically are prone to causing unpredictable and abnormal high pressure spikes when not loaded to at least the starting load.

 

[kingmt]

Grub

I'm sure you have read it in several places because I have also but there is no proof. Someone misread Hogodons warning like I'm sure you did & it is spreading like wild fire. We already covered this at the top of the thread.

As for "MAGNUM POWDER" these are middle of the road for what is considered for most cartridges between 25 ACP & 50 BMG. For me they are to slow for a 357 Magnum but just right for 223 to 30-06. That would make them rifle powder. Right?

 

[kelbro]

Great looking dog there Grubby.

 

[grubbylabs]

Great looking dog there Grubby.

Thanks.

 

[floydster]

I think I'm going to cry.

 

[Waywatcher]

Do not load 158XTP over Trail Boss!

Use load manuals!

You're lucky you weren't hurt!

 

[kingmt]

We already covered this at the top of the thread.

Sorry that was another thread.

 

[FROGO207]

My take on this whole thing is that IF IT WAS SAFE to reload with the data you used for a plated bullet it would have been included in the manual. Yes, some do try to go outside the box and yes, it sometimes works out well. But if it was really safe the propellant manufacturers would say it was OK to load as such. If you want a low recoil load try using a propellant that has a lower velocity as it is listed in the data. Also a bulkier propellant will fill the case more and therefore be less position sensetive for you. Please do pay attention to the 750 FPS low VEL limit on that bullet if you do continue to use it. I also will wander out side the box sometimes but will be darn sure that the cause and effect are well known before I try anything. Stay safe.