Angle Of Cant

[willb]

What angle of cant do you prefer for your holstered firearm? Zero degrees being the barrel is perpendicular to the ground. For IWB? For OWB?

To give you an idea of angle - At a 3/9 o'clock carry position a 25 degree cant would have the muzzle pointed about 12" behind your heel.

Thank you.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Never thought about it. Why would it matter?

 

[willb]

It's the positioning of the grip for optimal efficiency when drawing the firearm from the holster. I believe the FBI recommends an angle between 15 and 25 degrees. I'm just wondering how much attention is paid to this kind of detail by the general public who carry.

 

[Rexster]

IWB: Well, apparently 18 degrees is most comfortable, in my case, for behind-the-hip IWB, because the Milt Sparks VM II is built that way, according to Tony Kanaley, who now runs Milt Sparks. I do not like that draw angle, but, for traditional behind-the-hip IWB to be tolerable, 18 degrees, it is. Notably, this severe amount of cant seems less-evil with shorter-barreled handguns, as they “clear leather” more expediently.

For shorter-term IWB carry, like two to three hours, max, I would rather carry nearer the point of the hip, with ~5 degrees of cant, something I will do with a sizable revolver, when I am in an environment* where I want serious shoot-ablity, at longer range, but just have to carry inside the trousers, due to cover garment length.

OWB: I “prefer” zero cant, at ~0300/0900, ideally. 0300 is where I carried duty handguns, for almost 34 years, which does tend to hard-wire one’s conditioned reflexes. (My mandated/issued duty holsters had some amount of cant, which I did NOT favor.) Zero cant remains OK a bit forward of 0300/0900, but just a bit of reverse cant makes for a cleaner draw, forward of the hip. An example is the slight reverse cant seen with the Kramer Crossdraw version of his Vertical Scabbard, which I will wear a bit forward of my hip, for a “strong-side” draw. (Wearing a sizable revolver forward of the hip is not the most-concealable set-up!) The practicalities of concealment often mandate carrying a bit farther back than 0300, with whatever cant is built into the Milt Sparks PMK, my most-favored revolver holster. The slightly lower position works better for me, requiring less shoulder/elbow/wrist articulation.

For reference, I have a short waist, and relatively long arms, so carry far behind the hip makes for somewhat severe articulation of the wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints, during the draw, especially if using IWB carry, and especially if carrying on my right side.

*An example is when I drive an elderly neighbor/friend to her bank. I am age 60, and getting a bit stooped, and she is in her late Eighties; we may look like easy prey, to the “follow-home” robbery types.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Guess im doing it right. I can grab my gun easy where it is. Usually at 2-3:00. When im in the car. I keep a gun on the console for quick access.

 

[Rexster]

Never thought about it. Why would it matter?

It's the positioning of the grip for optimal efficiency when drawing the firearm from the holster. I believe the FBI recommends an angle between 15 and 25 degrees. I'm just wondering how much attention is paid to this kind of detail by the general public who carry.

Defensive carry of handguns tends to place the defender in the position of having to catch-up to a threat that is already in progress. So, yes, indeed, optimal efficiently, of the draw/presentation, is so very important. I doubt that most handgun owners pay much attention to this.

 

[jar]

It's interesting to look at what is possibly the best fighting revolver holster ever created, the Bill Jordan holster. Cant though is just a very small part of the considerations. Having a stiff angled away from the body steel shank that wraps around a wide 2"+ belt and extra thick and stiff leather makes sure the revolver is held securely and positioned for use. A strap forward of the hammer spur helps with retention. The grip is held away from the body and belt, the trigger is fully exposed and accessible, the holster has a slight forward cant and the top is cut low to make it easy to clear.

What it does not do though is conceal anything.

 

[willb]

IWB: Well, apparently 18 degrees is most comfortable, in my case, for behind-the-hip IWB, ...

Mr. Rexster, what a terrific response, thank you for taking the time.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Mine is in the waist band at 18 deg I believe. I need to loose a few pounds to make it Optimal again. Working on it.

 

[Sacramento Johnson]

Zero cant on OWB.

 

[bearcreek]

What angle of cant do you prefer for your holstered firearm? Zero degrees being the barrel is perpendicular to the ground. For IWB? For OWB?

To give you an idea of angle - At a 3/9 o'clock carry position a 25 degree cant would have the muzzle pointed about 12" behind your heel.

Thank you.

My appendix IWB holster has 0 cant. Woods/ (rarely) open carry holster is 28°.

I'm just wondering how much attention is paid to this kind of detail by the general public who carry.

My observation, as a long time carrier and CCW instructor, is that the general, gun owning/carrying public puts the bare minimum of thought into the holster that they carry.

 

[Archie]

For a duty (open carry) handgun, I desire a zero degree (points straight down) angle.
For a hide out I usually want it just behind my strong side hip (right in my case) and canted so the end of the barrel and the bottom of the butt are on the same vertical line. I have no idea of the angle. This makes for the least possible fore to aft distance and (seems to be) less noticeable.

 

[DR505]

It's interesting to look at what is possibly the best fighting revolver holster ever created, the Bill Jordan holster. Cant though is just a very small part of the considerations. Having a stiff angled away from the body steel shank that wraps around a wide 2"+ belt and extra thick and stiff leather makes sure the revolver is held securely and positioned for use. A strap forward of the hammer spur helps with retention. The grip is held away from the body and belt, the trigger is fully exposed and accessible, the holster has a slight forward cant and the top is cut low to make it easy to clear.

What it does not do though is conceal anything.

View attachment 1094721 View attachment 1094722

When I was working at the USBP this holster was known as the “Bill Jordan Give-away holster.”

Nearly all the holsters I was issued at the Bureau were all vertical draw; no cant at all.

 

[JohnKSa]

It's the positioning of the grip for optimal efficiency when drawing the firearm from the holster.

Cant in carry holsters is typically done for comfort/concealment, not so much to make it easier/faster to draw. In some cases, it is done because the positioning of the holster for comfort/concealment makes it necessary to cant it for access. If the grip of the gun is high on the body, pulling it straight up may not be possible and so some cant is necessary.

Zero cant, or even negative cant is what you'll see in people carrying where the only concern is ease of access and rapid draw. But those folks will typically be carrying in a holster that puts the grip of the gun lower on the body than a typical concealment holster.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Not sure on the exact angle, but some forward cant please! My duty holster has more neutral cant (still slightly forward). IWB forward cant is necessary for comfort and concealment in my experience.

 

[Archie]

... the Bill Jordan holster.

Made by Don Hume of Miami, Oklahoma. Had one when I was first in the Border Patrol. It was great if standing or sitting on a horse. I didn't ride a horse and seldom 'just stood'. Found out during the first fifteen seconds of sitting in a car (actually a Jeep Wagoneer of the late 1970s) the holster was too low and I couldn't set in a car (of any sort).
The late Mr. Jordan (in No Second Place Winner) mentioned the butt forward cant was no faster or slower than any other configuration. At the time I had one it was already superseded by the thumb snap retainer.

It's interesting to look at what is possibly the best fighting revolver holster ever created...

After using the device, I decided it was one of the worst available. At the time, the best holster I found to use was similar but mounted on the belt line instead of hanging below and had a thumb snap type safety retainer. I recall it was made by Don Hume also. Having it all snug and tight was comforting, one's balance and movement was not hampered by shifting weight or center of gravity.

What it does not do though is conceal anything.

We agree. But I think jar agrees with me, that goal was NOT part of the plan.

 

[Mizar]

Whatever angle is more comfortable for you and your body shape - both carry and drawing. If it's your first CCW holster, then you have to find out by yourself, but if it's your N-th CCW holster and still asking that question... You are not doing something right.

 

[jar]

Made by Don Hume of Miami, Oklahoma. Had one when I was first in the Border Patrol. It was great if standing or sitting on a horse. I didn't ride a horse and seldom 'just stood'. Found out during the first fifteen seconds of sitting in a car (actually a Jeep Wagoneer of the late 1970s) the holster was too low and I couldn't set in a car (of any sort).
The late Mr. Jordan (in No Second Place Winner) mentioned the butt forward cant was no faster or slower than any other configuration. At the time I had one it was already superseded by the thumb snap retainer.
After using the device, I decided it was one of the worst available. At the time, the best holster I found to use was similar but mounted on the belt line instead of hanging below and had a thumb snap type safety retainer. I recall it was made by Don Hume also. Having it all snug and tight was comforting, one's balance and movement was not hampered by shifting weight or center of gravity.
We agree. But I think jar agrees with me, that goal was NOT part of the plan.

There was one car I owned where I kinda could wear the Jordan but it was my 1950 Chevy Coupe and there wasn't anything or any part or any position in that car that was comfortable so the Jordan was just more of the same.

 

[Archie]

Yeah, jar. As much as I revere and admire the late Bill Jordan, the holster was designed for one riding a horse at most.
I sat in the vehicle at about an eighty degree list to starboard for about the first two weeks.
But it was a much better holster than the 'attachable bags' prior. Don Hume did quality work, too.