deadeye dick
Member
New to rifle reloading, and have read a lot in the forum about annealing. When do you know if you have to anneal a case, if at all. I load 223 Rem. only, the rest is handgun.
Annealing
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Bcwitt
Member
You might not ever have to. If you stick to the 3 to 5 loadings & scrap it rule, you should be ok. Annealing becomes nessesary when you form cases.
lightman
Member
Winchester's poor quality QC from back around 2007-2008 is what caused me to start annealing. Mostly because I was getting a really high % of neck/shoulder splits on the first firing.
So I would say when your cases start failing in the neck/shoulder area.
So I would say when your cases start failing in the neck/shoulder area.
edwardware
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Completely independent of caliber, start annealing when it gets you an accuracy advantage. When many-times-fired brass shows less accuracy that once-fired, you'll know it's time.
Palladan44
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These guys got it covered! ...yup
sparkyv
Member
I don't anneal for accuracy, I anneal to extend brass lifetime. I've never had to anneal .223 Rem.
jmorris
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You never “have to”.
Some methods can do more harm than good.
Done properly it can extend case life almost as much as a die for a particular chamber it is fired in, set correctly, can. One is a reduction in work harding, as the case isn’t worked, the other relieves the stress and makes the material more ductile.
If the method and application adds consistency, it can promote better accuracy as well.
This is worth reading.
https://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
Some methods can do more harm than good.
Done properly it can extend case life almost as much as a die for a particular chamber it is fired in, set correctly, can. One is a reduction in work harding, as the case isn’t worked, the other relieves the stress and makes the material more ductile.
If the method and application adds consistency, it can promote better accuracy as well.
This is worth reading.
https://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
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Spare Parts
Member
+1 jmorris. The answer is "it depends".
Pistol: There is a link in the "other" recent annealing thread to someone who did Actual Science™ and reloaded brass until failure. The number was something over 30 reloads until the case mouth split. Several THR members confirm. My 5th-loaded pistol cases are doing OK.
Rifle: higher pressure. Semi-auto expands the case, then the die smashes it back to SAAMI spec. May work-harden. Some calibers are worse than others - something about "overbore". It was on the internet somewhere, so it must be true! For my .308 bolt-action, I only size the neck. I recently annealed those cases, but it was mostly for educational purposes. Again, +1 what jmorris said.
Personally, I have never annealed 5.56. Some are on their 3rd or 4th reload, but I no longer count. There are plenty of range pickups; a lifetime supply. Just watch for split case mouths.
Pistol: There is a link in the "other" recent annealing thread to someone who did Actual Science™ and reloaded brass until failure. The number was something over 30 reloads until the case mouth split. Several THR members confirm. My 5th-loaded pistol cases are doing OK.
Rifle: higher pressure. Semi-auto expands the case, then the die smashes it back to SAAMI spec. May work-harden. Some calibers are worse than others - something about "overbore". It was on the internet somewhere, so it must be true! For my .308 bolt-action, I only size the neck. I recently annealed those cases, but it was mostly for educational purposes. Again, +1 what jmorris said.
Personally, I have never annealed 5.56. Some are on their 3rd or 4th reload, but I no longer count. There are plenty of range pickups; a lifetime supply. Just watch for split case mouths.
JFrank
Member
I will be another of the minority here and just say that If you don't know weather to anneal or not, then don't.
Annealing ..if you know what your doing can be a fix for a problem you shouldn't have. I recommend you spend more time on die selection and a good set of calipers. Learn how to measure chambers and brass before and after firing, perhaps down the road a bit set 10 cases aside to experiment and compare performance to a standard you have developed. I get many many firings on my brass and never anneal.
Annealing ..if you know what your doing can be a fix for a problem you shouldn't have. I recommend you spend more time on die selection and a good set of calipers. Learn how to measure chambers and brass before and after firing, perhaps down the road a bit set 10 cases aside to experiment and compare performance to a standard you have developed. I get many many firings on my brass and never anneal.
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sparkyv
Member
LOL! 
My exception: 460S&W. Many X-frame shooters report short brass lifetime without annealing. Although I haven't reloaded my brass more than 4 times and haven't experienced case failure, I anneal since the brass is so spendy!
My exception: 460S&W. Many X-frame shooters report short brass lifetime without annealing. Although I haven't reloaded my brass more than 4 times and haven't experienced case failure, I anneal since the brass is so spendy!
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Blue68f100
Member
I started annealing every time (rifle) when I started getting new once fired brass splitting on the 1st reload. I've even seen new factory ammo spit at the neck, 1 firing. Simi-autos are harder on brass than bolt guns. You normally work the brass more getting it back to spec.
I don't anneal straight wall brass or pistol cartridges.
I don't anneal straight wall brass or pistol cartridges.
Cemetery21
Member
^^^ That's been my experience and logic for annealing. For some rifles, I do quite a bit of brass prep - weight/volume sorting, fireforming, etc. I was starting to lose brass due to neck splits in spite of using methods to reduce working the brass. Annealing stopped my splits - absolutely zero since I started.
Pretty sure annealing has some accuracy benefits as well, but the only time I shoot groups is working up loads or sight-in. Accuracy on reactive targets is great anyway. Now I can shoot brass until it won't hold a primer.
Pretty sure annealing has some accuracy benefits as well, but the only time I shoot groups is working up loads or sight-in. Accuracy on reactive targets is great anyway. Now I can shoot brass until it won't hold a primer.
Chuck R.
Member
I anneal pretty religiously for rifle brass, I have a machine and it doesn't take much effort.
As the other guys stated it extends brass life to the point it gets tossed due to loose primer pockets, but it also helps accuracy by providing consistent neck tension.
As the other guys stated it extends brass life to the point it gets tossed due to loose primer pockets, but it also helps accuracy by providing consistent neck tension.
deadeye dick
Member
Thanks to all for some very good advice. I will heed it all.
Bingo, we have a winner.
JFrank
Member
It is tough to disagree with such a talented group of re loaders... But on this particular topic I really believe you would be well served to establish a method of basic load development and brass history while you put together a repeatable load that you can base future decisions on before concerning yourself with curing a problem that hasn't presented itself.
these guys have developed their routine over several years of trial and error, what works for one person isn't necessarily optimum for another but we take a bit here and another there and and test for ourselves and compare to our standard.
To anneal or not isn't just a blanket statement
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I feel the need to quote a published expert. Glen Zediker, in his book, HANDLOADING FOR COMPETITION, on the subject of annealing, states: "My favorite trick is to take any cases I need to anneal, stand them all up in a pan, and then tip them all over into the trash can and go get me some mo!"
Glen recently passed away and will be missed, RIP. His book, however, will live forever with those of us who practice match reloading.
As far as case life goes, Scott Medesha, U.S. Palma Team Member, states: "They [brass cases] slowly whittle down through attrition: necks cracking, head separations, that kind of thing. I probably average somewhere around 15-20 reloadings on the Long Range stuff."
I concur with those assessments. I don't throw brass out before it's time. Adjust your sizing die to size for YOUR chamber. Develop your inspection skills to cull out cases that are approaching end of life. Some of the signs I look for include loosened primer pockets and small cracks/splits before and after sizing.
Glen recently passed away and will be missed, RIP. His book, however, will live forever with those of us who practice match reloading.
As far as case life goes, Scott Medesha, U.S. Palma Team Member, states: "They [brass cases] slowly whittle down through attrition: necks cracking, head separations, that kind of thing. I probably average somewhere around 15-20 reloadings on the Long Range stuff."
I concur with those assessments. I don't throw brass out before it's time. Adjust your sizing die to size for YOUR chamber. Develop your inspection skills to cull out cases that are approaching end of life. Some of the signs I look for include loosened primer pockets and small cracks/splits before and after sizing.
Ranger99
Member
I don't anneal at all
JMHO- I think annealing is more helpful
to those that are shooting the higher
pressure cartridges.
I annealed a batch of cases years ago
in my beginning loading days because
I was told I should, and I really didn't need
to, but didn't know any better.
I meticulously inspect all my cases and
do the paper-clip-on-the-inside-of-bottleneck
cases thing, and I haven't had any problems
with any of the ammo I load.
IMO it's like every other thing I've done-
You have to take all the advice offered
and sort out the diamonds from the manure. One man's diamonds will be another's
manure. Only you can pick out your
diamonds
Good Luck
JMHO- I think annealing is more helpful
to those that are shooting the higher
pressure cartridges.
I annealed a batch of cases years ago
in my beginning loading days because
I was told I should, and I really didn't need
to, but didn't know any better.
I meticulously inspect all my cases and
do the paper-clip-on-the-inside-of-bottleneck
cases thing, and I haven't had any problems
with any of the ammo I load.
IMO it's like every other thing I've done-
You have to take all the advice offered
and sort out the diamonds from the manure. One man's diamonds will be another's
manure. Only you can pick out your
diamonds
Good Luck
Yep! I am not going to argue with a guy who tosses his brass every two reloads, but he is throwing away good money as far as I am concerned.
Ranger99
Member
I have some 30/30 that have probably
10 or 12 refills with no annealing.
Most all my discards are for loose
primer pockets
Ditto on primer pockets except for my 22 K Hornet. Those little cases are usually scrapped with small cracks at the base of the shell, or a split in the neck. I think most high pressure rounds are prone to the pockets loosing up.
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