Another 12 year old tasered and update on recent incident.

[jsalcedo]

Fla. Officer Uses Taser on 12-Year-Old Boy



PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. (AP) - Police used a Taser on a 12-year-old boy who attacked another special-needs student, the third time this fall authorities in South Florida have used a stun gun on children.

Police said the student was Tasered on Dec. 10 after he tried to stab another student with a pencil on a school bus, then kicked and threatened an officer.

The boy was charged with several offenses, including aggravated assault and resisting a police officer with violence. He was released from custody.

Pembroke Pines police Cmdr. David Golt said the officer used the Taser properly.


In November, a Miami-Dade County police officer used a Taser on a 12-year-old girl who was caught skipping class. Officials said the officer faces disciplinary action for inappropriately using his Taser.


Two months ago, a Miami-Dade schools security officer used a Taser on a 6-year-old-boy. The boy was holding a shard of glass and had cut himself.

 

[Chipperman]

Well, it sounds like the Tasers are effective at least.
They are 3 for 3 in bringing immediate compliance.

Sounds like they are 2 for 3 in appropriate usage. I bet she'll think twice before playing Hookey again, though.

 

[cerberus]

It's better

To get shocked then get shot

 

[jojo]

I agree that it's better to get shocked than shot, but a 12 year old! I know there are some good sized 12 year olds out there, but I would be pretty hard pressed to find an appropriate circumstance when it would be okay to taser them.

jojo

 

[ExMachina]

Yes, I too would rather be shocked than be shot.

However, the point is that police are using tasers in situations that they would not otherwise shoot, and that they are not exercising much discretion beyond that basic criteria.

..but maybe I'm overly pessemistic? Perhaps 75- year old women really ARE a threat to public safety

 

[TechBrute]

Here's a question...

If TASERs are such a great alternative to guns for police, why can't we have them, too? I'm not talking about the gun-show 8billion-volt bricks, I'm talking about the real TASERs, like the x-26.

 

[cerberus]

They have been using OC around here

Around my neck of the woods the school security have used OC spray on the young thugs when they can't control them.

 

[DMF]

6, 16, or 66, age doesn't matter, because given the right circumstances ANYONE can be a serious threat.

All this whining about the TASER is ridiculous. It's safe, and causes TEMPORARY pain (5 seconds). Therefore if it can be used to resolve the situation quickly, without using other means that could result in permanent injury, then it is the better choice.

 

[DMF]

. . . why can't we have them, too?

You can. The company sells a single shot version to the public.

If you you want the one with multiple cartridges ask the company that makes them why you can't have them.

 

[DMF]

. . . school security have used OC spray on the young thugs . . .

The pain from the TASER lasts 5 seconds. The effects of OC spray can last more than an hour, even after beginning the decon process.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Better Taser than a bullet. Sounds like one life saved - the perpetrator's.

 

[Guy L Johnson]

Sounds Like

Sounds Like, The rubber hose reinvented, I personally don't belive that they should be allowed at this point there have at least 2 dozen deaths since their use has porliferated, and if your objective was interogation whos to say how many times you shot them the juice although it is at least enough to get the answer you wanted. I think the whole idea is simply shocking.
Guy L Johnson

Aditional note a fully grown adult wasnt able to physically subdue a 12 year old girl armed with a pencil, although i was not personally there it sounds like a trigger happy power trip Some one has replied to this post while i was adding the paragraph and i don't mean to offend any leos but the questions remain and the deaths have occured it is a lot diffrent to give a hv low amp shock to a fully grown adult in good physical condition it is diffrent to child or an elderly person or some one like myself who would be at extream risk. It should also be noted that i didnt know that the taser records usage. could i get additional info on this for my own information?

 

[DMF]

Well in answer to your question about how many times you gave someone a shock there is a chip in the TASER that stores that data. After any incident in which the TASER is used that info can be downloaded to check how many times it was used.

As for deaths from the TASER, it pays to do some research there. While there have been a few deaths ASSOCIATED with the TASER, they all had other factors that contributed to the death of the subject. If the TASER were anywhere near as dangerous as you suggest then why hasn't there been a single death among the THOUSANDS of LEOs that have had to take a full 5 second ride before they were allowed to carry one on duty? That's right, all those cops getting shocked (some more than once), yet NONE have died, or even suffered any permanent injury.

Again, all this whining about the TASER is ridiculous. It has been proven to REDUCE deaths and injuries, for officers and suspects alike. It's a good thing, and like anything else there will be occasional misuse/abuse, but overall the TASER has been a huge benefit for everyone, not just cops.

 

[Azrael256]

12 year old! I know there are some good sized 12 year olds out there

Take a stroll through a juvenile corrections facility. A good friend of mine is a guard at the facility in Vernon, Tx. He tells me that you would not believe how violent a 12 year old can be, particularly the "special needs" kids (from the way the article was written, it sounds like this kid is one of them). I was about 5'2" and 120lbs. at 12. Many of the mentally redarded kids don't have the intelligence to accurately assess a threat, and so react like a wild animal. Change "child" to "wildcat" or "wolf," at 5'2", 120lbs., and you're facing a killing machine with enough intelligence to use tools. Think of an agressive, angry great dane with a stabbing weapon.

There isn't enough information in the article to make a decision about what the officer did, but don't discount the child's capabilities because of age.

 

[borderguy]

Sounds Like, The rubber hose reinvented, I personally don't belive that they should be allowed at this point there have at least 2 dozen deaths since their use has porliferated, and if your objective was interogation whos to say how many times you shot them the juice although it is at least enough to get the answer you wanted. I think the whole idea is simply shocking.
Guy L Johnson

Geez!!! It's not torture, and nobody is using them to get confessions. Get the real facts and you'll find more people have died from pepper spray and the carotid restraint.

Those who died after Taser use generally had elevated cocaine levels in their bloodstream and would have died after a non-taser struggle.

But, then there will be those who complain about whatever level of force the police use.

 

[cerberus]

I watched This kid for five years

He was eleven when his Mom eight year old sister and their Grandmother moved into a rent house near us. First thing I noticed was him holding his sister upside down and dropping her on sidewalk on her head. He grew into a 6' 3" 250# monster over the next five years the police were at his house many times. He got kicked off the school bus and off the school football team. He robbed a guys house of video games and his Mom talked the guy out of pressing charges. I was just glad they moved in November. Cause I know I could never get away with shooting this nutty kid and anything I else did would get me into court and sued.

 

[>SHOCK<^>WAVE<]

Would it be any better if they were pepper sprayed or had the wind knocked out
of them ? You have to get control of unrulies some way that won't listen to
reason.

 

[TechBrute]

I think TASERs are a great invention. I have done quite a bit of research on them, and participated in the training given to the Escondido Police when they adopted them.

There are many safeguards built into the TASER to obstruct police abuses with it. I can tell you for a fact that an Escondido Police Officer has to account for every time the TASER is discharged. Sure, there's bound to be some "he said, she said", but not nearly as bad as with batons, as the department has the ability to see each and every discharge and the duration of it. The ID tags also give departments the ability to trace the location of discharges, as well.

Having said that, the one problem I have with TASERs is the company. They sell a neutered version of their products to the general public.

I also wish they didn't cost $1000. I can get 2 Glocks for that much, and won't have to rely on batteries.

 

[ExMachina]

If the TASER were anywhere near as dangerous as you suggest then why hasn't there been a single death among the THOUSANDS of LEOs that have had to take a full 5 second ride before they were allowed to carry one on duty? That's right, all those cops getting shocked (some more than once), yet NONE have died, or even suffered any permanent injury.

Technically correct. But TASERs are dangerous enough that several PDs have lawsuits against TASER and at least the Las Vegas PD no longer trains w/ them:

" Eight of the nearly 500 officers trained were injured after they were shot with a Taser "

 

[Guy L Johnson]

At One Time

At One Time, I agreed withe the ovious majority of you but i belive that there are enough questions about the use and effects of these weapons to ask questions, I have read documented case of them being used on the elderly and people with preexisting medical problems and the relults are not good, I am not an ACLU a$$ but i do have questions and opinions veiwed from my prospective that sets off the alarm bells if it were used on myself it very well could be fatal and the fact that it is viewed as a harmless "Less Than Lethal" method of subduing an unruly "Suspect" it has already degenerated to the point that use has become so liberal that it should be questioned. The job of A LEO is often dangerous and a "Less than Lethal" alternative should be considered BUT in south FL in the last week 3 childeren have been tasered and from as young as age 6. So since it is less than lethal, why not? I do belive that that this is the mindset that has taken over and it needs to be examined and debated just like it is being done here because just as sure as you shoot someone and he dies(w/gun) or you shoot(w/taser) a cocaine user or a disorderly or non compliant suspect and he dies, dead is dead and if there have been deaths and I have seen enough to belive that a precentage of the deths were caused by the use of the taser(Combined with other factors). being a stony or disorderly or noncompliant are not capital offences.

 

[TechBrute]

and at least the Las Vegas PD no longer trains w/ them:

The LV officers were not injured by the TASER, but by the fall when they were zapped. TI has reccomendations for training that minimize fall injuries. I'd be interested to see how such a high percentage were injured by the fall, and what the extent of "injury" is.

One downside to the TASER is that it seems cops are all too eager to use them in some cases.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

When pepper spray first hit the LE market I was a deputy with a S.O. in GA. It seemed that every week someone was in the news for using OC on a person and the media was howling, now it’s tazers.

The FBI has this model called the Use Of Force Continuum. It sets forth the recommended level of response to a given action.

When I was certified to carry OC the FBI said that OC could be used after verbal resistance and before I had to go hands on with someone.

In short if I knew I was going to have to use any level of force to gain compliance from you to effect the arrest I could OC you.

Now the Tazer, the FBI again says we can use the Tazer after you have repeatedly refused verbal commands, the situation involves the threat of bodily harm, meaning I am going to have to whoop the other fella’s @$$ to take him to jail or we may be dealing with an unknown threat, FBI example, he won’t take his hands out of his pockets but that’s all possibility of an undetected weapon.

Unruly person, someone who may be mentally off who is gonna fight anyone who approaches.

See it all boils down to this, before we had these tools at our disposal the only option was a B.A.S.

We would use this B.A.S. and normally this resulted in a trip to the ER for the B.G. Now today we still carry a B.A.S. called the ASP baton. It is very effective, I know I’ve used to three times in the last year, all three time I broke bones on the individual on the receiving end.

If I’d had a Tazer I would have used it instead and three folks would not of gone to jail with casts.

 

[DMF]

. . . being a stony or disorderly or noncompliant are not capital offences.

Well it depends on how non-compliant. Someone trying to attack an officer, and do him serious bodily injury or kill him, just elevated the situation to where lethal force is justified.

Regardless, the premise of your argument is ridiculous. Just because there is some extremely minor possibility that someone could die, doesn't mean the TASER is a bad tool. It is also possible that someone could die from OC, baton strikes during a struggle, or even empty hand controls. However, for all of those the possibility is VERY VERY low. However, your argument suggestst that because it's possible that someone might die accidentally that we should get rid of all those tools used to make apprehensions.

Then expanding on your argument, I guess if it's not a murder, or some other capital crime, we should just quit enforcing the law, because there is some slim chance that when if we OC a non-compliant suspect, or fight him with a baton, or struggle to get cuffs on with empty hands, during an arrest they might die. Well hell we can't even do it to the murder suspects, because they are just suspects, and haven't been convicted yet. OK Guy, I guess we will just stop enforcing the law, and depend on people to turn themselves in because there is a slim possibility they might have a heart attack when the resist while being non-compliant! Great plan!

BTW, let VPC, HCI and Sarah Brady know you're now in favor of more gun control because it's possible someone could die accidentally from firearms.

 

[Kamicosmos]

I think the whole idea is simply shocking.

Pun intended or not?

*Beavis voice* Hit 'im with the Taser! The Taser! *End Beavis voice*

 

[roo_ster]

Think of an agressive, angry great dane with a stabbing weapon.

Now THAT is a disturbing visual.