sadistic compliance tool?

[SSN Vet]

Using this kind of force on an unarmed person is just plain wrong!

I think any LEO needs to think very carefully about using Tasers....I would hate to have this on my conscience.

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JERSEYVILLE, Ill. — Authorities are investigating the death of a 17-year-old boy who died after officers in this St. Louis-area community shot him twice with a stun gun while he carried a Bible and cordless telephone, shouting "I want Jesus."
Roger Holyfield died Sunday night at a St. Louis hospital, a day after the former Jersey Community High School's confrontation with police.
In a statement obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press, police in this community about 40 miles north of St. Louis said Holyfield would not acknowledge officers who approached him, continuing to yell "I want Jesus."
Holyfield became combative when officers tried to calm him, then was shot with a stun gun after ignoring their warnings to comply with their commands, police said. He was shot a second time when he continued struggling, police said.
Holyfield vomited at the scene and was taken by ambulance to a local hospital, then was flown to St. Louis' Cardinal Glennon Hospital, where he died shortly after 8 p.m. the next day, police said.
An autopsy was planned for Tuesday.
While expressing sympathy by Jerseyville's mayor, city commissioners and police to Holyfield's family, the police statement said the city and officers would not discuss the matter further.
Messages were left Tuesday with Jerseyville Police Chief Brad Blackorby, whose department, according to its statement, has been using stun guns for the past five months.
Holyfield was a former Jersey Community High School student but did not attend that school this year, said James Whiteside, superintendent of Jerseyville schools.
In a report released in March, international human rights group Amnesty International said it had logged at least 156 deaths across the country in the previous five years related to police stun guns.
The rise in deaths accompanies a marked increase in the number of U.S. law enforcement agencies employing devices made by Taser International Inc. of Scottsdale, Ariz. About 1,000 of the nation's 18,000 police agencies used Tasers in 2001; more than 7,000 departments had them last year, according to a government study.
Police had used Tasers more than 70,000 times as of last year, Congress' Government Accountability Office said.
Amnesty has urged police departments to suspend the use of Tasers pending more study.
Taser called the study flawed by falsely linking deaths to Taser use when there has been no such official conclusion.
The company has said Tasers have saved more than 9,000 lives because police officers have been able to use stun guns instead of bullets.
Holyfield's death is at least the second in the Metro East calling stun guns into question in recent months.
Nick Mamino Jr. — the 41-year-old son of a former Collinsville police chief — died in April after Collinsville police shot him with a stun gun. Though Mamino's family speculated that the gun might have caused his death, an autopsy report said the weapon was only a contributing factor.
A coroner's jury later ruled Mamino died accidentally when he was hog-tied by police trying to arrest him while he was high on cocaine.

 

[Car Knocker]

Using this kind of force on an unarmed person is just plain wrong!

OK, what kind of force should be used on unarmed people?

 

[buzz_knox]

A Taser, typically, has less chance of harming a person than other non-verbal methods of achieving compliance. A couple of officers taking someone to the ground can very easily cause severe bodily injury, even without any malice.

Barring an unforeseen (and fairly rare) heart ailment, my best guess is that the decedent aspirated some of his vomit. That could easily happen using other techniques.

 

[Zoogster]

High electric current also tends interfere with heart rythm even in healthy individuals for the duration of the tasing. So repeated use could easily lead to a heart attack caused by improper rythm destroying some tissue that leads to death or bleeding shortly after. I also don't like the idea of police having a human off switch to deal with people.

However it requires very little effort, and results in involuntary compliance. An ideal police tool when not wanting to be seen as using excessive force while restraining some bible thumper.
There is no doubt it is a very effective tool that SHOULD result in little harm (if they dont drop headfirst or fall in a harmful manner while unable to protect themself) which makes police work much easier.

If someone does not comply hit them with the off switch, handcuff them. Policing is getting easier, is that good?

 

[GEM]

Glock 22/23s are a human off switch - don't you think? 70,000 Glock applications sounds like more of a problem than the taser usage.

 

[SSN Vet]

key word.....unarmed!

why the need to subdue someone who is unarmed, obviously disturbed, and not involved in any kind of criminal activity, and had not assaulted or threatened anyone.

the kid was not armed.....

unless they considered his Bible threatening.....

or maybe his cell phone...... heck, he might call 911

and for the record....I'm no LEO basher....

but dead is dead...and the state has no authority to run around unnccessarily using "non-lethal" force that has a track record of killing people with any kind of heart condition.

OBTW....the city is going to lose the wrongfull death suite and YOU are going to pay the bill.

 

[Dravur]

PILE ON!!

Yep, the officers should be pistol whipped in public, the unarmed guy should be given a hero's funeral and probably given sainthood......

Now, we do not know if the guy was high, strung out on Jesus or just plain nuts. We don't know, based on the story if he threatened the officers or if the officers felt like shocking a dude for fun.

I'm relatively sure that the officers did not know the shiocking would result in a death. That's why they call the Taser a less than lethal weapon. I'm guessing that the officers did not shock the dude just to see if he wiggles well.

Without knowing these things, it is a little silly to come down on one side or the other.

 

[cordex]

yup, if they don't drop the weapon I'm gonna shoot em' instead of using my Taser... Cause' thats the only other choice.

I believe that in most cases, panic about Taser use is unjustified. This incident is likely among them but without more information, I can't say.

Keep in mind, however, that the only external "weapons" we are aware of in this incident are a book and a phone. If the actor were actively using the book or phone as a weapon your statement would seem to fit better, but I haven't seen a report that indicates that was the case. The report does indicate that the actor was "combative" but we don't know what actions that word actually describes in this case.

 

[roo_ster]

Holding a Bible and shouting "I want Jesus?" Bible-boy's family is gonna OWN the town.

They might as well stomped a kitten or tased a fluffy puppy, too...it wouldn't cost much more in the end.

 

[ilbob]

In a statement obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press, police in this community about 40 miles north of St. Louis said Holyfield would not acknowledge officers who approached him, continuing to yell "I want Jesus."
Holyfield became combative when officers tried to calm him, then was shot with a stun gun after ignoring their warnings to comply with their commands, police said. He was shot a second time when he continued struggling, police said.

Interesting that they don't even try to claim the kid was dangerous in some way. Perhaps an oversight their PR flack will correct later.

Black folk in the south used to get the fire hose when they "would not acknowledge officers who approached them" or 'became combative". Of course, the police back then had different words for it that were less PC.

But, being as there is little in the way of useful information in the story, perhaps it is best to just wait and see what transpires.

 

[Art Eatman]

We've done this subject several times, already. There is nothing new; the problem is that some people are hyper-sensitive to the shock. Neither the user of the Taser or the victim can know ahead of time about the susceptability.

It is quite similar to the problem where a person suffers what should be a "minor" knife or gunshot wound, but goes into shock and dies.

Similar with allergies; bee stings, e.g. Some people will die if given a shot of penicillin. My wife would die if given tetracycline. There is no easy way to know, ahead of time.

Luck of the biological draw.

Art

 

[ArmedBear]

Play it safe.

Avoid hard drugs.