Another $50 in parts back to Lee
- Thread starter YellowLab
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I'm not upset at all and really coudn't care less - just pointing out the obvious and if you don't belive it, do a search. I still pose the question however, why the necessity to jump into a thread merely to make fun of someone elses choice simply because it isn't yours? I've run a Dillon that a friend owns and don't understand the hype - but I don't find the need to trash it.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
I don't have a dog in this hunt, as I don't own either a Lee Progressive (Either a Pro 1000 or a Loadmaster), a Dillon semi-automated turret (550) or a Dillon progressive (650). I agree with Uncle Don related to his comments about the Dillon owners bashing other presses and about his comments that Dillons have problems of their own.
What I do not see is the Dillon owners having zero problems out of their high priced presses and I do see many folks who had problems with their (put the press they bashed here) and are now having problems with their Dillons. Of course, since they now have "the press every one should have" they don't care bash it, after spending all that money on it.
Dillon makes good equipment. I think I will eventually own a couple of their pistol resizing dies and maybe another specialty item or two. But they are expensive and like high priced rifles getting outshot but some fella with a 100 plus year old milsurp, it ain't the gun, it's the man behind the gun.......or the man pulling the handle on the press.
YellowDog,
Hang in there buddy. You'll get this press figured out and when you do, you'll have the satisfaction of having stuck with it and fixed it. I hear those things load some mighty fine ammo pretty fast when they're set up right. I own a Hornady Lock N Load I'm very happy with, but I'm not gonna bash your choice. I too had issues with mine when I first got it. I figured them out or Hornady upgraded the press and the upgrade solved the problem. That's all part of any machinery. Now my press reloads components faster than I can shoot them up or afford to buy them. Maybe I shoulda bought a Lee classic turret press. Wait a second, I think I am planning to do so.
What I do not see is the Dillon owners having zero problems out of their high priced presses and I do see many folks who had problems with their (put the press they bashed here) and are now having problems with their Dillons. Of course, since they now have "the press every one should have" they don't care bash it, after spending all that money on it.
Dillon makes good equipment. I think I will eventually own a couple of their pistol resizing dies and maybe another specialty item or two. But they are expensive and like high priced rifles getting outshot but some fella with a 100 plus year old milsurp, it ain't the gun, it's the man behind the gun.......or the man pulling the handle on the press.
YellowDog,
Hang in there buddy. You'll get this press figured out and when you do, you'll have the satisfaction of having stuck with it and fixed it. I hear those things load some mighty fine ammo pretty fast when they're set up right. I own a Hornady Lock N Load I'm very happy with, but I'm not gonna bash your choice. I too had issues with mine when I first got it. I figured them out or Hornady upgraded the press and the upgrade solved the problem. That's all part of any machinery. Now my press reloads components faster than I can shoot them up or afford to buy them. Maybe I shoulda bought a Lee classic turret press. Wait a second, I think I am planning to do so.
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DaveinFloweryBranch: Go pull the handle a few times on both a Dillon press and a Loadmaster. Take a close look at the mechanics of both. Substitute Hornady, RCBS, just about any other brand for "Dillon". Then judge for yourself about quality of design and function. Previous sentence not too clear: Point is that they'll all be superior to the Loadmaster.
Which is your opinion. I'm guessing I must be part of an exclusive club as I can read directions and set up a press to operate without any problem. I didn't have any need to get rid of something that works as advertised and does it at less than a third of the cost.
Rockstar: Did you have one and couldn't get it to run or are you simply a mouthpiece for othes? I tell you what, send me your email and I'll send you a video of the press working with and without a casefeeder. Then, you send me one back that shows you can keep up. I hate to break it to you but the 550 is nothing more than a turret press - it's just that the turret is on the bottom.
Like I said, I really couldn't care less but in my opinion, Mike Dillon realized that 90% of the progressive loading crowd are idiots. He built a press that overcomes ham handed idiocy and he should be commended for it. On his 550 he probably said, I'll remove the casefeeder because people can't run them anyway, I'll remove auto indexing because most can't get that to work either. I'll have it prime on the bottom because most people can't set dies and by doing this, they don't have to worry about an adjustable feature. Then, I'll charge three times what it costs me to make (It's still aluminum) it because they'll still screw it up and then they will build a monument to me because I send them free parts that they break through their own fault. If they have to break parts that equal the value of another press, his profit is probably only about 30% or so. He banks on those customers who actually know what they are doing to offset those who don't. There is no doubt in my mind that those numbers are crunched at Dillon and that they play the averages. The more people that write about the fantastic no BS warranty that they continue to take advantage of, I just smile because they just outed themselves as part of the crowd I described.
Lee on the other hand makes the incorrect assumption that progressive loaders are fairly bright bunch and can set things up properly. He was wrong about that. Those that can run them love them, those that can't give up and buy a press that enables thier degree of capability to operate them.
Rockstar: Did you have one and couldn't get it to run or are you simply a mouthpiece for othes? I tell you what, send me your email and I'll send you a video of the press working with and without a casefeeder. Then, you send me one back that shows you can keep up. I hate to break it to you but the 550 is nothing more than a turret press - it's just that the turret is on the bottom.
Like I said, I really couldn't care less but in my opinion, Mike Dillon realized that 90% of the progressive loading crowd are idiots. He built a press that overcomes ham handed idiocy and he should be commended for it. On his 550 he probably said, I'll remove the casefeeder because people can't run them anyway, I'll remove auto indexing because most can't get that to work either. I'll have it prime on the bottom because most people can't set dies and by doing this, they don't have to worry about an adjustable feature. Then, I'll charge three times what it costs me to make (It's still aluminum) it because they'll still screw it up and then they will build a monument to me because I send them free parts that they break through their own fault. If they have to break parts that equal the value of another press, his profit is probably only about 30% or so. He banks on those customers who actually know what they are doing to offset those who don't. There is no doubt in my mind that those numbers are crunched at Dillon and that they play the averages. The more people that write about the fantastic no BS warranty that they continue to take advantage of, I just smile because they just outed themselves as part of the crowd I described.
Lee on the other hand makes the incorrect assumption that progressive loaders are fairly bright bunch and can set things up properly. He was wrong about that. Those that can run them love them, those that can't give up and buy a press that enables thier degree of capability to operate them.
I gave up trying to justify owning the press I own. Its like any other debate (9mm vs .45, .223 vs .308, ford vs chevy) there is no right answer, only opinions.
My press works fine... I am not setting it up right, with help I will figure it out.
If you think your press makes better ammo than my press... well, then OK. Its not true, but you can think what you like.... I don;t care to change minds.
Its like going to a gym... I wear baggy sweats and an old Ozzy tee shirt. EVERYONE else wears some sort of leotard or $100 outfit. I lift the same weights, ride the same bike... but they probibly think that they are getting a better workout. Exact same thing with my press.
My press works fine... I am not setting it up right, with help I will figure it out.
If you think your press makes better ammo than my press... well, then OK. Its not true, but you can think what you like.... I don;t care to change minds.
Its like going to a gym... I wear baggy sweats and an old Ozzy tee shirt. EVERYONE else wears some sort of leotard or $100 outfit. I lift the same weights, ride the same bike... but they probibly think that they are getting a better workout. Exact same thing with my press.
Why do you assume the only Dillon press that anybody owns is a 550. Mike Dillon entered the market by offering a Star reloader upgrade kit, followed by the RL-1000 and the RL-1050. I own a loaded XL650 and I love it but if I get another progressive press it will be a super 1050 which is more complex than anything Lee makes and they run even in commercial environments.
As far as the warranty goes what happens if YellowLab doesn't get the small primer system running and his warranty goes out? What exactly is the value of a machine that doesn't work and the company that sold it won't stand behind it?
The no BS warranty is nice but Dillon's technical support team which is top notch. I personally haven't had the need but I know someone that had problem with the primers feeding in a new Super 1050 and Dillon support stayed on the phone with him for hours until the problem was figured out and then overnighted the parts that were wrong. I've never heard of any comparable story coming from Lee's support, but I have herd good things about RCBS, and Hornady's tech support. I wonder why.
That's real classy calling 90% of the progressive reloading crowd idiots, does that make you feel better about yourself and your superior intellect?
Actually if you read Lee's self promotional book, errrr loading manual you'll see Lee believes that people don't really want quality tools that are overbuilt to last a lifetime but instead want something cheap so that when it breaks they can just though it away and buy a new one. Not my words I'm just paraphrasing Mr. Lee.
Yes I do understand that many Lee presses do run but I also understand that Lee progressive presses have more than their share of problems. Yes I do not own a Lee progressive press but I do know people who do own Lee presses among other brands.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Friends don't let friends load with Lee.
jk.
I use Lee stuff with excellent results.
jk.
I use Lee stuff with excellent results.
First, I can guarantee you that if Yellow Labs press goes out of warranty, Lee will stand behind it. Why people assume that this isn't the case, I don't know - if you can give me an example of them saying "sorry, it's out of warranty", it would be news to me. How do they know how long he had it? - Geez.
Stayed on the phone with him for hours huh - it goes to further my point. If you have to stay on the phone for "hours" over a primer system, there is a weak link somewhere - you figure out where. I'm doubting the parts were wrong - it's more like they were destroyed, brokern or otherwise damaged and the parts were sent out to him - just like Lee does. If you've never heard of good stories of Lee support - you're not reading very many threads. I've never heard of them actually charging someone 1/2 new price if a press was sent to them regardles of age.
With all the people saying what they do about Lee and Lee owners, I just decided to return the favor - and it raises someones dander. It may not be classy, but it's no different than the baseless claims made by some that have no clue what they are doing. What a hypocrite. As to my feeling of superior intellect - no, but I can read and follow directions and it apparantly causes you to be ticked off about it. It is people such as yourself that evidently feel superior just because your press is blue and you make that well known. I stand by my asserstion that Dillon is a brilliant marketer and over engineers product trying to stay ahead of the majority of people who continue to break stuff and then hold someone else responsible. He has turned that problem around and capitalized on it and for that I respect him. Someone is paying for it and it's Dillon owners that know what they are doing and don't have to spend "hours" on the phone with tech support.
Remember, Mike Dillon prefers that you continue to tout the warranty and break your presses and brag about it because he makes money at it. America is a great country.
Can you give me a page number where it says that? Or are you paraphrasing again? I belive he says that there is no reason to "over-engineer", and I personally think he's wrong and it goes to further my point that he gives too much credit to the average progressive press reloader. Most do in fact need something over-engineerd to overcome operator error; Mike Dillon knows it and came to your rescue. All you have to do is pay for it.
Well you guess like ???? Uncle Don, what happened to your superior reading skills I told you it was wrong parts! It was assembled with a large primer tube and the rest were small primer parts causing every 10th or so primers to flip. I'm not sure who assembled the press if it was Dillon or a dealer local to him. The tech support guy listened to the problem and the owner vent a bit first, followed by some simple trouble shooting. After that didn't prove out it was time to disassemble the entire primer system, yea the guy was disassembling the system while on the phone, not an idea situation but you do what you gotta do. Of course he had to run all the primers out of the system before he disassembled the primer system too. After the primer system gets tore down and they start to identify the parts 1 by 1 thats when the problem was discovered. The tech support dude got the part numbers that were needed and had him check the primer swageing assembly while it was disassembled just to make sure since things were already tore down. After it was all said and done it was just about a 2 hour call.
Now for some Lee support contrast from this thread:
Where is the great Lee support here? 4 months and nothing, I rather get down to it and take 2 hours out and get the problem fixed right but that doesn't sound like it's happening here now does it? Uncle Don I am curious do you have to send in parts that get broken to get a replacement when you deal with Lee? Has Lee ever overnighted you parts at no cost to you because you had to load ammo ASAP to shoot a match?
I have never said 1 negative thing about Lee progressive press owner, quit putting words into my mouth. You put yourself up on this pedestal because you can "read directions" but if you read into this the only person that should be offended is YellowLab cause he is obviously too stupid to "read directions" and make his Lee small primer system work. He's the one with problems getting his press to run not me. And no I don't think I'm superior because I have a Dillon press, but I'm not the one chastising everybody that can't make a Lee press run, you are. Way to show them current and former Lee press owners how good you are!!!!
I had a similar problem. Make sure there is absolutely no wiggle to the press or the bench.
Use a smooth touch operating the machine.
This shouldn't turn into a Lee bashing thread when someone needs a hand getting his press to work!
red
Use a smooth touch operating the machine.
This shouldn't turn into a Lee bashing thread when someone needs a hand getting his press to work!
red
Yellowlab has punched out several thousand rounds without issue. He is having a problem now and to my knowledge, Lee is standing behind it. No, I haven't had to send in any parts because after countless thousands of rounds, I haven't hand to ask for a replacement on anything. I've ruined one single $1.00 part and have NEVER made a good attempt at cleaning the priming system. As to the directions - no, I don't think that puts me in a special class, it makes me normal. However, even with videos, directions, "expert" phone support and no BS warranty, many of you still manage to break parts that amaze me.
I read the bashing all the time and most of the time I stay silent. What I find interesting is that when I speak up, I'm accused of having the attitidue that was presented by someone else in the first place. Apparantly, it's fine to bash a Lee product but it's somehow sacreligious to even defend let alone give a taste of someone's own medicine.
The people I'm referring to about not being able to run a Lee Loadmaster are those who bash it and have switched because they couldn't make it run, and you know it. Yellowlab is frustrated right now but he'll work through it. BTW - what is your experience with the Loadmaster? To be honest, I rarely look for a fight, but when I see the comments I read, I defend - why is that difficult to belive and why is it hard for you to understand? I'm simply giving a taste of peoples own medicine. It continues to surpsise me that some Dillon owners have no concept of how they come across to others but are somehow surprised and defensive when it's pointed out.
Lastly - I still doubt that Dillon somehow built the press with the "wrong" parts but even if they did - two hours still means there was definately a weak link somewhere. I'm out! Have a ball.
I read the bashing all the time and most of the time I stay silent. What I find interesting is that when I speak up, I'm accused of having the attitidue that was presented by someone else in the first place. Apparantly, it's fine to bash a Lee product but it's somehow sacreligious to even defend let alone give a taste of someone's own medicine.
The people I'm referring to about not being able to run a Lee Loadmaster are those who bash it and have switched because they couldn't make it run, and you know it. Yellowlab is frustrated right now but he'll work through it. BTW - what is your experience with the Loadmaster? To be honest, I rarely look for a fight, but when I see the comments I read, I defend - why is that difficult to belive and why is it hard for you to understand? I'm simply giving a taste of peoples own medicine. It continues to surpsise me that some Dillon owners have no concept of how they come across to others but are somehow surprised and defensive when it's pointed out.
Lastly - I still doubt that Dillon somehow built the press with the "wrong" parts but even if they did - two hours still means there was definately a weak link somewhere. I'm out! Have a ball.
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Uncle Don said:
First I really do hope Yellowlab get his machine up and running and if I hand any insight to share I would. Now to the point of only insinuating former Lee Loadmasters owners are idiots but current ones having problems are well alright, that's just lame. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, well at least that's how I see it.
Uncle Don said:
Yes I find it hard to believe any reloader would call 90% of the progressive reloading crowd are idiots. I do see lots of Dillon owners say "buy a Dillon and don't look back, you wont regret it", but that's a far cry from "I can't believe how stupid you were to buy a Lee press" which is something I have never seen any Dillon owner say thank God. That would be a terrible thing to say. I do understand the allure of getting a press that cost less (I came very close to getting a Hornady press but I was buying right when Hornady was changing from the projector to the lock-n-load). I do also know how it feels to regret going the less expensive route and buying twice, it's not fun, no actually it sucks. I wouldn't say anything to put salt in those wounds, but obviously you have no problems doing just that.
Show me where someone in this thread called a Lee press owner an idiot (other than yourself), to be honest I don't know what your defending. Why do you feel so compelled to defend a reloading machine? If it's such a great machine it's reputation should be just as great. I really don't find that reloaders are in general are full of you know what and will share their experiences honestly. Of course you'll have someone that has an ax to grind but when you see a trend there is probably a reason that trend exist.
Uncle Don said:
Nice round about way of calling me a lier, your so cool Uncle Don, can I be your friend? As far as the "week link" comment, how many Loadmasters have been used by commercial reloaders, this was a super 1050, yes you can load 100,000+ rounds a month on one and it will keep running, long as it's set up right of course
How many rounds have you loaded on your loadmaster? I only have ~20,000 loaded on my 650 I need to shoot more.I have used a Loadmaster quite a bit, set one up (used) and got it running. Lee tech support wasn't worth the dial time, ended up just winging it. What the heck, the press with case and bullet feeders cost me $80 and came with 3 powder measures 
When set up RIGHT they will load a TON of ammo in a real hurry, at least as fast as a Dillon 650. What irked me, and sent it down the road, is the fact that it needs 'tuning' now and then to stay working. Running beautifully, POUNDING out the ammo at a furious clip, then WHAM all comes to a screeching halt due to primer feed problems. Twiddle and tweak, get it going again and pound out a hundred or two and WHAM, all is in the crapper again.
Learning how many bullets you can have in the feeder tube, switching to a new bullet and learning how many of them will work, the powder measures just plain suck (sorry, but that is how I see it) and constant primer feed problems just took the luster out of the Loadmaster. I sold it to a friend with a 100% money back guarantee, told him EXACTLY what I thought of it and he still wanted to try it. This guy is a MASTER mechanic and a super sharp guy all around. He likes the machine, complains a little here and there about the primer feed and the bullet feed but won't take my $80. He loads on a lot more relaxed schedule than I do, and is willing to twiddle and tinker a bit here and there. Best $80 he has spent on guns according to him, and I suspect Uncle Don and he have a lot in common.
Myself, I run hot and heavy. I have a young family, limited reloading time and the ONLY reason I reload is to support my shooting habit. If I could afford to buy my ammo I would not reload. I absolutely NEED a press that I can walk up to and crank out a couple hundred rounds without ANY hassles at all. I absolutely NEED a press that I can yank 40 out of and be loading 45 in 3 minutes.
I had a Dillon 550B, it is dead solid reliable and that means more to me than the nearly double production rate of the Loadmaster. The Loadmaster came after the Dillon, was a gamble to up my production rate/reduce loading time. When the Loadmaster ran it was REALLY fast and made good ammo, but it would not stay running without tinkering.
The Loadmaster is 'nearly there'. If Lee ever finishes the Loadmaster they will absolutely CRUSH Dillon progressive sales. It doesn't need a lot to be 'there', but it is enough that a lot of guys have a bitter taste in their mouth when it comes up.
Sorry for the long story, just a bit of where I was and where I am coming from.
When set up RIGHT they will load a TON of ammo in a real hurry, at least as fast as a Dillon 650. What irked me, and sent it down the road, is the fact that it needs 'tuning' now and then to stay working. Running beautifully, POUNDING out the ammo at a furious clip, then WHAM all comes to a screeching halt due to primer feed problems. Twiddle and tweak, get it going again and pound out a hundred or two and WHAM, all is in the crapper again. Learning how many bullets you can have in the feeder tube, switching to a new bullet and learning how many of them will work, the powder measures just plain suck (sorry, but that is how I see it) and constant primer feed problems just took the luster out of the Loadmaster. I sold it to a friend with a 100% money back guarantee, told him EXACTLY what I thought of it and he still wanted to try it. This guy is a MASTER mechanic and a super sharp guy all around. He likes the machine, complains a little here and there about the primer feed and the bullet feed but won't take my $80. He loads on a lot more relaxed schedule than I do, and is willing to twiddle and tinker a bit here and there. Best $80 he has spent on guns according to him, and I suspect Uncle Don and he have a lot in common.
Myself, I run hot and heavy. I have a young family, limited reloading time and the ONLY reason I reload is to support my shooting habit. If I could afford to buy my ammo I would not reload. I absolutely NEED a press that I can walk up to and crank out a couple hundred rounds without ANY hassles at all. I absolutely NEED a press that I can yank 40 out of and be loading 45 in 3 minutes.
I had a Dillon 550B, it is dead solid reliable and that means more to me than the nearly double production rate of the Loadmaster. The Loadmaster came after the Dillon, was a gamble to up my production rate/reduce loading time. When the Loadmaster ran it was REALLY fast and made good ammo, but it would not stay running without tinkering.
The Loadmaster is 'nearly there'. If Lee ever finishes the Loadmaster they will absolutely CRUSH Dillon progressive sales. It doesn't need a lot to be 'there', but it is enough that a lot of guys have a bitter taste in their mouth when it comes up.
Sorry for the long story, just a bit of where I was and where I am coming from.
Thats 1000 rounds (1250 if you count the sting of blanks I made) off my loadmaster and I never stopped excpet for powder and primer refills. And that is not including the 750 .45ACP I've got loaded up for my 1918 Colt 1911.
I really don't know what you people are trying to prove.... for the cost of your blue cool aid I bought that gun..... and for the cost of a few 'quick change kits' I bought my ENTIRE setup.
The Lee Loadmaster is an outstanding value. It makes accurate bullets, in BULK.
I am doing something wrong with the .223 ammo.. I know I am. It sucks that I beat up the press and break stuff... but hey, stuff happens, I learn, and life goes on.
I'll let you know how the shoot a thon turns out.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
Rockstar,
I owned a 550 I sold to a buddy of mine because it was nothing more than a jazzed up and very overpriced turret press. My best buddy has a 650 and I've used it. It's no faster than my Hornady Lock N Load and is slower and way more expensive to change calibers.
Another buddy owns a Loadmaster. Guess what? He takes his time, sets the thing up and it runs and runs, never hangs up. Guess Uncle Don is right. That thing is fast as all get out too at a very reasonable price.
Right now, I'm considering adding a Lee classic turret press to my press lineup to load my milsurp rifle stuff. From what I'm reading and hearing (And I've been asking a lot of questions on a couple boards, plus emails and pm's.), it's pretty darn close the the Dillon 550 turret in speed and a heckuva lot less in cost. I'll likely buy one soon.
Again, I'll repeat, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but Uncle Don and Yellowlab are right. If you blue kool-aid guys can't take the heat and help fix the broken machinery, stay the heck outta the kitchen and have the manners to not take pot shots at other people's equipment. Because frankly, after comparing my Lee Classic Cast press is doing to RCBS's Rock Chucker, I'm sure the Rock chucker business ain't what it used to be. (I owned a Rock Chucker before I bought my Lee Classic cast press. Guess which one I sold after owning both and deciding I'd rather have one single stage and turret press?) Think on it, because the way things are going, Lee may very well modify the Loadmaster to the point any bonehead can load on it. If they do, Dillon's very outdated designs are going to be sucking wind.
I owned a 550 I sold to a buddy of mine because it was nothing more than a jazzed up and very overpriced turret press. My best buddy has a 650 and I've used it. It's no faster than my Hornady Lock N Load and is slower and way more expensive to change calibers.
Another buddy owns a Loadmaster. Guess what? He takes his time, sets the thing up and it runs and runs, never hangs up. Guess Uncle Don is right. That thing is fast as all get out too at a very reasonable price.
Right now, I'm considering adding a Lee classic turret press to my press lineup to load my milsurp rifle stuff. From what I'm reading and hearing (And I've been asking a lot of questions on a couple boards, plus emails and pm's.), it's pretty darn close the the Dillon 550 turret in speed and a heckuva lot less in cost. I'll likely buy one soon.
Again, I'll repeat, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but Uncle Don and Yellowlab are right. If you blue kool-aid guys can't take the heat and help fix the broken machinery, stay the heck outta the kitchen and have the manners to not take pot shots at other people's equipment. Because frankly, after comparing my Lee Classic Cast press is doing to RCBS's Rock Chucker, I'm sure the Rock chucker business ain't what it used to be. (I owned a Rock Chucker before I bought my Lee Classic cast press. Guess which one I sold after owning both and deciding I'd rather have one single stage and turret press?) Think on it, because the way things are going, Lee may very well modify the Loadmaster to the point any bonehead can load on it. If they do, Dillon's very outdated designs are going to be sucking wind.
Dave can I ask you a few things about your Hornady press without offending you too terribly? You say it's faster to do caliber conversions, can you expand on how it's faster? I cut my teeth loading on a friends Projector and the only thing I can figure out is you must save time when your changing priming systems. The lock-n-load system is very neat but it's not faster, the problem I would have with that is organization and only having two hands, but that's me (maybe you have 2 hands too but if it's a faster system for you you probably have more than 2 ). Changing the shell plate from what I remember is the same on the 650 v the Hornady. I know the Lock-n-load had a primer system revision and I don't remember much about the Projector primer system after all it was back in '95, is this where you get your faster caliber changes? I'm spoiled cause I have both the large and small primer assemblies for my 650, but my guess it's the primer seater. The little parts for the case feeder and the station 1 locater are simple enough to change, I can't see that being the advantage. Spill the beans already! Since your buddy has a 650 show him this link, it will help him save money on conversion kits by letting him buy just what parts he needs, it's a very cool utility for 650 owners.
The other question I have about the Hornady press has to do with the crimp die and the ejector spring interfering with non Hornady crimp dies. Has this been a problem for you? If so have you found a workaround other than grinding the crimp dies? I would really like a picture of a modified ejector spring for reference if somebody has one so I can share it with other Hornady owners, it is after all the machine I recommend if the 1050 or 650 are too pricey.
I like the Hornady press and if I didn't get the 650 I would have gotten the early Lock-n-load. The reason I went with the Dillon was because I liked that the Dillon did belling in the powder drop stage and I like the removable tool head design better than the individual lock-n-load thing. I know Hornady is redesigning the case activated powder drop system right now, who knows they may be adding powder drop though a belling expander, if so I wonder if Lee's patent ran out or they decided to pay royalties. That could be neat for Hornady owners, no more Lyman belling expander tricks needed if that is the change. For the record I didn't buy the Dillon because I disliked the Hornady, but more because I like the Dillon more than I like the Hornady
Dave why do you tell people not to take pop shots at other peoples equipment and then you turn right around and do just what you told everybody else not to do? Old designs usually stick around in the market place because they are good . Old designs that dominate the market place do so because they are great! If you don't think that Dillon dominates the progressive market you may be shocked to know that 98% of all USPSA competitors polled used Dillon machines (the stat is from Front Sight mag).
How are you liking the cast classic press, does it catch all the primers like it should in it's primer tube setup? I have a rock chuncker which cost me a grand total of $0 but getting primers and the muck everywhere sucks. When you had them side by side how was the effort on FL sizing a bottle neck cartage?
I don't get the whole 550 is just a turret press rant but your kidding yourself if you think a real turret press is almost as fast as a manual indexing progressive press. I have no interest in a manual indexing progressive press what so ever and have never suggested to anyone to buy one I understand that, but a single ram turret press is what it is. That being said it doesn't make a turret press a bad tool but for me I'd only be interested in one for case forming wildcats which I don't do a lot of (I only fire form a 30'06 ackley improved and it aint even my rifle, errrrr).
And Dave while I haven't helped fix the Lee priming problem the only person that has given a go at it is trickyasafox, not you or Uncle Don have taken a stab at helping either. Pot, kettle and black comes to mind ATM. Didn't think anybody would notice that did ya
). Changing the shell plate from what I remember is the same on the 650 v the Hornady. I know the Lock-n-load had a primer system revision and I don't remember much about the Projector primer system after all it was back in '95, is this where you get your faster caliber changes? I'm spoiled cause I have both the large and small primer assemblies for my 650, but my guess it's the primer seater. The little parts for the case feeder and the station 1 locater are simple enough to change, I can't see that being the advantage. Spill the beans already! Since your buddy has a 650 show him this link, it will help him save money on conversion kits by letting him buy just what parts he needs, it's a very cool utility for 650 owners.The other question I have about the Hornady press has to do with the crimp die and the ejector spring interfering with non Hornady crimp dies. Has this been a problem for you? If so have you found a workaround other than grinding the crimp dies? I would really like a picture of a modified ejector spring for reference if somebody has one so I can share it with other Hornady owners, it is after all the machine I recommend if the 1050 or 650 are too pricey.
I like the Hornady press and if I didn't get the 650 I would have gotten the early Lock-n-load. The reason I went with the Dillon was because I liked that the Dillon did belling in the powder drop stage and I like the removable tool head design better than the individual lock-n-load thing. I know Hornady is redesigning the case activated powder drop system right now, who knows they may be adding powder drop though a belling expander, if so I wonder if Lee's patent ran out or they decided to pay royalties. That could be neat for Hornady owners, no more Lyman belling expander tricks needed if that is the change. For the record I didn't buy the Dillon because I disliked the Hornady, but more because I like the Dillon more than I like the Hornady
Dave why do you tell people not to take pop shots at other peoples equipment and then you turn right around and do just what you told everybody else not to do? Old designs usually stick around in the market place because they are good
. Old designs that dominate the market place do so because they are great! If you don't think that Dillon dominates the progressive market you may be shocked to know that 98% of all USPSA competitors polled used Dillon machines (the stat is from Front Sight mag). How are you liking the cast classic press, does it catch all the primers like it should in it's primer tube setup? I have a rock chuncker which cost me a grand total of $0 but getting primers and the muck everywhere sucks. When you had them side by side how was the effort on FL sizing a bottle neck cartage?
I don't get the whole 550 is just a turret press rant but your kidding yourself if you think a real turret press is almost as fast as a manual indexing progressive press. I have no interest in a manual indexing progressive press what so ever and have never suggested to anyone to buy one I understand that, but a single ram turret press is what it is. That being said it doesn't make a turret press a bad tool but for me I'd only be interested in one for case forming wildcats which I don't do a lot of (I only fire form a 30'06 ackley improved and it aint even my rifle, errrrr).
And Dave while I haven't helped fix the Lee priming problem the only person that has given a go at it is trickyasafox, not you or Uncle Don have taken a stab at helping either. Pot, kettle and black comes to mind ATM. Didn't think anybody would notice that did ya
' 98% of all USPSA competitors polled used Dillon'
Its called 'keeping up with the jonese'.
I wonder if they get discounts like in every other sport that a manufacturer wants to get market share in.
Plus NO ONE, not after the all the cool aid they drank, can still make the claim that the ammo off a Dillon is *BETTER* than an ammo off press X. Not even Dillon makes that claim.
I'm still waiting for a video of someone actaully making the rated number of rounds off a 650 (like 700 rounds an hour?) One every 4 seconds.
Like 'Jerry' said "SHOW ME THE VIDEO!!!!!!!"
Its called 'keeping up with the jonese'.
I wonder if they get discounts like in every other sport that a manufacturer wants to get market share in.
Plus NO ONE, not after the all the cool aid they drank, can still make the claim that the ammo off a Dillon is *BETTER* than an ammo off press X. Not even Dillon makes that claim.
I'm still waiting for a video of someone actaully making the rated number of rounds off a 650 (like 700 rounds an hour?) One every 4 seconds.
Like 'Jerry' said "SHOW ME THE VIDEO!!!!!!!"
Actually I have offered - just did it without the background noise. I'm with Yellowlab on the "Show me". My offer stands - I'll send you a video of my press operating at a capability rate of 1000 rounds an hour (WITHOUT A CASEFEEDER) . You in turn practice up and then send me one showing the same thing or one that surpasses it. Even if you can, and I don't think you can - you are not going to exceed by enough to justify three or four times the price. When the casefeeder is attached, my throughput then kicks into high gear and I have a video of that too. Let's exchange, shall we?
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
stiles,
Ah, a Dillon owner that wants to see what's down the rabbit hole. Be careful, you're mind is made up, are you sure you want to be confused with facts?
"Dave can I ask you a few things about your Hornady press without offending you too terribly? You say it's faster to do caliber conversions, can you expand on how it's faster?"
You own a Dillon, so you don't need to be told how it's done. Here's a complete caliber change, including primer size change for a Hornady. This is from .45ACP to 9MM. This is moving slowly and methodically, as I'm not a hurry kind of guy. Steps 1 through 5 and 10 I would do with any press I owned, so time for them would be the same. I only own one powder measure, so I don't change it. I would only own one powder measure with a Dillon, so I wouldn't change it either. In both cases, one would have to empty the powder and clean the measure out before inserting new powder. At least that's my preferred habit, others may differ.
1. Pull out reloading manual. Check recorded load "set up" for the cartridge I want.
2. Lay out tools, shellplate, primer punch and die set, plus the empty box for the new die set. Load new caliber primers into feeding tubes.
3. Remove original caliber bins and empty into storage containers.
4. Lay out brass and bullets in AKRO bins with spares.
5. Set up powder scale to check powder weight.
6. Break shellplate locking nut loose with wrench, spin out with fingers, remove original shellplate, case retainer spring and remove original primer punch - 20 seconds - (Note: if you can't do this in this time, you're either deliberately going slower than me, because I'm a turtle or you're a mechanical klutz.)
7. Install next primer punch, place shellplate on sub plate, install locking nut and flip case retaining spring into postion - 20 seconds.
8. Swap out the die set, twist and click out, then twist and click in - 15 seconds. (Note: If one had additional powder measures set up for each caliber, one could simply swap it out the same as the dies. Add one or two more seconds to time totals. BTW, I'm being conservative with the time changeover takes, not exaggerating.)
9. Swap powder measure insert for small pistol insert and adjust setting using note from Loading Notebook - 10 seconds.
10. Load powder, then check powder dump setting by dumping three powder dumps and measuring fourth. Make any minor adjustment needed. (Note: I did this when I owned my Dillon as well, so time would be about the same.)
11. Swap primer feeder tube - pull out original tube and drop in new tube. 2 seconds.
12. Install primers from loading tube into feeding tube - 2 seconds.
Well, let's see, if my math is right, that adds up to about 69 seconds or 1 minute, 9 seconds. Of course, I coulda missed a second or two. hmmm....
"I cut my teeth loading on a friends Projector and the only thing I can figure out is you must save time when your changing priming systems."
It's nice you "cut your teeth" on a Projector, but a Projector isn't a Lock N Load. It looks similar, but it definately isn't a Lock N Load. Those Lock and Load bushings ARE GENUINELY faster. I KNOW, because I OWNED a Dillon, remember?
"The lock-n-load system is very neat but it's not faster, the problem I would have with that is organization and only having two hands, but that's me (maybe you have 2 hands too but if it's a faster system for you you probably have more than 2 )." Changing the shell plate from what I remember is the same on the 650 v the Hornady."
I'm not going to tell you that you're a mechanical klutz. Again, a Projector isn't a Lock N Load. It's a very different press, though it looks the same.
"I know the Lock-n-load had a primer system revision and I don't remember much about the Projector primer system after all it was back in '95, is this where you get your faster caliber changes?"
Dunno, you were the one that "cut your teeth" on the Projector, not I.
"I'm spoiled cause I have both the large and small primer assemblies for my 650, but my guess it's the primer seater."
You mean you have to change out an "assembly" to change between large and small primers? Wow, I just gotta change a cheap assed aluminum tube that isn't even locked down to anything. I just pull it out and drop another one in it's place.
"The little parts for the case feeder and the station 1 locater are simple enough to change, I can't see that being the advantage."
What little parts for the case feeder? What station 1 locator parts?
"Spill the beans already!"
Nope, that'd make a damn mess. I like things neat and orderly.
"Since your buddy has a 650 show him this link, it will help him save money on conversion kits by letting him buy just what parts he needs, it's a very cool utility for 650 owners."
Oh...that's how you save money with Dillon caliber changes. Ya gotta cut corners, I get it now. I'll check the link out and see what it costs that way and I'll pass the link onto my buddy. Yes, I'm busting your balls, just like I bust his.
To not be an total horse's rear, he busted my balls during the Hornady upgrades to the shellplates and primer systems. But now they're done and past history, he's hating it.I got all my parts free, just like he does with his Dillon, except with mine, most stuff is steel or aluminum and no "small" parts.
I should note with the Hornady, anything you buy related to a caliber change is made of steel. Once you buy the shellplate #1 (.45ACP, 30.06 and similar bases) and the one for .223, you cover most of the calibers. I only needed 7 total to cover most all the calibers I could ever dream of load. Bushings coming cheap in the ten pack. I guess you could add a powder measure or two, which ain't cheap.
"The other question I have about the Hornady press has to do with the crimp die and the ejector spring interfering with non Hornady crimp dies. Has this been a problem for you?"
My 9MM die set is Lee and I use the FCD unmodified, if that's what you're asking.
"If so have you found a workaround other than grinding the crimp dies?
Yes, takes a couple of minutes to do. Just bend a "U-shaped" bend in the ejector spring towards the rear of the press. Bend in two places to form the "U." 1. Bend once close to where the ejector spring wire is located and 2. bend close near where the ejector spring touches has the bend that goes into it's retainer above the shellplate. Measure the die intrusion into the wire and use this distance and add a couple thousandths to get your bend radius. You can use appropriate sized drill rod (It's nice and stiff.) to make the bend radius. When you're done, polish the ejector spring rod with sandpaper, then green scrubby pad to insure smooth ejection.
"I would really like a picture of a modified ejector spring for reference if somebody has one so I can share it with other Hornady owners, it is after all the machine I recommend if the 1050 or 650 are too pricey."
I apologize, but I suck at posting pictures on the internet. I suspect the description above should be adequate for someone that owns the press. It's a simple mod and Hornady could be making these springs like this, but they're being turds and not helping Lee. Maybe because it's the competition. Hornady crimp dies clear. Not sure about Dillon dies, they may also clear.
"I like the Hornady press and if I didn't get the 650 I would have gotten the early Lock-n-load. The reason I went with the Dillon was because I liked that the Dillon did belling in the powder drop stage and I like the removable tool head design better than the individual lock-n-load thing."
A personal preference thing. I know, having owned a 550, I would never advise anyone to get a 550 over the Hornady. I also would concur it's 6 one way, half a dozen the other related to satisfaction with the Lock N Load vs. the Dillon 650.
"I know Hornady is redesigning the case activated powder drop system right now, who knows they may be adding powder drop though a belling expander, if so I wonder if Lee's patent ran out or they decided to pay royalties."
The new case activated powder drop is out the middle of this month. MidwayUSA is already displaying prices ($45.99) for it. It fits the original Lock N Load powder measure, has a slightly different operating mechanism and has belling expander inserts one can buy ($7.99 each) in most all popular pistol calibers. I Dunno about the Lee Patent, is that way Dillon presses are so expensive? Having to pay royalties to Lee for using so many Lee design patents?
"That could be neat for Hornady owners, no more Lyman belling expander tricks needed if that is the change."
Tricks? That was a cheap (The price of one Lyman die set.) and easy mod. And I know Dillon owners mod their presses, because my buddies that own Dillons have modified their presses. Is it only a modification if it's on a Dillon press and it's a "trick" if it's done on "non-blue" presses?
"For the record I didn't buy the Dillon because I disliked the Hornady, but more because I like the Dillon more than I like the Hornady."
It's ok, we know you drank the blue kool-aid and are comforted by the soothing blue color of the press any time you realize you don't have that other milsurp you wanted because you spent the money on the Dillon.
"Dave why do you tell people not to take pop shots at other peoples equipment and then you turn right around and do just what you told everybody else not to do? Old designs usually stick around in the market place because they are good . Old designs that dominate the market place do so because they are great!"
I'm not taking pot shots. I said what I know to the the truth about those presses. I didn't say anything I think is negative about Dillon presses. Facts aren't negative, they're just facts and unlike you blue kool-aid drinkers, I didn't tell him to solve his problems by throwing money at it. (aka give more money to Mike Dillon to support his machine gun habit.) And Dillon designs have been good ones, but they are getting dated and could be improved. Both my pals think their powder measures leave something to be desired and bitch about them. Old designs are great, until they get surpassed by new, better, more efficient to manufacture and less expensive designs.
"If you don't think that Dillon dominates the progressive market you may be shocked to know that 98% of all USPSA competitors polled used Dillon machines (the stat is from Front Sight mag)."
Big whoops. This same crowd (I know, I'm a gunsmith and I work on their guns.) pisses off more money on gadjet guns trying to win than one can shake a stick at. Most of them don't. Win, that is. I see a lot of guys paying high prices for various guns, then they end up bringing them to me to fix some issue or another. I see this REGULARLY. I also know of other firearms that are as good and most cases way better than the ones they spend their money on, but the snob factor won't let them buy the less expensive gun, because they wanna feel "secure" emotionally in their purchase and get oohs and ahhs at the range.
"How are you liking the cast classic press, does it catch all the primers like it should in it's primer tube setup?"
It's great - has a hole right down the middle of the ram and a tube that you can use to feed the spend primers through a hole in your bench to a trash can or bucket below.
"I have a rock chuncker which cost me a grand total of $0 but getting primers and the muck everywhere sucks."
Had a used one too, got rid of it after using it and the LEE side by side for a few months. A perfect example of a great old design being eclipsed by a new , more efficient design.
"When you had them side by side how was the effort on FL sizing a bottle neck cartage?"
The Lee linkage is very similar to the RCBS Junior press linkage and is very efficient. It's hard to say, but the Lee may have even been less effort than the RCBS.
"I don't get the whole 550 is just a turret press rant but your kidding yourself if you think a real turret press is almost as fast as a manual indexing progressive press.
If it isn't auto indexing, have the capability for case activated powder dumps, an automated powder feed, auto eject and the ability to add a case feeder, I don't consider it a progressive press, because basically, it isn't one. If you wanna fully understand my thinking, look at what the 550 is based on - the AT500 TURRET press. So basically, it's a "jazzed up" turret press. That's reality.
""I have no interest in a manual indexing progressive press what so ever and have never suggested to anyone to buy one I understand that, but a single ram turret press is what it is."
I assume you're talking about the LEE classic cast turret press. But you should realize that press has an auto indexing turret. And wether your auto index the turret or the shellplate, the automation is there. The Lee also has automatic powder dump and a fairly quick manually operated primer feed system. I would guess it's probably capable of 300 rounds per hour if the guy works at it a little bit. Most 550 owner really aren't doing any better speed wise and the LEE classic turret press fully set up is less than 200 bucks, including dies. Hell, at that price difference, the two presses shouldn't even be comparable or close to comparable output wise. Another example of new designs being more price efficient. If I were looking at the 550 because I didn't need high output, I'd look hard at the Lee classic cast turret as well and spend that extra money on loading components.
"That being said it doesn't make a turret press a bad tool but for me I'd only be interested in one for case forming wildcats which I don't do a lot of (I only fire form a 30'06 ackley improved and it aint even my rifle, errrrr)."
Hmm, you might be a candidate for the LEE for such purposes, it's a cast iron press with an excellent linkage design, the same one that's on the classic cast single stage and has the nice spent primer dispense as well. I'm buying one for loading milsurp rifle.
"And Dave while I haven't helped fix the Lee priming problem the only person that has given a go at it is trickyasafox, not you or Uncle Don have taken a stab at helping either. Pot, kettle and black comes to mind ATM. Didn't think anybody would notice that did ya"
No, I couldn't help him or I would have. But I did defend him and his press, along with offering him encouragement, which is what YOU DILLON KOOL-AID DRINKERS DID NOT DO, which is WHY I posted. You guys just attacked his press and did the "buy dillon" kool-aid rant.
One last point and this is the bottom line. You Dillon owners need to learn to RESPECT the choices of others if they didn't choice Dillon.
Ah, a Dillon owner that wants to see what's down the rabbit hole. Be careful, you're mind is made up, are you sure you want to be confused with facts?
"Dave can I ask you a few things about your Hornady press without offending you too terribly? You say it's faster to do caliber conversions, can you expand on how it's faster?"
You own a Dillon, so you don't need to be told how it's done. Here's a complete caliber change, including primer size change for a Hornady. This is from .45ACP to 9MM. This is moving slowly and methodically, as I'm not a hurry kind of guy. Steps 1 through 5 and 10 I would do with any press I owned, so time for them would be the same. I only own one powder measure, so I don't change it. I would only own one powder measure with a Dillon, so I wouldn't change it either. In both cases, one would have to empty the powder and clean the measure out before inserting new powder. At least that's my preferred habit, others may differ.
1. Pull out reloading manual. Check recorded load "set up" for the cartridge I want.
2. Lay out tools, shellplate, primer punch and die set, plus the empty box for the new die set. Load new caliber primers into feeding tubes.
3. Remove original caliber bins and empty into storage containers.
4. Lay out brass and bullets in AKRO bins with spares.
5. Set up powder scale to check powder weight.
6. Break shellplate locking nut loose with wrench, spin out with fingers, remove original shellplate, case retainer spring and remove original primer punch - 20 seconds - (Note: if you can't do this in this time, you're either deliberately going slower than me, because I'm a turtle or you're a mechanical klutz.)
7. Install next primer punch, place shellplate on sub plate, install locking nut and flip case retaining spring into postion - 20 seconds.
8. Swap out the die set, twist and click out, then twist and click in - 15 seconds. (Note: If one had additional powder measures set up for each caliber, one could simply swap it out the same as the dies. Add one or two more seconds to time totals. BTW, I'm being conservative with the time changeover takes, not exaggerating.)
9. Swap powder measure insert for small pistol insert and adjust setting using note from Loading Notebook - 10 seconds.
10. Load powder, then check powder dump setting by dumping three powder dumps and measuring fourth. Make any minor adjustment needed. (Note: I did this when I owned my Dillon as well, so time would be about the same.)
11. Swap primer feeder tube - pull out original tube and drop in new tube. 2 seconds.
12. Install primers from loading tube into feeding tube - 2 seconds.
Well, let's see, if my math is right, that adds up to about 69 seconds or 1 minute, 9 seconds. Of course, I coulda missed a second or two. hmmm....
"I cut my teeth loading on a friends Projector and the only thing I can figure out is you must save time when your changing priming systems."
It's nice you "cut your teeth" on a Projector, but a Projector isn't a Lock N Load. It looks similar, but it definately isn't a Lock N Load. Those Lock and Load bushings ARE GENUINELY faster. I KNOW, because I OWNED a Dillon, remember?
"The lock-n-load system is very neat but it's not faster, the problem I would have with that is organization and only having two hands, but that's me (maybe you have 2 hands too but if it's a faster system for you you probably have more than 2 )." Changing the shell plate from what I remember is the same on the 650 v the Hornady."
I'm not going to tell you that you're a mechanical klutz. Again, a Projector isn't a Lock N Load. It's a very different press, though it looks the same.
"I know the Lock-n-load had a primer system revision and I don't remember much about the Projector primer system after all it was back in '95, is this where you get your faster caliber changes?"
Dunno, you were the one that "cut your teeth" on the Projector, not I.
"I'm spoiled cause I have both the large and small primer assemblies for my 650, but my guess it's the primer seater."
You mean you have to change out an "assembly" to change between large and small primers? Wow, I just gotta change a cheap assed aluminum tube that isn't even locked down to anything. I just pull it out and drop another one in it's place.
"The little parts for the case feeder and the station 1 locater are simple enough to change, I can't see that being the advantage."
What little parts for the case feeder? What station 1 locator parts?
"Spill the beans already!"
Nope, that'd make a damn mess. I like things neat and orderly.
"Since your buddy has a 650 show him this link, it will help him save money on conversion kits by letting him buy just what parts he needs, it's a very cool utility for 650 owners."
Oh...that's how you save money with Dillon caliber changes. Ya gotta cut corners, I get it now. I'll check the link out and see what it costs that way and I'll pass the link onto my buddy. Yes, I'm busting your balls, just like I bust his.
To not be an total horse's rear, he busted my balls during the Hornady upgrades to the shellplates and primer systems. But now they're done and past history, he's hating it.
I got all my parts free, just like he does with his Dillon, except with mine, most stuff is steel or aluminum and no "small" parts.I should note with the Hornady, anything you buy related to a caliber change is made of steel. Once you buy the shellplate #1 (.45ACP, 30.06 and similar bases) and the one for .223, you cover most of the calibers. I only needed 7 total to cover most all the calibers I could ever dream of load. Bushings coming cheap in the ten pack. I guess you could add a powder measure or two, which ain't cheap.
"The other question I have about the Hornady press has to do with the crimp die and the ejector spring interfering with non Hornady crimp dies. Has this been a problem for you?"
My 9MM die set is Lee and I use the FCD unmodified, if that's what you're asking.
"If so have you found a workaround other than grinding the crimp dies?
Yes, takes a couple of minutes to do. Just bend a "U-shaped" bend in the ejector spring towards the rear of the press. Bend in two places to form the "U." 1. Bend once close to where the ejector spring wire is located and 2. bend close near where the ejector spring touches has the bend that goes into it's retainer above the shellplate. Measure the die intrusion into the wire and use this distance and add a couple thousandths to get your bend radius. You can use appropriate sized drill rod (It's nice and stiff.) to make the bend radius. When you're done, polish the ejector spring rod with sandpaper, then green scrubby pad to insure smooth ejection.
"I would really like a picture of a modified ejector spring for reference if somebody has one so I can share it with other Hornady owners, it is after all the machine I recommend if the 1050 or 650 are too pricey."
I apologize, but I suck at posting pictures on the internet. I suspect the description above should be adequate for someone that owns the press. It's a simple mod and Hornady could be making these springs like this, but they're being turds and not helping Lee. Maybe because it's the competition. Hornady crimp dies clear. Not sure about Dillon dies, they may also clear.
"I like the Hornady press and if I didn't get the 650 I would have gotten the early Lock-n-load. The reason I went with the Dillon was because I liked that the Dillon did belling in the powder drop stage and I like the removable tool head design better than the individual lock-n-load thing."
A personal preference thing. I know, having owned a 550, I would never advise anyone to get a 550 over the Hornady. I also would concur it's 6 one way, half a dozen the other related to satisfaction with the Lock N Load vs. the Dillon 650.
"I know Hornady is redesigning the case activated powder drop system right now, who knows they may be adding powder drop though a belling expander, if so I wonder if Lee's patent ran out or they decided to pay royalties."
The new case activated powder drop is out the middle of this month. MidwayUSA is already displaying prices ($45.99) for it. It fits the original Lock N Load powder measure, has a slightly different operating mechanism and has belling expander inserts one can buy ($7.99 each) in most all popular pistol calibers. I Dunno about the Lee Patent, is that way Dillon presses are so expensive? Having to pay royalties to Lee for using so many Lee design patents?
"That could be neat for Hornady owners, no more Lyman belling expander tricks needed if that is the change."
Tricks? That was a cheap (The price of one Lyman die set.) and easy mod. And I know Dillon owners mod their presses, because my buddies that own Dillons have modified their presses. Is it only a modification if it's on a Dillon press and it's a "trick" if it's done on "non-blue" presses?
"For the record I didn't buy the Dillon because I disliked the Hornady, but more because I like the Dillon more than I like the Hornady."
It's ok, we know you drank the blue kool-aid and are comforted by the soothing blue color of the press any time you realize you don't have that other milsurp you wanted because you spent the money on the Dillon.
"Dave why do you tell people not to take pop shots at other peoples equipment and then you turn right around and do just what you told everybody else not to do? Old designs usually stick around in the market place because they are good . Old designs that dominate the market place do so because they are great!"
I'm not taking pot shots. I said what I know to the the truth about those presses. I didn't say anything I think is negative about Dillon presses. Facts aren't negative, they're just facts and unlike you blue kool-aid drinkers, I didn't tell him to solve his problems by throwing money at it. (aka give more money to Mike Dillon to support his machine gun habit.) And Dillon designs have been good ones, but they are getting dated and could be improved. Both my pals think their powder measures leave something to be desired and bitch about them. Old designs are great, until they get surpassed by new, better, more efficient to manufacture and less expensive designs.
"If you don't think that Dillon dominates the progressive market you may be shocked to know that 98% of all USPSA competitors polled used Dillon machines (the stat is from Front Sight mag)."
Big whoops. This same crowd (I know, I'm a gunsmith and I work on their guns.) pisses off more money on gadjet guns trying to win than one can shake a stick at. Most of them don't. Win, that is. I see a lot of guys paying high prices for various guns, then they end up bringing them to me to fix some issue or another. I see this REGULARLY. I also know of other firearms that are as good and most cases way better than the ones they spend their money on, but the snob factor won't let them buy the less expensive gun, because they wanna feel "secure" emotionally in their purchase and get oohs and ahhs at the range.
"How are you liking the cast classic press, does it catch all the primers like it should in it's primer tube setup?"
It's great - has a hole right down the middle of the ram and a tube that you can use to feed the spend primers through a hole in your bench to a trash can or bucket below.
"I have a rock chuncker which cost me a grand total of $0 but getting primers and the muck everywhere sucks."
Had a used one too, got rid of it after using it and the LEE side by side for a few months. A perfect example of a great old design being eclipsed by a new , more efficient design.
"When you had them side by side how was the effort on FL sizing a bottle neck cartage?"
The Lee linkage is very similar to the RCBS Junior press linkage and is very efficient. It's hard to say, but the Lee may have even been less effort than the RCBS.
"I don't get the whole 550 is just a turret press rant but your kidding yourself if you think a real turret press is almost as fast as a manual indexing progressive press.
If it isn't auto indexing, have the capability for case activated powder dumps, an automated powder feed, auto eject and the ability to add a case feeder, I don't consider it a progressive press, because basically, it isn't one. If you wanna fully understand my thinking, look at what the 550 is based on - the AT500 TURRET press. So basically, it's a "jazzed up" turret press. That's reality.
""I have no interest in a manual indexing progressive press what so ever and have never suggested to anyone to buy one I understand that, but a single ram turret press is what it is."
I assume you're talking about the LEE classic cast turret press. But you should realize that press has an auto indexing turret. And wether your auto index the turret or the shellplate, the automation is there. The Lee also has automatic powder dump and a fairly quick manually operated primer feed system. I would guess it's probably capable of 300 rounds per hour if the guy works at it a little bit. Most 550 owner really aren't doing any better speed wise and the LEE classic turret press fully set up is less than 200 bucks, including dies. Hell, at that price difference, the two presses shouldn't even be comparable or close to comparable output wise. Another example of new designs being more price efficient. If I were looking at the 550 because I didn't need high output, I'd look hard at the Lee classic cast turret as well and spend that extra money on loading components.
"That being said it doesn't make a turret press a bad tool but for me I'd only be interested in one for case forming wildcats which I don't do a lot of (I only fire form a 30'06 ackley improved and it aint even my rifle, errrrr)."
Hmm, you might be a candidate for the LEE for such purposes, it's a cast iron press with an excellent linkage design, the same one that's on the classic cast single stage and has the nice spent primer dispense as well. I'm buying one for loading milsurp rifle.
"And Dave while I haven't helped fix the Lee priming problem the only person that has given a go at it is trickyasafox, not you or Uncle Don have taken a stab at helping either. Pot, kettle and black comes to mind ATM. Didn't think anybody would notice that did ya"
No, I couldn't help him or I would have. But I did defend him and his press, along with offering him encouragement, which is what YOU DILLON KOOL-AID DRINKERS DID NOT DO, which is WHY I posted. You guys just attacked his press and did the "buy dillon" kool-aid rant.
One last point and this is the bottom line. You Dillon owners need to learn to RESPECT the choices of others if they didn't choice Dillon.
For the guys that are saying the Dillon 550 is just a glorified turret press: BALDERDASH! A completed round with every stroke of the handle is not a turret press. No way will I ever believe a turret is as fast as a 550. The Dillon 550 CAN be used though, in turret mode if desired. You're talking apples and oranges.
Bronson7
Bronson7
trickyasafox
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I have a dream.. . .a dream that someday loaders will unite under one common goal, a dream where blue and red loaders stand side by side. I dream of equality. . . .
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