I've been using my Beeman P-3 for about a year and am now desirous of a companion piece for my basement practice. Around the time I got the P-3, I was thinking my next air gun would be a Beeman R-9 rifle. I think they were running about $350 and the reviews were excellent across the board. Now that the time's arrived, I'm more certain that the rifle I get will really only be used for at-home fun and fundamentals practice. No varmint control is necessary, and anywhere nearby I could hunt with an air gun, I could just as easily (and legally) use a .22. So if I don't need 1000+ fps, might get more (late-night) use out of something quieter, but still want a solidly built "domestic trainer," what should I be looking at?
Another air rifle question.
- Thread starter ed dixon
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Dave Markowitz
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A Beeman R7 looks like it would fit the bill for you. E.g.:
http://www.airgunexpress.com/beemanr7airrifle1107+.htm
http://www.airgunexpress.com/beemanr7airrifle1107+.htm
Gotta agree with Frodo - the R7 is a really class act. I bought one for my son while I was to use the highly acclaimed FWB 127, and I liked the R7 so much more that I sold the FWB! It's lightweight, balances well, has a nice trigger, and is incredibly accurate. It's reasonably quiet, though all spring airguns have a distinctive sound. I mounted a 4X Simmons with adjustable objective on a B-Square adjustable mount. (If you use a scope, need the adjustable mount - or Beeman's "barrel angle" option - due to the tilt of the barrel in lockup mode.) I actually prefer the Beeman (Williams) 5D receiver sights to the scope and am thinking about swapping back.
Oh, the R7 is still my son's, but I've made him an offer he can't refuse...
Jaywalker
Oh, the R7 is still my son's, but I've made him an offer he can't refuse...
Jaywalker
MM: I read our Australian brother's review of the 631 and all the compensatory work he did on it. I'm not nearly as handy as he is. And this is from the new father of a CZ 550 (.270 Win.) and the expectant parent of a 452 .22. So while the price and the name are more than right, I'm hesitant. Do you have one?
John and Jay: The R-7 is looking tempting. I've seen the mv is around 700 fps and may not dismay the neighbors so much. The size is adequate. Now if it just wasn't advertised as a kid's/woman's perfect gun. I'm thinkin' hard on it though and, Dave, thanks for starting that torture.
Pattern noticed here: Gun I might buy next is always superceded by gun I really should buy next. Life is funny. Ed
John and Jay: The R-7 is looking tempting. I've seen the mv is around 700 fps and may not dismay the neighbors so much. The size is adequate. Now if it just wasn't advertised as a kid's/woman's perfect gun. I'm thinkin' hard on it though and, Dave, thanks for starting that torture.
Pattern noticed here: Gun I might buy next is always superceded by gun I really should buy next. Life is funny. Ed
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Actually, as is true of the advertising claims of most air rifles, you'll be lucky to get 700fps from a typical R7 except with the very lightest pellets.
Ellie shoots 645fps with the 7.9 grain Crosman Premier pellets and that's toward the top end of R7 performance. A typical R7 gives a pretty solid 600fps with pellets of usable weight (as opposed to the super lightweight pellets designed so that advertisers could back up their advertising claims if necessary
.)
They are affectionately known on at least one of the airgun forums as "Girly guns" and many of the guys give their R7 a girl's name as a result (and as part of the running joke). They are very accurate, easy to shoot and cock and are very quiet.
I mostly shoot Ellie in the house, and unless I warn Lisa, she can be in the front of the house (I shoot in the back part of the house) and still be totally unaware that I've been shooting.
If they have a flaw, it's that they are light. I put a solid steel muzzle "brake" on Ellie to make her a little more stable. Now the muzzle doesn't have the same tendency to swing around even though the added weight was only a few ounces.
Get one, you'll like it.
John
One more thing--the advertising about being perfect for women and kids relates to the weight and cocking effort. The stock length is designed for adults. For comparison, the length of pull is slightly longer than on a Remington 870 shotgun.
Ellie shoots 645fps with the 7.9 grain Crosman Premier pellets and that's toward the top end of R7 performance. A typical R7 gives a pretty solid 600fps with pellets of usable weight (as opposed to the super lightweight pellets designed so that advertisers could back up their advertising claims if necessary
.)They are affectionately known on at least one of the airgun forums as "Girly guns" and many of the guys give their R7 a girl's name as a result (and as part of the running joke). They are very accurate, easy to shoot and cock and are very quiet.
I mostly shoot Ellie in the house, and unless I warn Lisa, she can be in the front of the house (I shoot in the back part of the house) and still be totally unaware that I've been shooting.
If they have a flaw, it's that they are light. I put a solid steel muzzle "brake" on Ellie to make her a little more stable. Now the muzzle doesn't have the same tendency to swing around even though the added weight was only a few ounces.
Get one, you'll like it.
John
One more thing--the advertising about being perfect for women and kids relates to the weight and cocking effort. The stock length is designed for adults. For comparison, the length of pull is slightly longer than on a Remington 870 shotgun.
My R7's in .20 cal, and while it's advertised at 600 fps, I doubt that figure also. Nonetheless, I know for a fact that it will drop a crow at 35 yards. (Yes, I know that's supposed to be too far for this round, but apparently the conventional wisdom is mistaken, given the zero loss rate.) Also, the .20 has a really interesting phenomenon that I have not found with .177 cal rounds; there's a really audible "thwack" when it hits targets or whatever. it's easy to determine whether there was a hit or a miss.
I also concur with JohnKSA, that the stock is adult size. I like the light weight, though, and haven't added anything to change the balance.
Jaywalker
I also concur with JohnKSA, that the stock is adult size. I like the light weight, though, and haven't added anything to change the balance.
Jaywalker
Springers are hard on scopes. The R7 is probably not as bad as many but I'm not interested in trying to figure out which scope won't go Tango Uniform, nor in trying to learn to mount them so they don't slide around in the mounts.
Anyway, when I have money, I prefer to spend it on guns or ammo, not scopes. So, nearly all my guns have iron sights.
Ellie is equipped with a Williams Receiver sight which I have modified slightly.
My .20 cal R1 is similarly equipped, although it has a nicer front sight than Ellie. I believe the newer R7 rifles have an R1 front sight.
Weihrauch (the German maker of the R7, R1 and R9) makes a neat aperture sight that fits on the integral scope rail. Unfortunately it's hard to find in the states and runs about $100 if you manage to locate one.
Anyway, when I have money, I prefer to spend it on guns or ammo, not scopes. So, nearly all my guns have iron sights.
Ellie is equipped with a Williams Receiver sight which I have modified slightly.
My .20 cal R1 is similarly equipped, although it has a nicer front sight than Ellie. I believe the newer R7 rifles have an R1 front sight.
Weihrauch (the German maker of the R7, R1 and R9) makes a neat aperture sight that fits on the integral scope rail. Unfortunately it's hard to find in the states and runs about $100 if you manage to locate one.
Spring-powered airguns recoil in the opposite direction from firearms. Thus, a firearm-only scope is braced in the wrong direction for airgun recoil, and will likely be destroyed very quickly. I don't believe it's particularly difficult or expensive to brace for airgun recoil, as there are some good scopes available for little money - I paid $75, IIRC, for a Simmons 4X with an adjustable objective, and I'm happy with it. It's just that I prefer receiver sights on the R7.
Jaywalker
Jaywalker
You'll want to get a dedicated air rifle scope. Springers recoil in both directions (first backwards as the spring starts moving, then forward with the inertia of the spring as it stops). They actually have a little jolt before the pellet leaves the barrel which can make them difficult to master. I actually shoot mine better free hand most of the time, but if you have a solid rest (and rest at the same point of the gun everytime) you can also get amazing accuracy.
I have a gamo 220, and mounted a scope on it for a while. It has a steel scope stop which you should probably look into. It clamps onto the dovetail behind the scope rings and prevents the scope from walking backwards.
Personally I prefer iron sights. I just seem to shoot them better, especially at air rifle distances. I do a much better job adusting aim for distance with iron sights. Starlings within 25 yards are usually MINE
I have a gamo 220, and mounted a scope on it for a while. It has a steel scope stop which you should probably look into. It clamps onto the dovetail behind the scope rings and prevents the scope from walking backwards.
Personally I prefer iron sights. I just seem to shoot them better, especially at air rifle distances. I do a much better job adusting aim for distance with iron sights. Starlings within 25 yards are usually MINE
Prof
Member
My older eyes don't do too good with iron sights anymore so I have scopes on all my rifles - centerfire and air. My R-7 sports a Bushnell 4-12X and a Beeman one piece mount. The airgun mounts have a stud which protrudes from the bottom and fits into a recessed area in the rifle's receiver. That prevents scope movement. With a scope an air rifle like the R-7 is eerily accurate! Go here for any other info you may need on air guns:
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/79537
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/79537
As a minor hijack question
Seems to me that when it comes to varmint control, particularly birds, wouldn't it be important to have a pellet that exceeds the speed of sound, so that the bullet hits the target before it has time to fly off or run, or if not in excess of the speed of sound, as close thereto as possible, minimizing the potential reaction/escape time of the target, esp. given the fairly loud report at airgun ranges of spring piston rifles. This is my homegrown theory, based on my many years of good success with RWS model 45 and 34, both of which advertise 900 - 1000 fps with .177 pellets - true, not quite the speed of sound, but significantly closer to it than 500-700 fps pellets. But for all I know, not having seriously tried to nail pests with the lower vel rifles, the theory could be all wet. IIRC, the speed of sound is about 1,100 fps. Also, can anyone compare the Beeman R7 with the RWS 48/52, or 54, in the areas of accuracy, handiness/shootability, and power? Thanks.
Seems to me that when it comes to varmint control, particularly birds, wouldn't it be important to have a pellet that exceeds the speed of sound, so that the bullet hits the target before it has time to fly off or run, or if not in excess of the speed of sound, as close thereto as possible, minimizing the potential reaction/escape time of the target, esp. given the fairly loud report at airgun ranges of spring piston rifles. This is my homegrown theory, based on my many years of good success with RWS model 45 and 34, both of which advertise 900 - 1000 fps with .177 pellets - true, not quite the speed of sound, but significantly closer to it than 500-700 fps pellets. But for all I know, not having seriously tried to nail pests with the lower vel rifles, the theory could be all wet. IIRC, the speed of sound is about 1,100 fps. Also, can anyone compare the Beeman R7 with the RWS 48/52, or 54, in the areas of accuracy, handiness/shootability, and power? Thanks.
Interesting thought on the birds Futo
I have definitely zapped many times more with my gamo (.177, 1000fps advertised) but its also the only gun I've tried on starlings that I can consistently shoot half inch or smaller groups at 50ft with
Suppose its a little bit of both.
I have definitely zapped many times more with my gamo (.177, 1000fps advertised) but its also the only gun I've tried on starlings that I can consistently shoot half inch or smaller groups at 50ft with
Suppose its a little bit of both.
Futo,
I believe you'd need to consider reaction time as well. Assuming an average of 500 fps pellet over 100 feet (33 yards is a long shot), the pellet gets there in 0.20 seconds, and the sound in .09 seconds, leaving a reaction time of 0.11 seconds to recognize the danger and clear the area. I think that's more a theoretical possibility than a real one.
Jaywalker
I believe you'd need to consider reaction time as well. Assuming an average of 500 fps pellet over 100 feet (33 yards is a long shot), the pellet gets there in 0.20 seconds, and the sound in .09 seconds, leaving a reaction time of 0.11 seconds to recognize the danger and clear the area. I think that's more a theoretical possibility than a real one.
Jaywalker
Jaywalker, you may be right. That's one-tenth of one second for the critter to hear the sound, connect it with danger, send the signal from the brain to the muscles to evade, and evade. Prolly a non-issue after all...hmmm. Didn't run the numbers - thanks.
Sorry, I got tied up in the numbers and neglected to comment on your question regarding mounts.
If you add any sights - receiver or scope - you'll have them back up on your receiver unless you take precautions. There are shallow holes in the top of the receiver that acccept studs on the proper mounts - this combination prevents rearward slide of the scope mount. You'll need a separate stop of some sort for receiver sights, and you place your sight in from of it. Sorry I can't recall the proper terminology - it's been 10 years since I bought something for it. They sell those, too.
I bought the $35 receiver sight with the rifle and mounted it myself, without the stop. (Mistake. It walked back until it used the safety as a stop, rendering the safety unusable.) You can do this pretty cheaply and add the mounts and scope later if you want to. The people who sell you the rifle probably have the stops, too, and they can't be too expensive - $5 or $10, I'm guessing. One thing for appearance might be a piece to fill the holes that appear when you remove the rear open sight on the barrel - I never did, but just haven't got around to it yet. Maybe in anther 10 years.
Envision the geometry if the break barrel doesn't point directly in line with the receiver. No problem with the sights mounted on the barrel, and they are pretty good open sights. If they're on the receiver, you have a different issue. Most barrels point slightly down. I suspect that's so you can crank the sights up to zero with the point of impact. If the barrels were to point up, you'd soon run out of corrections down to zero it. The next Beeman I buy will have the "barrel angle" option (a few extra dollars), because I'll definitely be using sights on the receiver, peep or scope. That being said, my Williams 5D sights made for Beeman are reasonable quality and had all of the "up" correction I needed.
For the Simmons Air Rifle scope with Adjustable Objective (good quality, I think), I went with an adjustable scope mount from B-Square. With it, I could spin the rear up to compensate for the down barrel without excessive cranking in clicks of adjustment. The rear part also had a stop that fit the depression in the reciever, so it's on there solid.
One other thing. The grooves in the receiver are 11 millimeter, rather than the standard American standard 3/8-inch, so make sure you get the right size mount or sight. (The grooves are more different than just the width - their angles are different, too.) No big deal, just be sure you get the right ones for your rifle.
Jaywalker
If you add any sights - receiver or scope - you'll have them back up on your receiver unless you take precautions. There are shallow holes in the top of the receiver that acccept studs on the proper mounts - this combination prevents rearward slide of the scope mount. You'll need a separate stop of some sort for receiver sights, and you place your sight in from of it. Sorry I can't recall the proper terminology - it's been 10 years since I bought something for it. They sell those, too.
I bought the $35 receiver sight with the rifle and mounted it myself, without the stop. (Mistake. It walked back until it used the safety as a stop, rendering the safety unusable.) You can do this pretty cheaply and add the mounts and scope later if you want to. The people who sell you the rifle probably have the stops, too, and they can't be too expensive - $5 or $10, I'm guessing. One thing for appearance might be a piece to fill the holes that appear when you remove the rear open sight on the barrel - I never did, but just haven't got around to it yet. Maybe in anther 10 years.
Envision the geometry if the break barrel doesn't point directly in line with the receiver. No problem with the sights mounted on the barrel, and they are pretty good open sights. If they're on the receiver, you have a different issue. Most barrels point slightly down. I suspect that's so you can crank the sights up to zero with the point of impact. If the barrels were to point up, you'd soon run out of corrections down to zero it. The next Beeman I buy will have the "barrel angle" option (a few extra dollars), because I'll definitely be using sights on the receiver, peep or scope. That being said, my Williams 5D sights made for Beeman are reasonable quality and had all of the "up" correction I needed.
For the Simmons Air Rifle scope with Adjustable Objective (good quality, I think), I went with an adjustable scope mount from B-Square. With it, I could spin the rear up to compensate for the down barrel without excessive cranking in clicks of adjustment. The rear part also had a stop that fit the depression in the reciever, so it's on there solid.
One other thing. The grooves in the receiver are 11 millimeter, rather than the standard American standard 3/8-inch, so make sure you get the right size mount or sight. (The grooves are more different than just the width - their angles are different, too.) No big deal, just be sure you get the right ones for your rifle.
Jaywalker
Supersonic muzzle velocities in a pellet gun are generally very bad for accuracy.
Pellets are poor projectiles (in terms of aerodynamics) and the transition from supersonic to subsonic flight buffets the pellets which disturbs their trajectories.
Advertising claims notwithstanding, few airguns will break the sound barrier at the muzzle--at least not with normal weight pellets.
I've shot a lot of different critters with airguns having muzzle velocities as low as the mid 300fps range. I've never seen one jump out of the way of a shot nor have I seen one spoil a good shot by reacting to the shot noise before the pellet arrived.
jaywalker,
The receiver sights will stay in place without a stop if mounted properly. I have one on a .20 R1 and one on a .177 R7 and neither walks. The key is that the tiny allen screws are just to get the rail snug into the grooves. They have absolutely no function in terms of keeping the mount in place. If you tighten them down too much, the rail torques and the clamping screw won't be able to exert enough pressure in the right direction. All of the clamping power is in the screw that tightens from the top of the sight and pulls the rail upwards/sight downwards.
You do need to remove any oil or crud from the grooves before beginning the mounting process.
Pellets are poor projectiles (in terms of aerodynamics) and the transition from supersonic to subsonic flight buffets the pellets which disturbs their trajectories.
Advertising claims notwithstanding, few airguns will break the sound barrier at the muzzle--at least not with normal weight pellets.
I've shot a lot of different critters with airguns having muzzle velocities as low as the mid 300fps range. I've never seen one jump out of the way of a shot nor have I seen one spoil a good shot by reacting to the shot noise before the pellet arrived.
jaywalker,
The receiver sights will stay in place without a stop if mounted properly. I have one on a .20 R1 and one on a .177 R7 and neither walks. The key is that the tiny allen screws are just to get the rail snug into the grooves. They have absolutely no function in terms of keeping the mount in place. If you tighten them down too much, the rail torques and the clamping screw won't be able to exert enough pressure in the right direction. All of the clamping power is in the screw that tightens from the top of the sight and pulls the rail upwards/sight downwards.
You do need to remove any oil or crud from the grooves before beginning the mounting process.
Beeman R-7 ordered from dnrsports this evening. Best price by about $50, but then, of course, find they're PA-based and the sales tax applies. Still the bargain of the bunch. Thanks for all the good advice. Will try out the iron sights before considering a scope. Ed
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Zip06
Member
I'm new to airguns so on advice I purchased an R-7. Put a 4x Bushnell airgun scope on it and I am a happy camper. I have only had it a week but it is very quiet and accurate. Beeman puts an excellent trigger on their air rifles. Neighbors have no idea when I am shooting. The neighborhood pests (meow-meow) that think my flower beds are a litter box are diminishing but my bills for Hefty bags have increased. Its all pellet placement.
JohnKSA,
Re your advice on the mounting of receiver sights without a stop: I checked the sights and I suspect you're right. Though I didn't use the set screws erroneously, I certainly could have tightened the lock-down screw insufficiently. I almost certainly didn't degrease the grooves well enough before mounting. Next time I'll do a more complete job.
Thanks,
Jaywalker
Re your advice on the mounting of receiver sights without a stop: I checked the sights and I suspect you're right. Though I didn't use the set screws erroneously, I certainly could have tightened the lock-down screw insufficiently. I almost certainly didn't degrease the grooves well enough before mounting. Next time I'll do a more complete job.
Thanks,
Jaywalker
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