Another AR first time builder/buyer

[JW74]

Hello, I am new to this forum and so far I have found a great deal of good reading on the forums here!

I am yet another guy looking to get their first AR I have done a great deal of bench rest shooting and varmint hunting with my Remington 700 in the past. I also have an older Ruger Mini-14 that I like to shoot around with as well. I found that I just can’t get the accuracy I would like from the mini-14 and this lead me to the modern generation of AR’s!

I was in the store today looking at the Smith and Wesson M&P15T. I like the design and feel of the riffle but it is a little expensive @1300. It also has a 16” barrel. Will a 16” barrel produce enough muzzle velocity and accuracy for long range shooting for coyotes and prairie dogs? The salesman in the store said the S&W was good out to 400m. I was hoping to go with a 20” barrel if I could as tight groups at the range are an important factor as well. I have been reading several posts on the site today and am already learning a great deal in terms of separate upper and lower receiver combinations as well as mid-length versus carbines. One post mentioned that I should make a list of uses for my riffle as well as possible accessories in terms of getting the most help form the other experienced members of the forum.


Uses: Mostly target/bench rest shooting and varmint hunting out here in Colorado.
Options that I would want for my AR:

- A4 upper receiver so I can mount a scope
- 4 rail forehand grip “free floating” barrel. I really like the “YHM LIGHTWEIGHT FOUR RAIL FOREARM SYSTEM”
- 4 or 6 position adjustable stock like on that of the M&P15T
- Bipod
- 20" barrel (match grade?)
- folding front and rear sights also like the ones on the M&P15T

I would probably be wise to purchase completed upper and lower assemblies for the first time as I have no prior experience working with AR’s. If so can I put a good upper and lower together for less than the retail price of the M&P15T I was looking at? Also where would the best place to be to start shopping around for the upper and lower receivers? In a perfect world I would like to build for 800 dollars or less.

Thanks for any insight as it is greatly appreciated and sorry for all of the questions.

-Joe

 

[taliv]

no difference in accuracy, but there is a difference in velocity between 16 and 20". if you're building a varmint/target gun, no reason not to get the 20". you'll want the extra velocity, and you should also pay attention to the twist.

the yhm isn't the best, but it is the best value. rails are personal preference, but free floating is important.

i have never liked the traditional collapsible stocks, but i recently have a new appreciation for them. however, for strictly prone/bench shooting, they still suck. look at magpul's or one of the competition models they put on space guns.

folding irons imho are pretty worthless for varmint guns. what would be the point? put the $ into a better scope.

 

[Dravur]

JW

If you are here in Colorado, Look me up. Come on over and I can show you all kinds of variable ARs. I have mag pul stocks, sporty rifles, dedicated prairie pooch getters. I can show you how to build one, how to choose, etc.

And you can build a decent dogger for less than $800.

 

[Canuck-IL]

Buy your upper of choice - hundreds of recommendations around this site and others. Assemble your own lower - 1 hour max on the first try; you'll need a few punches and a pair of vise grips with tape on the jaws for roll pin insertion w/o scratches. Add a match trigger - see if you can try a 2 stage vs a 1 stage before buying. Way less than $1300
/Bryan

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Take a look at Stag. You could get a Stag AR15 in a similar setup as the S&W MP15T for about $1000 or so.

 

[JW74]

Thanks Dravur, I may take you up on that if I can make it over to your neck of the woods here in the next few weeks. Are you near Denver?

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

Thumbs down on the collapsible stock. Simply not comfortable for bench shooting. Those stocks are better suited for shooting on your feet or on the move. If you do not like the LOP of an A2, there's always the 5/8" shorter A1. That is what I have on my 20" rifle and I love it. It also has a smoother butt which is more curved and is more comfortable.

Thumbs up on the YHM quad rail. It is a lot of functionality for a low price. While not lightweight like a Daniel Defense, it isn't $350 either. It free floats, allows attachments and with the new lock screws - totally solid. I have this on my 20" rifle.

If you want good accuracy, you will need to search out a REAL match-grade barrel. Warning: There is an awful lot of creative marketing and implied features/quality in the AR market when it comes to barrels. A stainless steel barrel is not match-grade, although many makers build "varmint" or "accuracy" uppers with these. They will not shoot much better than a service grade barrel - probably only because they are non-chromed. But it is not the true accuracy of a match-grade barrel.

Back up iron sights are a nice thing to have. Troy makes the best or one of the best. A front and rear Troy like that found on the M&P is going to run $275. I have a Troy on my Colt, on my 20" AR I bought a front and rear YHM flip ups for $160 out the door. Rear is an A1 style too which I like (just like Troy).

Without a match-grade barrel, and without the backup iron sights, it would still be difficult to build a rifle for less than $800.

Figure:

Lower + FFL: ~$120
LPK: $60
Buttstock: $50
YHM forearm: $120
Upper: $90
BCG: $130

That's average on some parts, cheaper on other and you're at $570 without a barrel, and without shipping costs or tools for assembly (like a barrel wrench and receiver vise block). Any standard service barrel of decent quality will be $220 - that runs you up to $790 and you don't have match-grade barrel, no nice 2-stage trigger (this really helps a lot) or backup iron sights. Barrels that offer better accuracy will run anywhere between $300-$475 depending on what you want.

I'm not certain what kind of accuracy expectations you have. Perhaps service grade barrels will do nicely for you. No matter what, to get the most out of your rifle, you will need to shoot match-grade ammo.


About that trigger, if you really want to enjoy your target shooting, I recommend that RRA 2-stage trigger. It can be found for $85 and is the 2nd best thing after freefloating you can do to improve accuracy. It makes the process more enjoyable. There's NOTHING fun about trying to squeeze off round after round for a good group down range on a factory AR-15 trigger weighing in at 9lbs. It is difficult due to the weight trying to keep steady.

 

[JW74]

Thanks for the info DTOM, that was very helpful. I hope to get a rifle with solid accuracy but I know I have been spoiled by my Rem 700 in 7mm-08. With some hand loads it will put 5 rounds in the same hole at 100 yards. If I could get .5" groups at 100 yards with my AR I would be happy.

I was looking at the Del-Ton sight and saw that you can get custom complete uppers w/ barrel for a fair price. In the 20" version they have a DPMS heavy barrel and also a DTI barrel to choose form. Is there a big difference in the two in terms of accuracy? There is also a 3rd option for a DTI that chrome lined. I don't know much about these barrels but I assume they are not match grade. Will the chrome lined barrel hurt accuracy? I plan to shoot hand loads in my AR as well.

 

[JW74]

I was searching around online for various AR sites and came across this site:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=300

I was wondering if anyone has had an Oly Arms riffle and if so how was the quality? The price is right for sure.

If I did get that model with the free floated barrel would I be able to add the YHM lightweight forend rail and M4 style 6 position stock afterwards?

 

[Kingcreek]

wander over to AR15.com
You can browse threads and pics and get expert opinions until you are so thoroughly confused that you give up and buy another bolt action rifle.

 

[Whitman31]

A stainless steel barrel is not match-grade

Where did you come up with that comment? I agree that not all stainless barrels are match grade, but that doesn't mean that stainless barrels are not capable of being match grade. Stainless Match grade barrels are readily available, and are "match grade".

Or did I read this wrong and you were saying that not all stainless barrels are match grade?

 

[strat81]

Thumbs down on the collapsible stock. Simply not comfortable for bench shooting. Those stocks are better suited for shooting on your feet or on the move. If you do not like the LOP of an A2, there's always the 5/8" shorter A1. That is what I have on my 20" rifle and I love it. It also has a smoother butt which is more curved and is more comfortable.

I have to disagree with this. I'm a pretty short guy and A1 and A2 stocks just don't work for me; standing, sitting, or prone. There are a ton of adjustable options out there, not just the typical GI style.