Another range moron heard from...

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Navy joe

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I thought I'd get tired of stupid people at the range threads, but the stupid people demand them by making new stories! Top this if you can.

I was at my usual indoor range for a fair chunk of the day. Young guy and his SO are shooting. I watch but do not comment on the first time I get swept, young lady brings the gun off the line to the table 10ft to the rear of the line with the slide forward, sweeps me, then proceeds to struggle to lock the slide back while pointing it at her man's back. Not strong enough, sets it down. I guess I have a soft spot for not wanting to ruin new shooter's days. Two minutes later the young man turns and brings his gun off the line, a 1911 variant that is cocked and unlocked. Sweeps me. I skipped my usual first polite and gentle approach.

"Is that gun clear?"

"Yeah"

"Well how exactly am I supposed to know that a cocked and unlocked 1911 is clear when I get swept with it?"

"You should just assume I'm doing the right thing."

I left for a few to avoid the accident/to cool down. Never heard anyone that brain dead. Why they had to bring their pistols off the line for every mag refill I'll never know. Their next visit may not go as planned, range staff aware of said genius.
 
I'm really surprised some indoor ranges don't have more accidents. Has anyone ever been to a comercial indoor range where the employees monitor the shooters well, not being obnixious, but truly observing and helping with safety?
 
Monitor? :uhoh:

The employees at the three indoor ranges I go to near me all seem to have the same idea, which is "I'm not going in there."

I have NEVER seen an employee step foot out of the attatched store and into the range EVER. Maybe they watch the camera, if there is one, but I kind of doubt it.

I guess that says something. :eek:
 
Wow, I would not be happy either.

As for indoor ranges mine is pretty good, mag loading is done on the line so no back-n-forth. I am lucky to say I have not been swept (I am assuming you mean the business end of a firearm in some way gets pointed your way at the range?) and hopefully never will be.

My $0.02

RFB
 
Two months ago, I had the family (SO, 16 yr old, 14 yr old, and an 8 yr old) at the range, and an older couple with their adult (20ish) children were there. Looked like the older folks were teaching the younger folks how to shoot, and they had a nice little assortment of steel and tupperware laid out.

We were shooting with ear protection, so I never heard the shot, but noticed during a mag change that they were hastily cleaning up their equipment, and a bloody towel was wrapped around the old man's hand.

"You guys O.K.? What happened?" I asked.

"Oh, I just had my hand in the wrong position when firing, and the slide came back and bit me." He had been firing a little Ruger Mk. II with a standard 4" Bbl.

"You need anything? I've got a pretty complete first-aid kit in the car..."

"No, this is going to take more than a first-aid kit. Thank you, though."

They packed up their gear and left. The whole time they were packing up, they never talked much, and were really in a hurry. I figured he must've been in some pain. Pretty good blood splash on the ground--must've got him good. Hell, it almost looked sprayed.

Two days later, I'm in the last gun store open in our town, as we were looking for a .22 bolt for the 8 year old (mine is too long--He's a little kid, so i think he's getting a cricket). I mentioned we were at the range that weekend, and since we were talking .22s, I mentioned the guy with the slide bite and she gets a funny look on her face. She pulls a .22 Mark II from the back room and shows it to me.

"Did it look like this?"

"Yeah. Exactly like that."

"You know that wasn't a slide bite, right?"

"What? What the hell was it, then?"

Turns out the old man had been trying to clear a jam that his son had got, and somehow, shot himself through the hand. He'd actually put his hand over the barrel, and while trying to "clear" the round, shot himself. The bullet passed completely through his hand. He said that he couldn't keep a gun that he'd shot himself with and needed to sell it. The clerk saw the bandages, and the blood residues on both the palm and back of the hand.

This gets better. Thinking about the blood splash, I went back to the range with my wife. The blood was still there, and it was definitely a spray--aimed at approximately 225 degrees, if the normal target represents 0/360 degrees. In other words, directly behind us. Immediately behind the shooting tables is the club trailer, an older doublewide that someone donated, and the bullet passed through the first layer of aluminum siding, but not into the trailer interior. The bullet hit directly behind my family's shooting table.

No wonder the jerk wouldn't meet our eyes.

A friend at work got a great price on that Mark II.

I've never had anything like that happen around me when shooting. Never. In 30 years. I guess I've been lucky. It was definitely a wakeup call, and I'm a hell of a lot more vigilant about what goes on around me and mine when at the range. I believe I had a natural instinct to just "trust" other shooters around me--after all, it's only the gangbanger-looking 'thug life' kids that don't know what they're doing--and that's a mistake I won't make in the future.
 
I got swept the other day.

I was at one end of the range, against the left-most wall, and the dude was at the other, against the right-most wall. All the lanes are stalls with barriers separating each shooter's area.

So there I am, reloading when a frikkin' laser beam appears on the wall about 3 feet ahead of where I was standing.

It went out a bit, them came back in and then disappeared as it would be hitting the barrier. Then back out and finally back onto the dude's target.

So even though there were numerous barriers between him and I I still feel as if I was swept.

I didn't say anything. I should have.
 
I find most commercial indoor ranges to be a massive disappointment.

1st off, there always seems to be someone with a 460 Wby in the booth next to me.

Range safety is problematic. Supervision is minimal.

When I lived in the Northeast, I shot at many indoor ranges but the difference was that they were private clubs. (Almost the only way to shoot legally in the NE is at a private club.) The difference in the shooting environment between the private clubs in the NE and the commercial ranges found here in the West is enormous.

The main thing is that at the private ranges, a lot of the time there might only be 1 or 2 people there. Commercial ranges, by their nature, need high usage to be viable. And high usage means lots of noise and lots of people, some of whom are bound to be "range morons".

When I moved to TX, I "bit the bullet" (heh...heh...) and bought myself a little country spread where I have set up my own 25 yard pistol range. So now, I shoot whenever I want. I make all the rules. ("Draw from a holster? Why of course, Frankie." "Shoot while moving? No problem." "Sweep me? Get the blank outta here!")

Now I'm spoiled.
 
The range I go to is basically just desert. I love it because there are really no rules, but I also hate it because there are no rules...

People mistreat the range. I always head out with a large trash bag, and clean up the mess created by all the bottles/non-biodegradable things that I shoot. However, it's apparent very few other people actually care to do this. Shells and brass litter the firing range, and when driving up, the brass shines in the sunlight, creating thousands of bright little sparks littering the landscape. Dead computers, sofas, dryers, etc litter the range. All part of a national park, which was kind enough to entrust us, the local citizenry, to shoot responsibly.

The one time that I was actually worried about others, however, was when I went out to the range with my girlfriend. I had my HK 91 slung over my shoulder, and was walking out to the range with her. As we were walking, some other people were leaving in their Chevy Suburban. The guy in the passenger seat, however, was pointing a hunting rifle out the window, and kept the gun trained a few yards in front of me. I stopped walking, and motioned to the guy to shoot if that was what he wanted, but he didn't. He just kept looking at us, with the rifle out the window. I didn't know what they were up to, so I unslung my rifle, and loaded a mag, but didn't cock the gun, or take the safety off. I kept the rifle pointed in the air the entire time, but I maintained eye contact with the guy with the rifle. After I did this, the guy in the passenger seat said something to the driver, and they took off.

To this day, I still wonder what on earth those guys were thinking/doing. I was legitimately worried for a few moments that they wanted to shoot at us, because the guy in the passenger seat kept that rifle pointed a few yards in front of us the entire time.

At any rate, after they left, we had a great time, and I got my gf to fire a gun for the first time! Too bad those idiots in the Suburban had to give that day at the range such an ominous beginning...
 
I have NEVER seen an employee step foot out of the attatched store and into the range EVER. Maybe they watch the camera, if there is one, but I kind of doubt it.
Click to expand...
The last time I got swept was at Stonewall near Cleveland. I was trying to check zero for some guns before Camp Perry. The guy in the stall next to me swept me with his Ruger auto pistol. He was coming off the line, so I let it go. A few minutes later three guys yelling at each other in Serbo-Croatian started wrestling over a loaded 12ga. pump. I got out of there and have never been on the range again. Their supervision is minimal at best. No doubt this is why they've had at least one person go there, rent a gun and commit suicide.
 
I was at the range yesterday with a friend. It was freezing cold, the wind was blowing at gale force, and it was snowing sideways. But we were determined to at least shoot a little. We shot until our fingers were numb. On the way out, we stopped to speak briefly with the man in the lane next to us. It was actually another pistol range complete with berms all around.

I said to him, "You know, only crazy people come out to shoot in weather like this!" :D

He gave me an equally big smile and replied, "Yeah, but I love being here and not having to worry about other people pointing guns at me."

I've never had close calls like some mentioned here, but I have been swept from time to time and keep an eye out all the same. I've been known to be fairly blunt when people point guns in my direction. :cuss: If I had been in the position of the OP, I probably would have responded with something like, "Well obviously you aren't doing the right thing because you are pointing your gun at me!" It is all well and good to be polite, but if people persist in pointing guns at you, intentional or not, you need to get their attention and correct the problem. I agree with notifying the range staff.
 
I have been 'swept' a fairly large amount of times. Then again I was a friearms instructor on my job for 14 years, so it was bound to happen. With me though, I have been 'swept' more at outdoor ranges than at indoor ranges, and this is true for even those times when I was not performing range duties (like shooting for fun). At the local indoor public range, I cannot recall ever being 'swept'. I probably have been, but just cannot recall. At a local (60 mile away, but as local as it gets here) outdoor range, it seems getting 'swept' is a daily routine when you are there; and they run a pretty tight range too as far as rules go, just not enough manpower to cover the whole line. This thread only goes to show the importance of a range having competent range staff, and enough of them, to watch over and control the whole line, or multiple firing lines, as applicable. Of course when a range seems to get thgat part down right, a lot of shooters start complaining about 'range nazis'; a term which I can tell you is very offensive to any decent range officer (I almost did not use it here, but it is the term many shooter use to describe range officers, usually when the shooter did something wrong and was corrected by the R/O).

I much prefer a well run range, with proper supervisio, than one without it.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
I'm really surprised some indoor ranges don't have more accidents. Has anyone ever been to a comercial indoor range where the employees monitor the shooters well, not being obnixious, but truly observing and helping with safety?
Click to expand...
The guys at Bud's seem to be pretty good about it. I see them in the range sometimes, and there are windows where they can watch. I've even heard people being reprimanded before. Somehow I think I probably have been swept before, but you can't see anybody else because of the stalls.
 
You know, it can be kind of amusing sometimes.

At one range I go to (a department of conservation range), they have rather restrictive rules. Sure, I'd prefer to be able to do a few things they disallow, but their land, their rules, the price is low, and the location is fairly convenient. I am always hearing people complain (generally, not at THR, but other places) about the range officers there and how they can be real nazis about safety. Then I read other things about other ranges, where people are mad about getting muzzle swept and seeing people with truly negligent actions, and how the responsible shooters can't stand it.

Threads like this one make me appreciate range officers that are fanatical about people following all the rules. I'd rather get reminders to follow the rules than get injured or killed because some idiot was breaking rules with impunity.
 
I used to shoot at ranges but got the heck scared out of me a few times.
Luckily my hunting camp is 40 miles from the house and I just go up there and shoot. Nobody but me to worry about and making Coke cans jump is kinda fun after shooting holes in paper gets old.
 
I got swept twice at my last visit at an indoor range a few months back. The second time, I asked the fellow politely to please keep the muzzle pointed downrange - he asked in a very sneering manner "Why?" and I said "Because I'm going to knock your block off if you point a gun at me again". He packed up and left, muttering as he went.

Not very HR, but I was livid at his attitude; I'm sick to death of unsafe shooters and I'm getting cranky in my old age.
 
There's an older fella who works at the shop/range I go to, and he's definitely one to be on your toes around. Very nice, good guy, just...sometimes he gets a little loose with the 4 Rules.

I was headed to the range section the other day, and he was checking me in. I cleared my pistol and opened the action to show empty, and he picked it up to have a look, with his finger on the trigger the whole time he was handling it. Since I had already verified it was empty (visually & by touch) I just let it go, and let him continue to have a look. I did do a little dancing, though, when the barrel came my way a few times. It's tough to deny that instinct to get the hell out of the way when the barrel of a gun is pointed at you, whether you know it's loaded or not.:D
 
I got swept twice at my last visit at an indoor range a few months back. The second time, I asked the fellow politely to please keep the muzzle pointed downrange - he asked in a very sneering manner "Why?" and I said "Because I'm going to knock your block off if you point a gun at me again". He packed up and left, muttering as he went.

Not very HR, but I was livid at his attitude; I'm sick to death of unsafe shooters and I'm getting cranky in my old age.
Click to expand...
I probably would have threatened the guy as well, but would have been to the owners/management before he left the line. Being unsafe is one thing. KNOWINGLY being unsafe is utterly intolerable. I don't react well to having my life recklessly endangered.

I had a similar problem once on the Ft. Knox public range with a couple of imbeciles shooting while others were downrange changing targets. After we received a cosmically stupid response, we threatened to return fire if it happened again. We then headed straight for the range control shack to report them. They were gone by the time we returned.

If you like the range you use, don't let WILLFUL misconduct go. One shooting could leave you with one less (or no) place to shoot.
 
At the indoor range here in Tacoma, I noticed a father and two sons a couple lanes down. The dad was so busy taking pictures that he wasn’t paying attention to the younger one as he carried his pistol, finger on the trigger, between the two lanes they were using all the time pointing at dad and his brother. I didn’t say anything, probably should have.

Same range a few months later, I’m now in the lane the above group was using when a group of about six college kids came in. Why the range allowed six to use one lane I’ll never understand, but after some 20ish girl swept me I said, very forcefully, “Please don’t point that gun at me!” That was all it took. They were taking the gun off the line to a table in against the back wall to load until their turn to shoot came up.

Same range a few months later, college kids again, this time I was swept by a boy, and again responded as above. He apologized and never swept the muzzle by me again, but they were goofing around so much I left. I told the guy (who is supposed to be monitoring the range) to “…go ahead and call an ambulance now” as I left.
 
Bullet Trap in Plano is pretty conscienscious. They patrol the lanes regularly and correct bad behavior.
 
I shoot at the NRA headquarters range in Fairfax. I'd never shot at a formal range before I moved to VA (out West it didn't seem necessary), so I had no idea how good I have it. Listening to some of these stories, I'm thankful for the strict rules at my range.

The ROs are fastidious about time when there's a wait list, as they should be, and keep a good eye out on the line, but don't hassle anyone who's being safe. Contrast this to another NoVA range I won't mention by name, to which I have no intention of returning.

That's not to say there aren't Darwin award contestants now and again, but they're dealt with. I personally witnessed a group of thugs put an AK round into the target carrier, followed shortly thereafter by a very pissed off RO giving a very strongly worded lecture followed by the boot.

Now if only it wasn't so darn crowded!
 
A range I go to *requires* the use of chamber flags. They sell them for $1, they're yours to keep. I like that rule, especially since the range is *very* nice (i.e., I'd have no problem taking my mother and mother-in-law there) and I'd hate to see it closed (it's a municipal range).

They used to require that all firearms be brought to and removed from the firing line in a case, but they're gotten weird on that. Last time I was there, the RSO told me to remove the rifle from the trunk of my car, then remove it from its case, and then carry it to the line that way. He did not mention a chamber flag. I haven't been there since then.
 
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