Another range moron heard from...

[wheelgunslinger]

I have to praise the indoor range in Asheville NC (On Target) where I used to shoot when I lived there. They had cameras in the range and kept their eyes on the shooters. Any funny business and you got thrown out.
Mature behavior was appreciated.

And, they're nice folk too.

 

[Navy joe]

FieroCDSP---- A lot of the incidents in this thread come down to one real issue: Lack of training from a younger age. I was never taught any of this when I was younger, in fact, my mom wouldn't let me have a sucker-dart gun . I think putting a basic firearms class as an elective in schools would be the best thing. Look how many students eventually go into criminal justice.

Agreed, it is the culture of people new to guns. It is why I try to be polite if I am not in immediate danger, I might teach a new shooter something. I say something or move in an obvious manner even if it is just at a gun shop with the display guns. I learned early, to quote myself from another thread:

I most certainly did not miss the point about not putting my finger on the trigger. I missed that point 28 years ago after my first ever shot with a gun, a beretta .22. I dropped the gun to my side to admire my handiwork(hit, one dead milk jug). Apparently my finger was still on the trigger and I took the gun away from downrange. Next thing I know I'm laying on the ground, my dad is standing over me, he has the gun and the side of my head hurts, it's on fire! No, no ND, rather I had been disarmed/whalloped upside the head in one smooth motion for my safety transgression. I was 5. Never did that again.

Home training, it works!

Irritating part about this story it is a semi-public range, you have to have some sort of military ID to shoot, let alone get past the Marine at the front gate. That's also where some of the problems start. The guy was military, as a whole "empty" weapons are often treated with utter contempt in the military and little care is given to where they are pointed. Kind of like the trap range mentioned earlier.
I didn't say anymore because anymore would have involved offering to point my gun at him if he did it again. I've gotten to that point in the past. Don't worry, I wasn't polite though. It was easier to go shoot the breeze with the range staff and cool off.

Everyone is down on public ranges, one of the main reasons bad range behavior makes me mad is there are not a little pack of elves running loose in this country building new places to shoot. Every incident degradges the quality of people willing to go to a range and eventually closes it. I've got 50 acres I'm moving back to, but I still want to have other places to shoot.

 

[geronimotwo]

Yes. Any time you're not going to be shooting immediately, the firearm should be unloaded with the action OPEN. Some places also require some sort of empty chamber indicator. Our club does.

the range i go to uses a short length of flourescent weed whacker line through the barrel when targets are being changed. cheap, and easy for the ro to see.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

I've been swept a more than a couple times at one of my local indoor ranges.
I don't go there anymore.
I have figured out the the people who really know what they're doing tend to frequent a different range, and apparently, the gang-bangers and first-timers go to the aforementioned place.

The second place charges a little more to rent the lane and actually makes you buy the targets from them - you can't use your own.
I thought this was a rip-off at first, but after having someone's grandma repeatedly sweep me and other incidents occur at the other place, I now realize that my sense of safety and shooting pleasure apparently come at a price.

 

[alemonkey]

The range I go to now is members and their guests only, and they make new members go through a safety orientation and qualify with one of the club officers before they can shoot. So far, everyone I've met on the line has been friendly and safe.

What really scares me is gun shows. It seems every time I go to one I see multiple people pointing guns carelessly around the room. It always gives me the heebie jeevies.

 

[Soybomb]

If I see someone being unsafe at the indoor range, I just talk to the staff and ask them to watch the person. No confrontations with the guy that doesn't want to hear why his behavior is unsafe and I can keep shooting without worrying about him sweeping me again in a couple minutes.

Also, whenever ANY shooter is loading unloading their magazines IT SHOULD BE DONE AT THE BOOTH. Most of these folks load their mags on the bench behind the booths. URGH!!!

Alright I'll bite, why? If the gun is on the line and open, what is the ammo going to do?

 

[Brian Dale]

Also, whenever ANY shooter is loading unloading their magazines IT SHOULD BE DONE AT THE BOOTH. Most of these folks load their mags on the bench behind the booths. URGH!!!

Alright I'll bite, why? If the gun is on the line and open, what is the ammo going to do?

Among other things, a policy like this cuts down the visual clutter that Range Officers have to handle.

If people are handling ammo and mags behind the firing line, they're moving forward and back more. ROs have to keep track of what everyone is doing in more locations, standing and sitting, in various orientations and body positions...it makes it harder to pick out the person that's doing something unsafe.

A parallel in aircraft: pilots don't talk about "cockpit workload" because they're lazy; they do so because they don't like crashing airplanes.

 

[che_70b]

Safe gun handling at gun shows is difficult. With the tables set up with crowds on both sides and staff for each table vendor in close proximity to anyone handling a gun to serve/watch you it is hard to find a a totaly safe dirrection to point a gun you are checking out in. Then throw in how many vendor have their lashed to the table to titely to aim at the up in the air when you want to see the site picture.

 

[CountGlockula]

After reading CountGlockula's post, and a few others, I have to ask: what is the harm in loading your mags away from the bench?

boomer-to prevent unknowing shooters from walking around with a loaded weapon pointed at others.

 

[v8stang289]

When taking the class for my concealed carry permit, half of the class was intentionally swept by one of the instructors. The instructor was a LEO firearms trainer and his assistant was a retired LEO. Toward the end of the class the instructor was talking about different sighting devices on concealed carry weapons and was showing the class a walther .22 with a laser sight. He handed the firearm to his assistant (the retired LEO) who promptly pointed the gun at a student and placed the lazer on his chest, before going down the row and doing the same to all the students in that row. I couldnt believe what he did, but what was worse is that nothing was said about it by the instructor, who saw the whole thing.

 

[CountGlockula]

When taking the class for my concealed carry permit, half of the class was intentionally swept by one of the instructors.

The only weapon that the instructor is allowed to sweep to his/her students is a dummy gun or plastic gun. My instructor used one to give us examples of point shooting, drawing and focusing on the sights. I'm thankful to have an instructor to show us the difference...rather than sweeping us with a REAL weapon.

 

[QuackAddict]

I think there are lots of ranges that are struggling to survive and stay profitable, with the rising cost of real estate, increasing population density, and noise ordinances and they are on a shoe-string budget when it comes to payroll. The range I go to has no RO, unless you count the owner, who is most often BSing with customers inside the shop, or doing trigger jobs for the idiot hunters round here who think they need a .338 Win Mag to hunt deer with. That being said, is why I choose to visit the range when it is empty, or if time permits, visit my lease when I need a little more room.

The range I go to has the requisite "shoot at your own risk" signs posted in several places, and when you pay the man, you sign a legal disclaimer of liability in case you get shot. Perhaps this partially explains his (along with other's) lackadaisical approach when it comes to range safety.

 

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

I am a RO here in Indy and believe me, its not the shooter's fault. Generally, we tell the people that come in the rules, but we are very specific on them. We do not leave any ambiguity. Sweeping is not the only thing out there. I replaced countless customer targets (they leave them so i gotta change them out as we supply targets) and being downrange while we are cold and hearing a slide drop. A good RO should be able to give the rules, give good guidance. Some ranges ive been to the ROs dont give anything. They stand around and talk about BS while people are shooting. Scary. Many shooters are new to the sport. Yelling at them will only scare them away from the sport. Yelling to get thier attn then explaining like a human being why they should not do that will reduce the chances of it happening again. Incidentally, with public ranges and costs, we have a lot of volunteers. Nothing beats a day in the open air and free shooting time . Be safe

 

[QuackAddict]

The lady next to me with the Glock 26 that she had to have the instructor remove the magazine ( she could not operate the button) put that round there. Sorry to report she qualified. In Texas if you do not qualify you REALLY DO NOT NEED TO CARRY A GUN!!!!!

If you lack the strength or manual dexterity to drop a magazine or rack a slide, you don't need to be handling firearms, much less carrying one concealed, period.

 

[Deanimator]

the range i go to uses a short length of flourescent weed whacker line through the barrel when targets are being changed. cheap, and easy for the ro to see.

Our club keeps a supply of computer cable ties, tightened up so there's a loop at the end, for use as empty chamber indicators. If you've got some kind of purpose made indicator (like the kind that come with Hammerlis), you can use that instead.

 

[QuackAddict]

Brings another story to mind:

I'm with my wife at the gun counter of a big-box outdoors store window shopping. This biker couple catches my attention (all decked out in black leather, chaps, red bandannas, biker tattoos, the whole nine yards) as they walk up to the counter, and after much talking amongst themselves and pointing at the various guns, they ask to "see a few". As I'm making my way down the display away from them, I notice this couple is very negligent in their handling of firearms, and they dry fired several handguns repeatedly, with no regard to where the muzzle was pointed. Then, as I was thinking that it couldn't get much worse, the woman asks to see one of their small-frame .38s, then proceeds to point it right at her companion's forehead, right between his eyes, and dry fire it several times as she lets out this long, maniacal laugh. As soon as I heard her say "So what do you gotta do to buy a gun here?" I was practically running for the nearest exit, with my wife right on my heels.

No, it's not a shooting range, and theoretically, the guns are *supposedly* unloaded, but the moron clerk who continued to hand the other morons firearms while standing there watching them handle them the way they were should have been fired immediately, or at the very least transferred to the Women's clothing department.

 

[boomer1911a1]

If you lack the strength or manual dexterity to drop a magazine or rack a slide, you don't need to be handling firearms, much less carrying one concealed, period.

That's a bit harsh, isn't it Quack? I believe that the personal defense weapon was designed to allow the weak and infirm to defend themselves from strong-arm predators. Perhaps a person with limited physical abilities might be better served with a revolver or an auto with a tip-up barrel (does Beretta still make those?) but to deny them guns, period... Yikes!

 

[bps3040]

My wife has just started getting into shooting. I have taught her the golden rules and she knows I am paranoid about them. I have friends I will not hunt with anymore because of the way they handle guns. We HAD 2 ranges we would go shoot at..Hot Wells and Carters. At Hot Wells they have 3 or 4 range guys correcting and teaching safety. Before every re-start, they make everyone listen to the rules and they correct you as you shoot. If you are an idiot and continue to screw up, they throw you out. Safety all the way.

We go to the other range and boy, what a difference. She noticed right away(even being a beginner) She asked me ,if we could leave, as they did were not safety conscious at all. She could not believe it..... sweeping, letting kids run behind the shooters(with all the brass laying around), one guy "watching" (yeah, right)30 shooters and no corrections. We packed up right away and went inside and let them know what we thought. They acted like they could care less of what we thought. Never going back. Be safe!

 

[sturmgewehr]

There's a reason when I go to indoor ranges I watch people shoot before I choose a firing lane. If there is one left handed shooter on the line and he's unsafe, I leave. Otherwise I usually go all the way down to the right side of the range. Most idiot moves are done with the pistol pointing to the left. I never stand left of people shooting I don't know. If I'm with a buddy we take turns watching the line while the other one fires. If there's an unsafe shooter doing stupid stuff, we'll talk to them and if they're unresponsive we pack up and leave.

I used to be a range master at an indoor range where we watched people on the line from a bullet proof glass observation room. If someone was being unsafe, I walked out and gave them some pointers. If they continued to break the safety rules they were asked to leave. If someone had an AD on the line, they were out and were not welcome back, and it did happen.

I watched some idiot shoot a round almost directly left into the wall (from the far left lane). I couldn't get out there fast enough to stop what I saw happening.

He was shooting a Beretta 92 and the slide didn't go all the way into battery (probably reloads or a very dirty pistol). It was only a fraction of an inch out of battery but just enough to keep it from firing. The guy tries to pull the trigger and nothing happens. He brings the pistols muzzle towards himself as if to look at the side of the pistol, the whole time repeatedly squeezing the trigger. I tried to get his attention on the PA system but he was ignoring me. Then BOOM, the round went off and the bullet smacked the wall just feet away from him. That guy got an ear full, I was surprised the owner didn't fire me for the things that I said to him.

 

[Zundfolge]

Its no wonder the gun culture is dying out, what with new shooters constantly barraged by angry coots and curmudgeons cussing them out and threatening them with violence for "minor" infractions of the safety rules.

The 4 rules are very very important, but yelling at people, threatening them and insisting that the Second Amendment shouldn't apply to them because they are inexperienced and untrained is NOT "High Road" and only furthers the cause of the antis.

One of the guys that works for me is interested in getting a concealed carry piece and a permit (he's hunted since he was old enough to walk and owns an 8" .357mag, but has little handgun experience).

We went to a local gun shop and he asked the clerk to see one of the pistols (A Walther P99 compact) when he picked up the pistol (which the clerk had set on a mat with the slide locked back) his finger went right to the trigger. I quietly told him to "Watch your finger". His response was to set the pistol down and stop looking at it. He later asked me what I was talking about, and it gave me a chance to explain the 4 rules and how he shouldn't touch the trigger until he was ready to fire. I ended my mini-lecture by saying "Violating any of the 4 rules makes you look like you don't know much about guns, and you never want any salesman to realize you don't know anything about the product he's selling. Plus its just not good form." He got that quite clearly. So even my very quiet and low key rebuke freaked him out slightly, so can you imagine what happens to newbie shooters when someone starts yelling at them.

Every time you witness a 4 rules violation you have an opportunity to educate. Or you can waste that opportunity and turn off yet another curious potential member of the gun culture... and when it comes time to vote for candidates that wish to disarm us, which side will these people come down on?

 

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

+1
You get more flies with honey than vinegar

 

[cpttango30]

After I had to dive out of the range because some yahoo with full auto started shooting in to the celing and all over the range. I stopped going so did he as I was yelling some 4 letter words at him and his posse as I abruptly left the range.

 

[RP88]

I've been shooting a small handful of times at a range. The first two times, I was nervous because I was by myself, but I still had enough common sense to be gentle and keep the gun pointed either at the floor or rested pointing down-range if reloading or whatever. Just the fact that its a gun should make anyone have at least a little common sense, but alas...

The range I went to has large windows as well. there is also a small observation room/office behind the R/O's desk, so someone is at least close enough to be alerted immediately if someone is being stupid.

 

[kingpin008]

If you lack the strength or manual dexterity to drop a magazine or rack a slide, you don't need to be handling firearms, much less carrying one concealed, period.

So my arthritic grandmother doesn't deserve the right to defend herself? I'd tell you what I think about that, but I'm afraid it would get me kicked off of The High Road.

I suggest you think a bit more about what you mean to say before you post. Physical ability should be no barrier to obtaining and using the best tools available for the job of self defense. Period.

 

[Navy joe]

Its no wonder the gun culture is dying out, what with new shooters constantly barraged by angry coots and curmudgeons cussing them out and threatening them with violence for "minor" infractions of the safety rules.

You know, I make an effort to be polite and educate, but I'm pretty positive firmness has a place. Not certified yet, but I've Ro'd plenty of club matches and run lines in military qual shoots so I don't get apoplectic or anything, I've had lots of guns pointed at me. I was curt in questioning, but not yelling. When I asked him if it was clear and how I was supposed to know that a cocked and unlocked 1911 was clear he had a chance to get what is known as a "clue." Fact is I am usually too polite. Like I said earlier I got smacked to the ground for pointing a gun in an unsafe direction, I think that would be good for most anyone. When do I get to be impolite? When I eat a .45 slug? Covering someone with a muzzle is not a minor infraction. Ever. If that guy becomes anti-gun and votes for Hillary because of me, I don't care. Hopefully he keeps getting yelled at until he gets a clue and before he hurts someone.

On the strength thing, sure they should have a firearm, but you know what most people having trouble with a slide do? They overhand grip it, pull it into themselves and usually end up pointing it at their stomach while trying to open the slide. That's what the young lady in my OP was doing. Tip-up barrels, slide rackers, and revolvers are all better options for people with strength issues. So is a double barrel shotgun.