Let's be honest - Range safety

[kestak]

Greetings,

I live in Augusta GA. I go to the range 3-4 times a week.

Friday, we went shooting the AK, so on the contrary as our usual habit, we did not take the end line but one in the middle (rifle line). A stupid young black guy (long hair and dressed gansta style) was shooting a MAC-10 type pistol 2 lines down from mine. The more he was shooting, the more he was bending backward and the higher the bullets. He turned toward me with his finger on the trigger and his gun aiming directly at my chest. I screamed so hard at him that my girl friend had to tell me he got it. I got a nighmare last night about that...

This is only the most recent example that I saw. The previous week, I saw another black guy painting the whole row with his handgun. 3-4 weeks ago, I had to talk to another black guy who was racking his slide with his finger on the trigger. A little bit after I had to scream to him because he pointed his gun to the chest of his friend while talking to him.

Now the question: Is it because it is Augusta, GA but I see too many young black guys acting stupid at the range? In one year, I remember only once a white guy painting the line with his gun and his buddy jumped on him and they left right away. We keep a close eye all the time on the line and VERY OFTEN when a black guy has a gun in his hands we see bad shooting or bad behaviour.

I am not a racist, there is a lot of military black guys coming to shoot at the range and they shoot and behave very well. But it looks like all the non-military black guys dress gansta style and they suck at handling guns.

Oh! If some of you think I am racist, last week, there was 2 young black women (inexperienced with handguns) shooting and my wife and I spent 30 minutes with them to help them improve their skills. We let them shoot our guns and give them good guidance. We all enjoyed it and it was the highlight of the week for us.

Thank you

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

What color socks were they wearing? Sock color would have about as much to do with it as skin complexion.

Range idgits are range idgits - whaddyra gonna do? That's why I belong to a private gun club - I don't do public ranges. Range idgits acting like gangsters of any color are even worse.

 

[savetheclaypigeons]

It's pretty sad we have to defend ourselves from being perceived as racist. I know exactly what you mean. It's the lifestyle they portray that gives me the hibbity jibbities. I'd have a good long talk with a range officer or start going at different times or find another way to shoot without being endangered.

 

[Floppy_D]

Firearms safety is a learned habit. It takes training for someone to learn. There's a good chance that firearms were not something that they were trained on while young. My guess is that it's less the "black" demographic and more the "city kid" demographic. Lots of city kids miss out on that stuff in their youth, and anyone can suffer from lack of training. Sounds like you found a good chance to be a mentor.

 

[Mr White]

Are there many white or hispanic gangsta types around Augusta?

I would think that the general gangsta type wouldn't care too much about gun safety. Around here we have Wangstas; white gangsta wannabes. They act the same way at the range, with the attitude that having a gun in their hands somehow makes them invincible bada$$es. I don't think it has so much to do with the color as the lifestyle, or wannabe lifestyle.

 

[kestak]

Greetings,

I know the genetic of the color has nothing to do with the bad habit for sure.
But I think there is a culture and behaviour associated with the color not because it is genetic, but a learned (or non learned behaviour).

FYI: This is a public range with members and people coming and paying per range session.

I did not see much gansta style hispanic or whitey (hehe. wink to Obama's wife rumorred tape) gansta. But I saw a hispanic shooting his nose out by having a 500 recoiling in his face.

Monday, a young black guy came into the range with a gun in his belt (not in a holster) and the guy at the counter told him to disarm his gun. He took the gun, pointed it at the guy behind the counter and said : "This gun?". There was 3 members in the room and that guy almost pissed in his pants when he saw 3 guys pointing their guns at him.

A while ago, another black guy dresse with clothes that could git an elephant registered for range time and then pulled out from his pants a 12 gauge pistol grip style. He got 4 guns drew at him instantly by members in the room.

I could go on and on with such stories and they almost all imply a black guy.

Thank you

 

[Aguila Blanca]

FYI: This is a public range with members and people coming and paying per range session.

So who takes the money? In your diatribe, I didn't see any mention of a range safety officer. Sounds like there needs to be one. If there is one, he/she isn't doing the job.

 

[M1911]

Any private gun clubs near you? You tend not to have as many safety violations at private gun clubs -- people who violate the safety rules get tossed.

 

[Wheeler44]

Take off the rose colored glasses bro'. Bad gun handling skills come in all flavors. Is it possible that you are letting bias creep into your psyche? I assure you that there are plenty of folks of all colors that handle firearms in an unsafe manner. Watch carefully with an objective point of view and I am confident you will concur.

 

[Robert Hairless]

I know the genetic of the color has nothing to do with the bad habit for sure.

But I think there is a culture and behaviour associated with the color not because it is genetic, but a learned (or non learned behaviour).

So you think that stupidity is not inherited by black people but is learned by them because they are black.

How do people who are not black manage to learn stupidity on their own?

 

[Sans Authoritas]

As kestak pointed out, it's not about genetics or melatonin level. It's about a particular culture. A culture that happens to be adhered to by a sizeable portion of people who happen to be black. A culture adhered to by such people because the adherents perceive it as a racial attribute. Bill Cosby, Alan Keyes, Thomas Sowell, will all admit that this culture is predominantly black, and that's not racism at all. That's reality. I lived in Italy for a time. I can tell you that the Italian culture is devoid of any customer service as recognized by the rest of the world. It is also full of "men" who consider it acceptable to leer at women up and down, and take liberties with them on the metro and buses. Is it caused by them being the genetic descendants of Romans? No. It is a social, not biological problem.

You can justly and logically catalog a particular aspect of a culture by the race and geographical location of its adherents. There's nothing wrong with that. There is only a problem when you perceive the race itself, not the culture, as the problem.

We should judge each person as an individual. But that does not preclude us from placing someone into an appropriate category. You can easily tell a Nigerian medical student from a downright "gangsta thug" in the blink of an eye.

As the OP said, these were not people who had accepted mainstream culture and safe gunhandling skills. They're people who pride themselves on being thuggish and ignorant. Such people do, in fact, come in all colors. He's not saying that being black makes you act thuggish, etc. He's saying that there is a much higher ratio of such people among those of African descent. A grossly-higher ratio, as the aforementioned black personalities will lament and have lamented. There is nothing wrong with complaining about such "cultures," just as there is nothing wrong with complaining about the "cultures" that treat women horribly, (including those All-American sub-cultures here in the U.S.) "cultures" that think it totally acceptable to lie to get what they want, and "cultures" who love violence above reason.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[Gerald in Ga]

Howdy Kestac,
Where in Augusta is this range? I get there sometimes and might drop by. If you can't post the name of the range on this site just post the 2 streets that intersect close by and I can find it.
Thanks.

 

[Don Lu]

This thread is amazing to me...in a sad way. Unsafe behavior comes in all colors. And the OP can only speak on these peoples apperance and gun handling. He cannot speak about their gang status or character. Nobody here should be making comments like.

"They're people who pride themselves on being thuggish and ignorant"

. you dont know anything about them. Thats like someone seeing a white guy with cowboy boots and confederate flag shirt driving a ford 150 and saying " yeah, the redneck guy ..people like him are uneducated and dont like minorities". I understand people sterotype, but that doesnt mean its right. Also just b/c you are in a forum were people may agree with you doesnt make it right either.

 

[Caimlas]

Sans Authoritas nailed it in one. It's the culture, and it really has little to do with gun handling itself - stupidity or anything like that - but with cultural expectations.

You probably originally posted here to vent and get some pats on the back, I imagine. Though, I'm going to say this: you've got two options, here: find a different range, or talk with the people running this range and have them put some more reasonable restrictions (range officers, limit who can come/go) on the range.

I doubt anything would happen with regard to restrictions, however, as it's a public range. Really, it's time to find somewhere else to shoot if you're having freaking nightmares about the place!

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Wow, I don't see this thread heading in a constructive direction, but I still have to agree with this:

My guess is that it's less the "black" demographic and more the "city kid" demographic.

You may not be racist and I also agree that you shouldn't have to defend yourself against people calling you so, but your OP did not help matters the way you phrased things.

 

[scythefwd]

Kestac,
I spent a couple of years there in Agusta. You may be seeing a higher stupidity level out of one color because it is more prevalent there. I noticed that when I was stationed there, there was a much higher percentage of the populace that was black than white or hispanic (just from casual observation). If that observation was accurate, you will encounter more idiots with guns from the ethnic majority than the minority because you have a larger sample to deal with. Remember that it is a military town, so many of the people you see at the range are probably current or ex service members. You are probably seeing the stupid behavior coming from those with no service background, which realisticly will be younger people. Take the number of people who have no service background in Augusta and you will find that a good deal of them will be young black people because that is the ethnic majority native in that city (I am not saying that if you aren't black, you can't be from Augusta, there is just a majority of the population there that is). Even if ratios are equal across the board (1/4 of the populace of all races have no service background or gun training, yes that is a rosey picture) then you will encounter more from the ethnic majority acting stupid with the gun. I would say that it isn't that because they are black, they are untrained but that because they are black (what I percieved as the majority in Agusta) you have more untrained people you have the possibility to have a chance encounter with.

 

[Soybomb]

Some of you guys need to keep in mind that you can make observations regarding race that aren't attributed to some racist voodoo. What is the hunting tradition like in the black community? How many black kids are raised with gun safety and training by their dad? How many blacks feel uncomfortable with the way they're treated at the local shop/range and are hesitant to seek out training from those guys? What drives both the new black and white gun owner to seek their first gun? Does the cause influence what their training will be? Noting patterns and race doesn't mean that you believe race is the cause for those patterns. It hardly seems fair that we can talk about the barriers to getting more women into shooting and enjoying it safely but we can't do the same with blacks.

The important thing is these people are at the range. We need all the shooters we can get, hopefully you and the RO's can talk them into taking some advice and learning to shoot safely and better.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

He cannot speak about their gang status or character. Nobody here should be making comments like.

Quote:
"They're people who pride themselves on being thuggish and ignorant"

you dont know anything about them. Thats like someone seeing a white guy with cowboy boots and confederate flag shirt driving a ford 150 and saying " yeah, the redneck guy ..people like him are uneducated and dont like minorities". I understand people sterotype, but that doesnt mean its right. Also just b/c you are in a forum were people may agree with you doesnt make it right either.

When you start wearing pants down to the base of your butt, various and sundry "bling," "walk" around like you've got pants down to the base of your butt, pulling them up every 10 seconds, every other word out of your mouth is "foo," or "$@%!," you've pretty well forefeited every rational expectation that someone consider you to be an intelligent, respectable, contributing member of society. No matter what color your skin is.

I've known lots of people who drive pickups, have confederate flags, and wear cowboy hats that aren't racists or ignorant. I've also met a few that are. I've met very few people who try to emulate everything about inner-city gangster culture (a culture that they themselves often identify with being "black") yet remain upright, good people.

I've also experienced very little trouble from goths at gun ranges. I don't particuarly respect their views or tastes qua classic "goths," they're better firearm handlers than "thugz," and generally do not like to make criminal enterprise a major part of their lives. Again, problems do not flow from the color of skin. It flows from how a great majority of those who happen to be of a particular race choose to present themselves, and consider it part of being "black" to engage in such behaviors.


-Sans Authoritas

 

[W.E.G.]

Admonish the offender.

Report it to the RSO.

Determine whether you stay, or leave-and-never-come-back, based on the actions of the RSO.

I love going shooting.

I hate getting shot.

The comments about race add nothing to your post.
Most people have a pretty good radar for "shaky" people, no matter what their ethnicity.

I've been privy to quite a few gun accidents.
Let me assure you, they come in all flavors.

I prevented one just this week.
The guy could have passed for Elmer Fudd's grandfather.
I could tell he was shaky, and it had nothing to do with ethnicity.

 

[Don Lu]

other word out of your mouth is "foo," or "$@%!," you've pretty well forefeited every rational expectation that someone consider you to be an intelligent, respectable, contributing member of society.

I know many peole of all colors who use slang and swear. I would imagine that you do to. Is this really how you view people ? Do you reduce people to what they wear and how they look. The people you run into at a range are most certainly not gang memers or even true thugs. At the ranges I go to you have to submit your drivers liscence. a true Thug/criminal/Gangster is not gonna surrender their ID in an establishment that houses guns(a place they are probably forbidden from going to if they are in fact thugs and gansters). they may be uneducated in the basics of firearm saftey but that should not constitute a question of the character of the individual.

Again, problems do not flow from the color of skin. It flows from how a great majority of those who happen to be of a particular race choose to present themselves, and consider it "black" to do engage in particular behaviors.

So you really feel that black people are a race of people in which a majority of the people engage in problematic behavior ? or are you just saying most problematic people tend to be black...either way its incorrect, im just wondering which one you meant.

 

[Caimlas]

"They're people who pride themselves on being thuggish and ignorant"

. you dont know anything about them. Thats like someone seeing a white guy with cowboy boots and confederate flag shirt driving a ford 150 and saying " yeah, the redneck guy ..people like him are uneducated and dont like minorities". I understand people sterotype, but that doesnt mean its right. Also just b/c you are in a forum were people may agree with you doesnt make it right either.

Er, what?

What, exactly, would you consider "thuggish and ignorant" behavior? Do they need to hold their guns sideways to qualify? In my mind, irresponsible and brazen firearm handling qualifies nicely.

And if they're wearing gang colors/clothes which conform with "popular black culture", I think the descriptors are all the more appropriate. Wear a mullet and ACDC shirt, you're going to be classified as a redneck/white trash. Wear a cowboy hat and boots, and you're going to be considered a hick/redneck. Wear a suit and tie, and you're going to be considered a rich, pretentious capitalist.

 

[Don Lu]

What, exactly, would you consider "thuggish and ignorant" behavior?

I actually agree that it was ignorant behavior. but re-read and understand what I was responding to.

They're people who pride themselves on being thuggish and ignorant

this is a statment you cannot make accuratley if you dont know anything about someone besides the fact that they did not observe the 4 rules.

Wear a mullet and ACDC shirt, you're going to be classified as a redneck/white trash. Wear a cowboy hat and boots, and you're going to be considered a hick/redneck. Wear a suit and tie, and you're going to be considered a rich, pretentious capitalist.

does that mean they would be right in their assumptions of the individuals above ?

I have learned that when someone has their mind made up on most anything it serves no purpose to try to rationalize with them using logic. Most times, logic will not win over what we have been raised to believe and accept. If you believe cowboy hats make someone a hick, mullets make you white trash and suits mean somone is rich..and you are okay with that. I have nothing else to add to this thread.

good day ....

 

[Caimlas]

So you really feel that black people are a race of people in which a majority of the people engage in problematic behavior ? or are you just saying most problematic people tend to be black...either way its incorrect, im just wondering which one you meant.

Actually, the second one is mostly correct, if crime statistics mean anything at all. And it can safely (or at least technically accurately) be said that, per capita, more black people are "socially problematic" than white.

 

[crushbup]

Augusta is just over 50% black. It's not that a disproportionate number of blacks unsafely handle guns, it's that because Augusta is mostly black, you are more likely to see a black mishandling a gun for whatever reason at a range. It has nothing to do with race, just demographics and culture.

Edit: Wow, I have no idea how I read the entire thread as "Atlanta" by mistake. I have corrected my above statistic.

 

[justin 561]

Why doesn't that range have a sign that says "No concealed or loaded weapon until on range"? Every range around here has one, they make you have the slide/bolt locked back, no mag in weapon, or be encased. Color has nothing to do with range stupidity. There are plenty of White, Black, Brown, Tan fellows out there who buy guns and bring them to the range with little or no information about gun safety, matter fact, I don't even think they have "Safety" in their vocab. As far as the way someone looks will determine how they act or shoot, if they had military training will determine their ignorance is fallacy. Theres plenty of ex. military types (of all colors) who dress "gangster." So when they walk into your range, And their white, do you assume they don't know how to shoot? Or is it just the Black ones? It sounds like you have more problems then they.