Another "safe" question

[Warners]

Okay guys....I've been doing some research because my cheapo 10 gun "locker" is filled to capacity. I was thinking about buying a used "safe" (I found a decent browning safe that's about 20 years old that they seller wanted $800 for). After doing a little research though, it sure seems that these "safes" are fairly easy for an experienced thief to get into if they wanted to. And it seem that the average "crack head" type thief will be thwarted by almost anything with a lock. So is there really a need for anything in between? My guess is probably not. So I've cleared a spot in my basement in preparation for building a hardened "closet" of sorts. I'm thinking about using a steel exterior entry door with a deadbolt and building the walls in a "hardened" manner....not exactly sure what that means yet, but something more than just studs and drywall. I figure that whatever I build will be at least as theft resistant (and a LOT larger!) than what I'm using now. And less conspicuous, too.

What do you guys think?

Warner

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I hope you have a really dry basement or a really good de-humidifier.

I would think you would be "safer" to invest in a good quality gun safe with a fire rating for 2 hrs or more so you could keep paper documents in it also.

Just bolt it to the floor in a bedroom or closet.

Check out the "Patriot Safe Co." They are well thought out and the electronic lock is subperb.

 

[Warners]

I hope you have a really dry basement or a really good de-humidifier.

I would think you would be "safer" to invest in a good quality gun safe with a fire rating for 2 hrs or more so you could keep paper documents in it also.

Just bolt it to the floor in a bedroom or closet.

Check out the "Patriot Safe Co." They are well thought out and the electronic lock is subperb.

Actually, I have a humidity gauge on floor right where my "locker" is now, (which is the same area that I'd build the "closet" in) and the humidity stays at or below 40% year round, so humidity is not really an issue.

The real question is, what do you consider a "good quality gun safe" and how much would that cost? Based on what I've seen, even the "safes" that cost over a grand aren't really that difficult (for a professional) to defeat. So my real question is, what does an expensive "safe" (over a grand) buy me that building a hardened "closet" does not buy me? I don't think it would be too difficult to make this closet relatively fire-safe as the back and side walls are both either concrete or brick, and I could use even cheap materials (cement blocks covered by drywall) and end up with a structure that's fairly fire resistant. Certainly more-so than what they are currently stored in. It's not like I have a huge or expensive collection of guns, either. I could replace all of them for a under 5 grand for sure. I'm just trying to define the reality of what my different options are. A safe good enough to stop a professional for any length of time would be quite expensive, and a structure that I could fabricate myself (which would be much larger as well) would be capable of stopping the smash-and-grab types just as well and give me a LOT more storage space and options. I'm thinking the "closet" would measure about 5 feet wide, by 6 feet tall, by 4 feet deep. Soooo...

Warner

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Sounds like you may have a good start as far as good ideas for what you need. As far as a steel door goes, if you could find a steel one that is from an old office building that has the fire rated label it would be your best choice. The industrial rated doors are really heavy built.

Most of these fire rated doors are filled with drywall and would offer the most fire resistence. Where I work we have given several of these doors away to get rid of them due to tearing out a section during remodeling.

They would offer the most security also for what you are going to build.

Most steel entry doors for a residential home (if that's what you are planning on using) are still wooden core doors. They are called steel clad.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Warners]

Sounds like you may have a good start as far as good ideas for what you need. As far as a steel door goes, if you could find a steel one that is from an old office building that has the fire rated label it would be your best choice. The industrial rated doors are really heavy built.

Most of these fire rated doors are filled with drywall and would offer the most fire resistence. Where I work we have given several of these doors away to get rid of them due to tearing out a section during remodeling.

They would offer the most security also for what you are going to build.

Most steel entry doors for a residential home (if that's what you are planning on using) are still wooden core doors. They are called steel clad.

Good luck with your project.

Yeah, I'd love to find one of those doors. The rest of it I can piece together I think. I'll have to start thinking of sources. What type of hinges to they use? In thinking about this, it seem that the door would either have to open IN, or else the hinges would be exposed on the outside. Am I missing something or am I correct about that? To answer your question...yeah, I WAS thinking about one of the residential doors..the steel clad ones. I know...not great....I'd MUCH rather find one of the doors you are talking about.

Thanks for the input and responses,

Warner

 

[tightgroup tiger]

If you know anyone that works as maintenance in a factory, they could probably get you one on the cheap or for free. Most of the ones I dealt with had the steel door frames still mounted on them and they would be easy for you to hang.

We just threw out 3 of them 2 months ago complete with the door frames and hardware, we had to clean out and get rid of two shipping containers full of old machinery and junk. You are like me, never in the right place at the right time.

I think you are right about the hinge side of the door but I can't get that through my mind right now.

your room would be built like a "panic room" to hide in like expensive houses have. They typically have a concrete ceiling in them for security and fire protection. I'm not sure how you would attack that one.

 

[Warners]

If you know anyone that works as maintenance in a factory, they could probably get you one on the cheap or for free. Most of the ones I dealt with had the steel door frames still mounted on them and they would be easy for you to hang.

We just threw out 3 of them 2 months ago complete with the door frames and hardware, we had to clean out and get rid of two shipping containers full of old machinery and junk. You are like me, never in the right place at the right time.

I think you are right about the hinge side of the door but I can't get that through my mind right now.

your room would be built like a "panic room" to hide in like expensive houses have. They typically have a concrete ceiling in them for security and fire protection. I'm not sure how you would attack that one.

Yeah...the ceiling is definitely the tougher part of the equation. Especially since I have a piece of duct-work that would mean at least the back half of the closet could only be about 6 feet tall. I could do a two-height ceiling so that I can use a full height door, but it does add a little complexity to the project and MIGHT mean the door can't open in....I'll have to do some measuring to see.....


Warner

 

[Warners]

It's looking like IF I do this (and I think I will), I'll end up with cement block walls (on the 2 walls that I'd need to build....the back wall is the foundation of my home, and the one side wall is all brick, so I wouldn't do anything with that.

As far as the "ceiling", I will probably use 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood under 2 layers of cement board (for fire resistance). Once I build the walls, I can simply bolt some pieces of angle iron onto the inside walls and then slide the assembled (or individual) ceiling pieces onto the angle iron and screw it together from the inside.

I think a steel door (fire rated) makes the most sense....with the steel frame that gets mortared right onto the cement blocks. If purchased new, the door would certainly be the most expensive part of the project.


Warner

 

[rdsmith3]

Are you sure that your basement will never, ever flood even with a "once a century" type storm?

 

[a1abdj]

Are you sure that your basement will never, ever flood even with a "once a century" type storm?

Or during a fire. If your basement is not a walk out, and you have a fire, the fire department will be putting more water into the house than the drains will be able to keep up with.

 

[rdsmith3]

Good point. I live in NJ and we have been through so much this past year that I no longer think, "Oh, that will never happen." We had a tornado pass by, earthquake tremors, and a hurricane that left 14" of water in my basement (and I live at 1,200' elevation).

 

[Warners]

Well obviously, anything can happen, right? If my house floods, I'll have more to worry about that my small collection of guns. I DO plan on mounting them up on the wall of my "closet" though, so the water would have to be a few feet deep before it got to the height of the guns. My existing "locker" is on my basement floor as is, so I'd not be in any worse shape that I am now. It's impossible to cover EVERY possibility, but having a concrete room that's 4 feet by 5 feet is much better than having a tiny metal locker. I stopped by a local resale shop that has building materials...all donated...run by habitat for humanity. Anyway, they didn't have any steel doors (the good fire type I mean), which was no surprise. They DID have some cinder blocks though...unfortunately there were only 6 of them, where I need about 50 or 60 of them for my project. When I asked the guy how much they were, he said, "10 cents a piece". WOW....too bad they didn't have as many as I needed! So anyway I got the 6 of them for 65 cents. The local hardware stores here sell them for $4 - $5 a piece. I'll keep checking back, as they get regular donations so who knows.....

Warner

 

[Warners]

A change of plans...

I've been struggling with my plans for my "closet" build lately. Building the walls, and even the ceiling wasn't that difficult to grasp. Where I was drawing a blank over and over was how to build or modify the door, as I was limited to a total height for the "closet" of about 6 foot 4 inches tall. That meant either building or modifying a door. Not a fun thought. Then, while looking through the Black Friday ads in the Sunday paper, I found a really great deal on a safe at Menards. It's a lower end safe by Safari safe company, which is really Cannon safe company. It's listed as a 28 gun safe and has an electronic lock and a 30 minute fire rating at 1200 degrees. MUCH better than my little metal locker that I had everything in. What made it irresistable was the price. The cheapest I could find the same safe for was $775 plus shipping. Comparable safes from Cabelas are $900. Menards was offering it for $400. I think I'd spend more than that on the DOOR of my "closet". So I bought one for $430 including tax, then rented the Menards pickup truck and applicance dolly (total of $30 rental fees) and brought it home. Good think I have a super strong 18 and 16 year old son at home....because moving this thing down the basement stairs was TOUGH, and would have been impossible without the boys! Here are a coupld photos of it - I haven't bolted it down yet and I might organize it differently...

Warner

 

[heeler]

Ahh yes,good old black Friday....Uhh..Just a suggestion but that top shelf might need just a little support.

 

[Warners]

Ahh yes,good old black Friday....Uhh..Just a suggestion but that top shelf might need just a little support.

You know....it actually feels pretty sturdy, but since I have two shelves left over I could cut a strip from one and put it in the center underneath that top shelf. One thing that I think I'll do for sure is put all my guns back into their bore-store bags. I like the way they all display in the safe an all, but I'd feel much better about rust protection with the guns in the bags.....

Warner