FPrice
Member
There is courage, arrogance, and wisdom.
Anti-CCW business and sheriff hassles in Ohio
- Thread starter Turtle Club
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There is courage, arrogance, and wisdom.
rock jock
Member
If you have something to say, just say it.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
OK. Before anybody gets their nose out of joint...
In Ohio it is a crime to carry in an establishment that has conspicuously posted that it is forbidden. There is no specified sign (a la "30.06"). This is not an "It is a trespass if you don't leave" thing. It is a crime. It only affects CHL licensees. Not just in that criminals don't pay attention to signs, but that if a non-licensee carries concealed (a crime), it is no greater crime or additional crime if they carry in a "No Guns" establishment. The law expressly only affects CHL holders.
Technically, Ohio is an open carry state. In fact, you are require to open carry (or lock it up) while in a motor vehicle.
Both of these things are markedly different from Texas law. Until 18 months ago, Ohio had been a "no CCW at all" state for many, many generations.
Arguments - discussions - debates. No one said he was yelling and screaming. (At least he didn't say that.) I am an attorney. I argue for a living. I don't yell and am not driven by emotion when I do so. DON"T READ SO MUCH INTO HIS SAYING THAT HE "HAS ARGUMENTS" WITH IGNORANT STORE MANAGERS. :banghead:
My advice to the original poster: Don't file a lawsuit when a phone call would take care of it. Try the soft touch first. Escalate only as required in response to your inquiries.
And if they have NO GUNS on their "welcome mat," exactly who are they welcoming?
In Ohio it is a crime to carry in an establishment that has conspicuously posted that it is forbidden. There is no specified sign (a la "30.06"). This is not an "It is a trespass if you don't leave" thing. It is a crime. It only affects CHL licensees. Not just in that criminals don't pay attention to signs, but that if a non-licensee carries concealed (a crime), it is no greater crime or additional crime if they carry in a "No Guns" establishment. The law expressly only affects CHL holders.
Technically, Ohio is an open carry state. In fact, you are require to open carry (or lock it up) while in a motor vehicle.
Both of these things are markedly different from Texas law. Until 18 months ago, Ohio had been a "no CCW at all" state for many, many generations.
Arguments - discussions - debates. No one said he was yelling and screaming. (At least he didn't say that.) I am an attorney. I argue for a living. I don't yell and am not driven by emotion when I do so. DON"T READ SO MUCH INTO HIS SAYING THAT HE "HAS ARGUMENTS" WITH IGNORANT STORE MANAGERS. :banghead:
My advice to the original poster: Don't file a lawsuit when a phone call would take care of it. Try the soft touch first. Escalate only as required in response to your inquiries.
And if they have NO GUNS on their "welcome mat," exactly who are they welcoming?
For myself, I read nothing into it at all. I just asked him to clarify how this comes to happen. I believe that there is nothing inappropriate in any way in asking a poster to further clarify something they have written. Do you?
Oh, and by the way, no need to shout.
HankB
Member
I'll assume the whole incident went down exactly as stated . . .
At the minimum, file a complaint with the police department's Internal Affairs unit and report theft by cop. Whether they act on it or not, making a formal complaint ought to at least make it into the crooked cop's jacket (and he IS a crook, he DID rob you) which may cause him problems in the future when he robs another citizen.
At the minimum, file a complaint with the police department's Internal Affairs unit and report theft by cop. Whether they act on it or not, making a formal complaint ought to at least make it into the crooked cop's jacket (and he IS a crook, he DID rob you) which may cause him problems in the future when he robs another citizen.
Turtle Club
member
I was not argumentative with the LEO's. I was polite and calm. Hell I didnt want my a** slamed to the ground or worst SHOT. I wasnt rude or argmentative to the merchant either.
You are right. My verbage was not the most thought out. I dont take it to the point of yelling and screaming. Also, if a store has a conspicously posted sign at the entrance, I am happy to comply. I go to my car and lock it up. However, what urks me is when there is not sign posted at the entrance but they have a sight say at the cash register, in my case.
At this point, its too late, I am already leaving. So why post a sign at basicly the exiting area of the store, advising of their inent when the customer is leavig anyway. Thats great. I'll keep it in mind for next time. But what about this time?
My point about the comment is that, I simply bring up the fact that they should conspicously post the sign in a noticable spot at the entrance. Where a rassional reasonable person would see it.
Most of the time they thank me for pointing the fact out. However, the stubborn people will say it doesnt matter if its postage on the receipt, *acctualy had that before too*, once notification is given, then the CCW Permit holder must obide. That is agreed on my part as well.
All I want is a conspicously posted sign and I am happy.
You are right. My verbage was not the most thought out. I dont take it to the point of yelling and screaming. Also, if a store has a conspicously posted sign at the entrance, I am happy to comply. I go to my car and lock it up. However, what urks me is when there is not sign posted at the entrance but they have a sight say at the cash register, in my case.
At this point, its too late, I am already leaving. So why post a sign at basicly the exiting area of the store, advising of their inent when the customer is leavig anyway. Thats great. I'll keep it in mind for next time. But what about this time?
My point about the comment is that, I simply bring up the fact that they should conspicously post the sign in a noticable spot at the entrance. Where a rassional reasonable person would see it.
Most of the time they thank me for pointing the fact out. However, the stubborn people will say it doesnt matter if its postage on the receipt, *acctualy had that before too*, once notification is given, then the CCW Permit holder must obide. That is agreed on my part as well.
All I want is a conspicously posted sign and I am happy.
I learn something new every day guy - that's why I ask questions .
If one has to be concerned about things like, being thumped to the ground or arrested , or having your legal rights taken from you , or needing a lawyer if you choose to "debate" with an officer, then my point is made - We need to be scared of LEO's .
It may be wisdom for some to cower before these types of LEO's , but that says nothing much about having courage. It simply points out that we apparently must fear the consiquences if we stand up for our rights. No matter how politely it is done. What does that tell you about the direction this is taking us ?
Once again, in this case ,as stated, there was an abuse of power . The majority of LEO's are not like that. The ones that are, need to be held responssible , lest they contaminate the system.
These type's of abusive LEO's , who overstep their authority are also the type that any challenge to their control will result in an arguement as you understand it, rather than a debate as you express it.
I'm not offering a perfect solution . Simply food for thought . Perhaps asking for a supervisor to be called to the scene to answer why your property is being confiscated and your right to defend yourself is being taken away.
If something done was in fact illegal , then perhaps a sitation would be in order . But if no infraction of the law was present, then why should a citizen accept being harassed in this manner ?
TheEgg
"Please elucidate. If you are properly concealing your handgun, I need you to tell me how you end up in all these arguments?
he was open carry, which is legal. if you don't read the whole thread, then you miss some things and ask irrelevant questions.
SUE SUE SUE!!
"Please elucidate. If you are properly concealing your handgun, I need you to tell me how you end up in all these arguments?
he was open carry, which is legal. if you don't read the whole thread, then you miss some things and ask irrelevant questions.
SUE SUE SUE!!
There is not a thing wrong with my reading comprehension, thank you. Please reread the following from the original poster.
This states explicitly that he was carrying concealed and that he accidently 'flashed' his handgun. The fact that the law allows open carry was not relevant to this particular situation, I think.
I simply wanted to know how it was that he got into arguments with these merchants. He was kind enough to answer that question to my complete satisfaction (thank you for that, Turtle Club!). He was simply trying to pro-actively get them to post proper signage. No problem, good work.
Thank you, and have a nice day.
Rezin
Member
Not to mention the title of the thread is "Anti-CCW"
Anyway....
I have to admit, we in PA don't see many of those signs, and even when I do encounter them, I KNOW that them seeing my weapon is slim to none, and I'd be MORE concerned with concealment in a situation like that.
I let few people know I am packing. A few neighbors, a few friends who are also into firearms, and thats about it. Serioulsy, those who know me in "real life" MAYBE 10 people know I CCW almost all the time. I have even slightly adjusted my daily attire to better conceal. I think the concealment is the best part. We can open carry in PA, but I'd rather have the advantage.
Let NO ONE know it's there, and good heavens, don't argue with someone about it. It should be your secret, it is a tactical advantage.
I'd write the store a letter, letting the managers/owners know they lost your biz, and why. As a business owner, I HATE to lose a customer. Hit em in the pocketbook.
Look at the bright side ... you were not arrested. Personally I think you could have been, as the notice was posted at the entrance ... on the mat. That you did not look down seems to me not relevant, other than perhaps an indication you were not exactly aware of your surroundings completely ... I'm think just because someone carries is no excuse to lapse in situational awareness, or carelessness by letting the handgun be seen.
If the standard definition is open to interpretation, guess whose interpretation will be accepted ?
Be happy you got away with your gun, money and did not spend the night at city expense.
Hook686
If the standard definition is open to interpretation, guess whose interpretation will be accepted ?
Be happy you got away with your gun, money and did not spend the night at city expense.
Hook686
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