old lady new shooter
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You have some good guys in your parliament, I loved this speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5eP2BDfL-s
Anti gun consequences of Paris attack
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5eP2BDfL-s
Snejdarek
Member
Given the appalling security situation in Austria and large scale buy-out of shotguns, are there any calls for loosening of the may-issue concealed carry permitting? As far as I understand the may-issue has become essentially no-issue in the previous couple of years.
For comparison, concealed carry license exams in the Czech Republic are full until June, despite there being three times more exams open than last year. We will be probably seeing first rise in the number of CC licenses since 2000 - and that in situation when we only read about what is happening in Austria and Germany, while getting no taste of that at home.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_Czech_Republic
Good for you! Meanwhile, I read that German Greens want to ban alarm pistols and pepper sprays now that women are buying them and actually using them to defend themselves.
BTW I studied in Graz. Lovely town, lovely country that you have!
RoscoeBryant
Member
He is no member of the national Parlament anymore - got kicked out of his own party. He tried starting his own "hardcore conservative" party but failed entering the european Parlament. While he had a good position on guns, he was not very popular in most of the country (got convicted for blackmailing his colleagues, had some ridiculous political positions in the eyes of most people etc.).
This is to some extent our "dilemma" in most of Europe and especially in Austria - only the far right parties are interested in gun rights (the moderate conservatives only want to protect hunters and dont care for self defense or sport shooting), but they are often not very popular for miscellaneous reasons. So if you are into guns, many people will automatically assume, your are a right wing extremist - which makes it easy for some left wing (and in some cases also right wing) parties to demonize guns and push for new restrictions. Luckily it appears, that they are slowed down a bit this time, but like in the US they are just waiting for the next tragedy to happen to push for further restrictions.
@Snejdarek
Sadly, there are no such calls. For the past 10 years it essentially was no-issue (very few exceptions for LEOs, hunters, private security etc. depending on the good will of your provinces head of police) and since April this year, it became completely no-issue - not even LEOs with written death threats were deemed to be "in substantial danger". In the general population, people who want to carry guns are considered to be "Rambo" and crazy, therefore no party can afford to support the issue. But we will see how the situation turns out over the next 2 years - the next election will certainly produce a right wing + conservative coalition.
Yeah, the Germans in general have some ridiculous sections in their weapons law - your are not allowed to have a knife with more than a few centimeters blade length anyhwere on you or in your car, and you have to get a license to carry pepper spray.
As for czech gun laws - we all dream of something similar in Austria. I really hope, future EU-attempts on tightening gun laws will not interfere with your carry permits!
As for your country, I really enjoy hiking in the "Riesengebirge" where the (well known in Austria) childrens story of the giant Rübezahl ("Krakonoš" according to wikipedia?) takes place
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Deanimator
Member
Apparently "We don't have to protect you and we won't LET you protect yourself!" is an easier sale in Europe than the United States.
The governments there have made it abundantly clear that they simply don't care about the physical safety of their citizens, and would rather conceal immigrant involvement in violent crimes rather than either protect the victims or allow them to protect themselves.
Snejdarek
Member
Thankfully it is the complete opposite in the Czech Republic. I was actually very surprised that there were no widespread gun control calls following the Uherský Brod shooting.
The governing Social Democratic Party (leftist) has quite a few prominent pro-gun figures, which include also head of Parliament's legislative committee as well as former Supreme State Attorney - now a senator - who's direct comment to the Uherský Brod shooting went as far as saying that this shows there are not enough armed people in population as nobody shot back at the crazed gunmen, and continued that the ongoing terrorist threat in Europe (which is minimal in Czech Republic with our 5.000 strong very liberal Muslim population) makes it clear civilians should be armed to be able to defend themselves. And that before the current wave of successful DGUs in Israel.
Although many politicians prefer to talk loud about hunters and sport shooters, everyone is well aware that CCers outnumber hunters 4:1 in the country, so even if the message is hidden between the lines, they very well know who the main recipients of any of their gun-related rhetoric are.
Also the fact that about 20 - 25% of members of Parliament have CC licenses is of great help (some are rumored to carry also during the parliament's sessions).[/QUOTE]
That is just plain wrong. And who is deciding on the may issue permits? Is it policemen?
Every single policemen I talked to in the Czech Republic has been extremely supportive of civilian gun ownership. I've been told more than once "we are good at coming to crime scene and catching perp, but only after the fact."
Well, we don't have non-carry self-defense licenses like you do. It is concealed carry or nothing here. And supporting nothing as means of self defense for law abiding citizens surely won't win anyone political points, even though the general rate of firearm ownership is relatively low.
You live in democratic republic. Stop dreaming, start demanding it!
Well, it is true that if the current proposal for ban of semi-auto mean looking guns goes through we will probably not get permits to carry them any more (CC permit for AR 15 is shall issue the same as for compact pistol
). But otherwise it doesn't seem probable - also because nobody in Brussels realizes that this is actually possible here. Maybe now they got a hint when the first Czech response to the proposed Directive was that it is of utmost importance for us to keep our shall issue concealed carry.Maybe year ago I would not be so optimistic, but right now with what is happening just over the border in Germany, any politician acting against concealed carry in the Czech Republic can as well just resign and retire.
Here it is not viewed as Rambo stuff, lately more as "I am also getting the license once I have more time." [/QUOTE]
That 9cm knife law works only for Germans, maybe Austrians too.
If you are Czech untermensch, though, it will be confiscated - even if it is a tiny Victorinox. No paperwork involved, of course.
As for your country, I really enjoy hiking in the "Riesengebirge" where the (well known in Austria) childrens story of the giant Rübezahl ("Krakonoš" according to wikipedia?) takes place
It is a great place. It is quite a pickle though when you find out just before a summit that the final part of a track zig-zags Polish border and realize that CCing in Poland carries serious jail time. ... That's a typically Czech problem in Europe, be happy you can't get CC and don't need to deal with something like that
BTW, the Czech gun owner's association just had a "work lunch" with most Czech Members of European Parliament.
These are the guys who made an appeal to European public to get ready for civil disobedience and not give out assault rifles should the EU proposal be adopted.
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RoscoeBryant
Member
Yeah, but democratic also means, the many outweigh the few. And as I've said, most of the people in Austria think anyone who wants to own a firearm for self defense has seen too many Rambo or John Wayne movies or worse - is a right wing extremist who wants to murder hungarian and bulgarian burglars and lately any immigrant. You are really lucky, that you apparently don't have that mentality and left parties and many members of your parlament are pro gun or actually carry themselves. Our "gun lobby" is very active, but only has some influence on the right-wing party - so until the government changes there will be no positive development on that subject (which is really sad, because apart from some issues like guns, until 2014 the social-Democrats have been doing a quite acceptable job).
As for the "no-issue" in Austria: according to the law, it is up to your districts "Waffenreferent" (which essentially is a policeman responsible for any paperwork concerning weapons). However, there is something like a summary on how to act given to the "Waffenreferent" by the minister of interior every other year, and generally they obey that summary. Additionally, there have been some supreme court rulings on the issue in the last 2 years, which terminated the possibility to obtain a carry permit for hunters, taxi drivers and business owners who regularly carry large amounts of cash.
BTW, I really enjoyed the czech government's comments on the proposal. Most of the EU-countrys send in about 1/2 a page with some minor details they wanted to add or remove, Czech Republic sends 30 pages and heavily disagrees. Congrats on that
As for the "no-issue" in Austria: according to the law, it is up to your districts "Waffenreferent" (which essentially is a policeman responsible for any paperwork concerning weapons). However, there is something like a summary on how to act given to the "Waffenreferent" by the minister of interior every other year, and generally they obey that summary. Additionally, there have been some supreme court rulings on the issue in the last 2 years, which terminated the possibility to obtain a carry permit for hunters, taxi drivers and business owners who regularly carry large amounts of cash.
BTW, I really enjoyed the czech government's comments on the proposal. Most of the EU-countrys send in about 1/2 a page with some minor details they wanted to add or remove, Czech Republic sends 30 pages and heavily disagrees. Congrats on that
Deanimator
Member
The immigrant crime and terrorism problem is going to get WORSE not better.
When people are afraid to go out of their homes for fear of being robbed, raped or murdered, we'll see whether things change.
Those attitudes were prevalent in a lot of the United States... until people wised up and learned that whether the police WANTED to protect them (and as in Cologne, in a lot of cases they didn't WANT to) or not, they COULDN'T.
Even one of the worst states, Illinois, now has concealed carry and Chicago's handgun ban has gone the way of the Habsburg empire and the Anschluss.
RoscoeBryant
Member
Thats the "problem" with living in a very safe country, that was untouched by nearly every crisis since WW II. Even in the "bad" parts of Vienna, you could walk through the streets in the middle of the night without taking a big risk. Therefore, many people tend(ed) to think, carrying a gun or even pepper spray is unnecessary and "Rambo". But as you say, this mentality is starting to change - if you visit a gunshop nowadays you will have to weit in line for some time. And even in the homecountry of the Glock, you might have to order them as they are out of stock at many gun dealers!
old lady new shooter
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How do you conceal an AR 15?
old lady new shooter
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Is this also true in the countryside?
RoscoeBryant
Member
To some extent, yes. In the countryside, about 1/4-1/2 of households (depending on the area) have at least one gun, but most of them are hunting rifles. In the 60s and early 70s in the countryside it was quite common, to leave the shotgun loaded next to your bed - but even if people are still doing that today, they never talk about it for the fear of beeing seen as a nutcase.
Snejdarek
Member
That is your own problem that the cop will not ask you when issuing the permit, simply because he has no say over it according to the law.
Otherwise, this is one of the practical options:
https://youtu.be/M-c-s1NF_t4
It really makes sense for people who have, for example, CZ Scorpion EVO 3, live in the city, and take, for example, public transportation to the out-of-town gun range (subway/bus). If they are already taking the gun, then it only makes sense to have it on ready instead of in a locked case.
Meanwhile we avoid stirring up hoplophobes as open carriers do in the US. Everyone's happy in the end and that's how it should be
Whats-his-name
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Howdo all,
Thought I'd add some links providing the facts on this sick turn of events in Europe.
This is the proposal that is to come into force on the 8th April. Click on the PDF on the right hand side.
https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/r...ba4c6a855-7F349403-FC2B-7DEE-2CFBD875259DA38D
Signing this might also send a message and help us Europeans (I doubt it but you never know), and please pass it on...
https://www.change.org/p/council-of...pt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition
The legislation even calls for the banning of some deactivated weapons (AK's, etc.) of which there must be several hundred thousand within Europe.
Someone mentioned on here that this was a communist manifesto. It's not, it's very much a fascist manifesto.
Ironically, it's a form of terrorism to deprive and alienate law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves.
I shan't say any more as I'm feeling physically sick about all this.
Thought I'd add some links providing the facts on this sick turn of events in Europe.
This is the proposal that is to come into force on the 8th April. Click on the PDF on the right hand side.
https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/r...ba4c6a855-7F349403-FC2B-7DEE-2CFBD875259DA38D
Signing this might also send a message and help us Europeans (I doubt it but you never know), and please pass it on...
https://www.change.org/p/council-of...pt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition
The legislation even calls for the banning of some deactivated weapons (AK's, etc.) of which there must be several hundred thousand within Europe.
Someone mentioned on here that this was a communist manifesto. It's not, it's very much a fascist manifesto.
Ironically, it's a form of terrorism to deprive and alienate law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves.
I shan't say any more as I'm feeling physically sick about all this.
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Snejdarek
Member
I am not sure where you came up with the idea that this proposal should come into force on 8 April. This version has been struck down both in the European Council and in the respective Committees of the European Parliament.
The ball is now on the side of the European Commission to come up with a new version of the amendment. It is quite clear that the outright semi-auto rifles ban will not go through neither the Council, nor the Parliament.
We will see what kind of "watered down" version the Commission comes up next.
Snejdarek
Member
Meanwhile in Austria - 14% of people plan to purchase a firearm for self-defense.
http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-waffenkauf-selbstschutz-6267561
Austria is one of few countries where firearms for home defense are available. Concealed carry however got severely restricted during past two decades.
http://www.profil.at/oesterreich/umfrage-waffenkauf-selbstschutz-6267561
Austria is one of few countries where firearms for home defense are available. Concealed carry however got severely restricted during past two decades.
vito
Member
The "infringement" of Federal laws on fully automatic weapons is such that for all practical purposes these guns are banned. Not recognizing that is like saying that states with "may issue" concealed carry permits/licenses are pro-gun and pro-Amendment states. In NY for example, it is possible to get a concealed carry permit if you live outside of the five counties of New York City, and are willing to pay the right people and jump through the regulatory hoops, but it is nothing like living in a "shall issue" state where meeting straightforward rules will actually result in getting a license. And of course, in NYC, only the very well connected can get such a permit, the very opposite of what should be the case in a free nation.
Snejdarek
Member
You are talking about pre-1986 guns, right?
dragon813gt
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No they aren't. I can buy one anytime I want. They happen to be more than most are willing to pay. And you have to wait for a tax stamp to take possession of one. But they aren't banned. They may be out of reach financially for some but this doesn't mean they are banned.
Whats-his-name
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Thanks for correcting me Snejdarek. I rechecked my source and it was outdated. Good to know the 'first draft' was chucked out.
Good for them.
Tommygunn
Member
Ones made after 1986 are, thanks to the GOPA.
dragon813gt
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I am aware that the registry is closed. That doesn't mean you can't buy one. It means the supply is limited. I'm all for repealing the NFA and the GCAs.
Snejdarek
Member
Well given that it is three decades after FOPA got into force...
If you want to argue that select-fire guns are available in the US notwithstanding the red tape and price involved, then let me correct you: historical select-fire firearms are available in the US.
Tommygunn
Member
I'm not sure we're not talking past each other.
You can buy a FA gun if it was made in 1981 and is registered. Maybe the supply is limited.
You CANNOT buy one that is brand new, since the registry is closed.
Not everyone wants a classic. Some people want NIB.
Anyway I'm glad you're in favor of repealing those unConstitutional laws.
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