Anti-Gun Thought Patterns

[theotherwaldo]

Bottom line:
The ability to own and carry weapons is the ability to say "no".
Politicians, fascists, socialists and other absolutists don't like people to be able to tell them "no".
Thus, they insist that people should not be able to own and carry weapons.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

^^^
Well said.

 

[fireside44]

As we have said, many times, an AWB is mocked as you will not comply. It is pointed out that long arms are hidden in Europe. However, we have also pointed out that a gun buried in your basement is useless except for a civilization crash.
Can't compete, can't hunt, can't use in self-defense, risk of being turned in by ex, blabbing kids or neighbor, accidental discovery by the firemen, plumbers, legal risks to your heirs, accessory industry is taken down for civilians, children will get the message that such guns are bad, etc. Cultural shift will occur.

They buried guns and ammo in Afghanistan and have been using them for decades, no civilization crash to speak of. Very tough to enforce things like hunting and illegal shooting in rural areas. TX being the size of afghanistan comes to mind. So do the "no shooting" signs that are inevitably full of holes unless they were set up this morning.

Europeans complied or just shoveled and shut up, tribal afghans didn't. You can't really with certainty say what Americans would do if the left think they will pull a buyback, among other society changing policies they would like to institute in the same time frame. They might offend someone. Europeans strike me as more passive, and trusting of their governing systems. Americans aren't like that to the same degree IMO.

 

[theotherwaldo]

-You can't meaningfully compare a tribal area like Afghanistan to non-tribal nations like those of Europe.
Tribal areas are actually truly tribal. Some groups may claim to represent and rule the entire area but their authority ends at the edge of the land claimed by a different tribe.
If a tribal leader says that it is time to hide the guns then it is time to hide the guns, regardless of what the "central" government orders.
Likewise, when the tribal leaders say that it's time to dig up the guns and use them, that's what happens.

Europe has, by and large, lost its tribal heritages. They are more likely to follow the diktats of whoever is in charge.

I'm trying to decide whether or not America is becoming MORE tribal... .

 

[GEM]

Afghanistan is not a civilization by our terms. There are game wardens in TX and in many states, you have to register taken animals. So saying you will scurry around with your illegal gun doesn't impress me.

There are certainly unregistered fully auto guns around. Haven't seen them on the range or heard them when I was sitting in a blind in the Hill Country.

It was better to get rid of prohibition than drink bath tube gin.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

"Thought Pattern"...……..

The only thoughts I think the anti gun representatives and candidates have is "control". And the voters that support them aren't thinking at all, they are reacting out of fear to sensationalized media.

 

[GEM]

I hate to be disagreeable but reacting to sensationalized media really doesn't help us. They are reacting to some awful events. Two things:

1. The media does play them up, and antigun folks run around. However, don't ignore that the fear was generated by real events, not fake ones.
You have to argue why the RKBA is important despite the real bad events.
2. Folks will downplay the rampages by saying they are just a small part of gun violence, so no action need be taken. I can dissect why that is a double edged sword but busy now with my own life.

Remember, my role is to point out why an argument that seems it would work may be because it is embedded in your already gun positive paradigm. You need to adopt a Red Team approach (what does your opponent think and do) and a Theory of Mind (cog psych - of understanding the thought processes of the other person without prejudice and cliches). For example, they want socialism - that is common on forums. Doesn't really do any good and it is probably not the motivation.

 

[larryh1108]

I truly believe that those sheep who oppose guns, because their leaders say they are bad or because they know someone who knew someone who was killed by a gun (not a person, mind you, but a gun), believe that an all out ban of all guns will stop the senseless deaths and killings. I believe that they believe that an all out ban will remove every gun from our country because their government said they are banned. I think they believe that murders, mass murders and suicide with guns will miraculously stop because our government said that guns are now illegal to own. I truly believe that a vast majority of anti-gun people feel this way.

Of course, they are dead wrong. Criminals will be the only ones who would armed because the law-abiding Americans will turn in their guns (in theory). Murders will still happen, mass killings will still occur and suicide will still happen. When they realize that it isn't the gun but the evil behind them, it will be too late. They are wrong. They will be dead wrong. I believe that violent crime would increase a lot because the criminal element won't be as fearful of someone owning a gun as they may be today. You want to see the Wild West return to the streets? Ban guns. That will bring out the truly bad people en masse.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I hate to be disagreeable but reacting to sensationalized media really doesn't help us. They are reacting to some awful events. Two things:

1. The media does play them up, and antigun folks run around. However, don't ignore that the fear was generated by real events, not fake ones.
You have to argue why the RKBA is important despite the real bad events.

2. Folks will downplay the rampages by saying they are just a small part of gun violence, so no action need be taken. I can dissect why that is a double edged sword but busy now with my own life.

Remember, my role is to point out why an argument that seems it would work may be because it is embedded in your already gun positive paradigm. You need to adopt a Red Team approach (what does your opponent think and do) and a Theory of Mind (cog psych - of understanding the thought processes of the other person without prejudice and cliches). For example, they want socialism - that is common on forums. Doesn't really do any good and it is probably not the motivation.

That's fair enough, bad things do happen and I don't want to give the impression they haven't or don't. To do so would be disrespectful to every person who has been killed in a gun related act of violence.

Personally I think gun violence in general is blown out of proportion because suicides are included in the stats. I wish that were different so we could see the real numbers.

My reaction is based personal interactions with antigun folks, and those particular people's inability to get past fears that I feel are enhanced by media coverage, which then causes a total inability to have a logical and calm dialogue. I remain calm as much as I can, and try to speak logically with them when they start telling me I shouldn't own a particular rifle. It happens more than I care for. However, you are right. I can't assume all antigun folks are simply reacting out of fear and with no logic, as that is the same type of assumption many of them would make about us. And then we get nowhere.

 

[GEM]

I agree. I try to present a rationale for owning our present array of guns. The suicide and gun violence (sometimes it's parsed into the rampages vs. the urban crime vs. the domestic) mantra takes another approach. Suicide prevention leads to a discussion of red flag laws and waiting periods vs. the utility of such in actually preventing the bad gun usage. That is another long discussion. I was once driving with a real estate agent, looking for a house, we went past a gun club and I said: OH, look. She said her brother was killed in a hunting accident. It wasn't time for a three cheers for the RKBA argument.

Go to go - real life trumps the internet.

By the way, I'm back. Calling people 'sheep' isn't really impressive. A mother who worries that her kid will be shot at school isn't a sheep. She may be wrong about how to deal with her concerns but let's drop the gun world virtue signaling. It doesn't help.

 

[AlexanderA]

Europeans strike me as more passive, and trusting of their governing systems.

Europe has, by and large, lost its tribal heritages. They are more likely to follow the diktats of whoever is in charge.

It depends on what part of Europe. Eastern and southern Europeans are deeply distrustful of government, because of their long history of corrupt and/or tyrannical rule.

Northern and western Europeans tend to take their laws -- especially gun laws -- more seriously than the southerners and easterners do. In Greece, which is both southern and eastern European, people pay lip service to laws and then turn around and do whatever they like. They don't confront -- they sidestep.

Speaking of tribalism, the Balkans provide the very definition of the term. America is quickly getting there, but the "tribes" are ideological rather than ethnic.

 

[Deanimator]

Bottom line:
The ability to own and carry weapons is the ability to say "no".
Politicians, fascists, socialists and other absolutists don't like people to be able to tell them "no".
Thus, they insist that people should not be able to own and carry weapons.

As I've said, virtually EVERY Democrat candidate for President and the woman setting the party's agenda are PROMISING to impose upon the people of the United States a combination of:

• the Holodomor
• Hitler's "Hunger Plan" for Eastern Europe
• Mao's "Great Leap Forward"
• Pol Pot's "Year Zero"

You simply can't shove that down people's throats without a monopoly on the means of armed force.

 

[fireside44]

Afghanistan is not a civilization by our terms. There are game wardens in TX and in many states, you have to register taken animals.So saying you will scurry around with your illegal gun doesn't impress me.

Lol, wut? Game wardens are responsible for impossibly large areas and are a deterrent to poaching, not a preventative. Unrealistic if you think they, or anyone else, could put a full stop to illegal hunting and shooting and clandestine gun use in more rural areas during a buyback situation. That inner city criminals illegally fire weapons in many places at night and are never caught shows just how much of a dragnet the authorities really can muster. If more jews in the ghettos of germany had buried guns and gotten busy scurrying around with them things might've played out more favorably, even if it were marginally so.

 

[SharpDog]

10 Things You Should Know About Prohibition:

1. Prohibition had been tried before.
2. World War I helped turn the nation in favor of Prohibition.
3. It wasn’t illegal to drink alcohol during Prohibition.
4. Some states refused to enforce Prohibition.
5. Drug stores continued selling alcohol as “medicine.”
6. Winemakers and brewers found creative ways to stay afloat.
7. Thousands died from drinking tainted liquor.
8. The Great Depression helped fuel calls for a repeal.
9. Drinking decreased during Prohibition.
10. It continues in some parts of the country to this day.

https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-should-know-about-prohibition