ANTI GUNNERS AT CONCEALED CARRY CLASS
- Thread starter johnny blaze
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darjo
Member
I think I am gonna use this as my sig.
Funny stuff.
GhostRider66
Member
Just don't get caught because if they do, they might call security and ask you to leave. And then everyone will see you being escorted out and you'll be all embarrassed....
XLMiguel
Member
"Right to lifers" ain't exactly left wing. Extreamists of any stripe seem to have their own dose of hypocracy. It isn't the cause, it's about "control". Ve know vhat's goot for you . . .
scooterthegreat
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Just for grins and giggles out of shear boredom, I googled to see if I could find anything reported about this on the web. Just because I didn't find anything I'm not saying that it didn't happen. But with everything else I found (No, I don't believe everything posted on the web), I wouldn't be surprized to find this incident to be true.
I did come across some interesting stories about dealers finding live rounds in firearms at gun shows. Way to many links to post, would lead to clicky linky convulsions...
Also found quite a few reports of police training exercises gone wrong. Somehow, live ammo got mixed in with the dummy or marking rounds. I will linky to the most recent: http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?id=29083&siteSection=1
I did come across some interesting stories about dealers finding live rounds in firearms at gun shows. Way to many links to post, would lead to clicky linky convulsions...
Also found quite a few reports of police training exercises gone wrong. Somehow, live ammo got mixed in with the dummy or marking rounds. I will linky to the most recent: http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?id=29083&siteSection=1
Smashing thier face in is the result of an attempt to apply a pressure point control technique to gain control and render the perpitrator a non-threat.
Almost all of the effective pressure points are in the head/neck reigon. The mandible and lower ear are most effective.. there also a good one for the nose.... but hard to apply from the front.
Now in ANY situation the controllee can move, or attempt to resist the control technique.... resulting in unintended injury.
Didn't EVERYONE learn that at the Correcetions Officer Academy? hehehehe I did, and I have
Since pressure point controls are almost at the bottom of the Force Continium (even lower than actually hitting someone) I'm sure that and DA would agree that you used the LEAST amount of force to resolve/contain the situation till five-oh arrived.
Almost all of the effective pressure points are in the head/neck reigon. The mandible and lower ear are most effective.. there also a good one for the nose.... but hard to apply from the front.
Now in ANY situation the controllee can move, or attempt to resist the control technique.... resulting in unintended injury.
Didn't EVERYONE learn that at the Correcetions Officer Academy? hehehehe I did, and I have
Since pressure point controls are almost at the bottom of the Force Continium (even lower than actually hitting someone) I'm sure that and DA would agree that you used the LEAST amount of force to resolve/contain the situation till five-oh arrived.
I was at a gun show in Colorado Springs when a "rigged gun" went off. It's not at all funny, (fontunately no one was hurt) it also shows some of the pieces of human waste that populate the anti-gun movement. :banghead: :banghead:
Hope those folks got mugged on the way home. I have no sympathy for these turds.
I'm really suprised that they couldn't charge them with anything.. Attempted murder would be a big one to me.
Hope those folks got mugged on the way home. I have no sympathy for these turds.
I'm really suprised that they couldn't charge them with anything.. Attempted murder would be a big one to me.
Wesker, people have positions for a variety of reasons, some good and some bad. Many anti-gun people, including me at one time, hold such views out of good, honest convictions. Many really do believe that they do what they do because it saves lives. They aren't all (or even mostly) stupid, evil or insane.
alan
Member
tellner wrote in part:
"Many anti-gun people, including me at one time, .....". I wonder re what caused your change of mind.
As to the rest of it, I'm afraid that I'd be less charitible than you, for the following reason. While it could be that I haven't run into such a situation, I've yet to see a pro gunner insist that some other person Keep and Bear Arms in the event that they had made the personal choice not to. I have also, not seen anti gunners extend the same courtesy, though it is possible that I missed something along the line.
"Many anti-gun people, including me at one time, .....". I wonder re what caused your change of mind.
As to the rest of it, I'm afraid that I'd be less charitible than you, for the following reason. While it could be that I haven't run into such a situation, I've yet to see a pro gunner insist that some other person Keep and Bear Arms in the event that they had made the personal choice not to. I have also, not seen anti gunners extend the same courtesy, though it is possible that I missed something along the line.
Oh, a number of things. First was a good friend (my first Silat teacher) who took me shooting and helped me buy a first gun (Enfield MK III) as a training exercise. Second was taking a hard look at the research and coming to believe that my opinions were not supported by the facts. Being injured and unable to run or fight effectively provided a nudge. The biggest one was probably increased familiarity. As part of the training exercise Brandt had me get a CCW and carry one of his pistols for a month. The different perspective and things I learned had a great effect.
It could be that I'm not predisposed to mistrust people whose opinions I used to share. Many of the ones I know think I'm a little strange and a lot paranoid but aren't afraid of me carrying or not and so say "It's legal, so it's your choice." Still other see the risks of widespread legal gun ownership as outweighing the benefits and do it from an honest belief that their interpretation is correct. Many have personal reasons for disliking guns that aren't hard cold logic but make a lot of sense. Personal tragedy, recognized suicidal tendencies, PTSD, bad experiences at an early age, you name it. Others have only seen guns on the hips of police, in the hands of criminals or touted by people who hate and despise them (the people, that is). It makes being gun friendly difficult.
By way of an analogy I used to love pickled herring. After eating a bad batch and having my first experience of projectile vomiting I feel a visceral revulsion and incipient nausea if I see or smell the stuff. One old girlfriend used to hunt with her father. One day he blew his brains out with the hunting rifle. Her mother raped her a couple days later. She couldn't stand guns or sex for a long, long time afterwards. Still can't be around guns. And I can't say as I blame her.
It could be that I'm not predisposed to mistrust people whose opinions I used to share. Many of the ones I know think I'm a little strange and a lot paranoid but aren't afraid of me carrying or not and so say "It's legal, so it's your choice." Still other see the risks of widespread legal gun ownership as outweighing the benefits and do it from an honest belief that their interpretation is correct. Many have personal reasons for disliking guns that aren't hard cold logic but make a lot of sense. Personal tragedy, recognized suicidal tendencies, PTSD, bad experiences at an early age, you name it. Others have only seen guns on the hips of police, in the hands of criminals or touted by people who hate and despise them (the people, that is). It makes being gun friendly difficult.
By way of an analogy I used to love pickled herring. After eating a bad batch and having my first experience of projectile vomiting I feel a visceral revulsion and incipient nausea if I see or smell the stuff. One old girlfriend used to hunt with her father. One day he blew his brains out with the hunting rifle. Her mother raped her a couple days later. She couldn't stand guns or sex for a long, long time afterwards. Still can't be around guns. And I can't say as I blame her.
For NRA classes, the rules prohibit live ammunition in the classroom. No live ammo under any circumstances. The live ammo is reserved for the firing line.
The reason for this is that live firearms are often used in the classrooms (not just on the range) as teaching tools. By prohibiting ANY live ammo, the NRA is hoping to reduce the chance of an accident in the classroom environment. (All other safety rules should still be followed obviously).
If you brought live ammo or a loaded concealed firearm into my classroom (not range) and I found out about it, and you didn't remove them when I asked, you'd be out of my class. One thing about being a NRA instructor is that I have to follow NRA regs when running my classes and the "no live ammo in the classroom" rule is one they are very adamant about.
How do you know it was a "rigged" gun? Everyone who has an accidental discharge with an "unloaded" gun swears that they didn't think it was loaded before they pulled the trigger. Obviously, that shows that people can have an AD with an "unloaded" gun without anyone maliciously "salting" unloaded guns to cause an accident.
Personally, I'm still calling it an urban legend. I'd have to know of an incident where someone was caught in the act of loading the gun AND the police were called and took a report before I'd believe it. Just hearing a second hand story where they say "The police wouldn't respond" isn't enough.
fantacmet
Member
I can see this as entirely believable. Yes I saw the argument about how nobody would do such a thing, or that the fact they won't mention what group proves it being BS, but think about it. It is entirely understandable why they wouldn't say(think LAWSUIT or even threats from said organization of a gag order or be sued). At a local shotgun range for trap, clays, and skeet, a similar incident occured. Although the person didn't belong to an antigun group, and the circumstances were a bit different but this is how it went.
Houses are about 200-300 yards away in the direction you shoot. Ammo is limited to VERY light loads, they sell the only loads allowed. At about 50 yards or so maximum the shot its the ground. There is even the boundry of how far the shot can go marked out. Interestingly enough you never see any wadding, or even bits of the clays past that point, quite the opposite it's all at least 15 yards inside that boundry. Anyway some buffoon, who had been trying to say having a shotgun range was dangerous, bought a shotgun, slipped a slug in, and shot at one of the houses. Then went and reported it to the media, stating that the people who lived there were startled when a round went through etc. The problem is the house in question luckily the family was on vacation, and the guy got found out. His whole theory was shotguns were the easiest target due to their extra lethality. Another victim of hollywood genius.
Rev. Michael
Houses are about 200-300 yards away in the direction you shoot. Ammo is limited to VERY light loads, they sell the only loads allowed. At about 50 yards or so maximum the shot its the ground. There is even the boundry of how far the shot can go marked out. Interestingly enough you never see any wadding, or even bits of the clays past that point, quite the opposite it's all at least 15 yards inside that boundry. Anyway some buffoon, who had been trying to say having a shotgun range was dangerous, bought a shotgun, slipped a slug in, and shot at one of the houses. Then went and reported it to the media, stating that the people who lived there were startled when a round went through etc. The problem is the house in question luckily the family was on vacation, and the guy got found out. His whole theory was shotguns were the easiest target due to their extra lethality. Another victim of hollywood genius.
Rev. Michael
PlayboyPenguin
member
I have no problem believing guns get "rigged" at gun shows. I do not think it is "anti-gunnies" that do it though. We all know a few gun owners in every group that we just wish were not on our side. I feel that more likely it is this kind of guy (the ones that have never seen a day of military service but wear full commando gear and a beret with their mirrored glasses) that think this kind of thing is funny. They like to know they are the ones that caused the fuss. They like making bad things happen from the sidelines then get a great deal of staisfaction when it happens.
No documentation yet. Mr. Blaze - would you respond to the request for such? If not, then the post is not really worth that much.
Ammo accidents happen. Jeff Cooper left ammo in a Scout rifle that led to an ND by another person.
Ammo accidents happen. Jeff Cooper left ammo in a Scout rifle that led to an ND by another person.
Rabid Rabbit
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- Aug 19, 2004
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- 464
We talked about this possibility when I was taking the instructors class. It sounds like somebody took the possibility as gospel and turned it into a real event.
Templar223
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- Dec 5, 2005
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Quote:
I've never had any anti-gun shills in my classes. I've had some anti-gun spouses who took the classes because their husbands took it and thought they should have it too. Without exception, they have done exceptionally well. One woman, a petite little cutie weighing about a buck oh-five was shooting her husband's HK .45 USP. Way too much gun for her and her hands. She had a malfunction on the low-light scenario we run and cleared it without hesitation, making a-zone hits on both targets before the charging "bad guy" target arrived to end the drill. Seeing that made this instructor very proud. She handled that far better than some very "experienced" guy shooters who've been through my class.
As for pointing guns at my students. No ammo means just that for my guns too. What am I supposed to point at them, a paper weight? I would consider it the height of rudeness to draw down on a student. They need guidance, not perforating. (!!)
John
Srigs
Senior Member
They should be charged with something. If that happened where I had my carry class they would have had guns pointed at them
! Senior Member
They should be charged with something. If that happened where I had my carry class they would have had guns pointed at them
I've never had any anti-gun shills in my classes. I've had some anti-gun spouses who took the classes because their husbands took it and thought they should have it too. Without exception, they have done exceptionally well. One woman, a petite little cutie weighing about a buck oh-five was shooting her husband's HK .45 USP. Way too much gun for her and her hands. She had a malfunction on the low-light scenario we run and cleared it without hesitation, making a-zone hits on both targets before the charging "bad guy" target arrived to end the drill. Seeing that made this instructor very proud. She handled that far better than some very "experienced" guy shooters who've been through my class.
As for pointing guns at my students. No ammo means just that for my guns too. What am I supposed to point at them, a paper weight? I would consider it the height of rudeness to draw down on a student. They need guidance, not perforating. (!!)
John
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
There's Somethin' Fishy Here
As much as I'd love to believe that this was simply antis acting stupid, think about it for a second. Even the stupidest person knows what a loaded gun can do. They were not planning murder. They were planning ND. If they were planninga shooting, they were also planning on getting killed, one way or another.
That being said, how do the cops not charge someone? That's crazy. Think about it! Any way, handled well overall. In the future, I think checking students a head of time might be a better idea.
As much as I'd love to believe that this was simply antis acting stupid, think about it for a second. Even the stupidest person knows what a loaded gun can do. They were not planning murder. They were planning ND. If they were planninga shooting, they were also planning on getting killed, one way or another.
That being said, how do the cops not charge someone? That's crazy. Think about it! Any way, handled well overall. In the future, I think checking students a head of time might be a better idea.
alan
Member
tellner:
Very interesting explaination and exposition.
It seems to boil down to the following, matters of personal opinion, prejudice and such as that.
One thing about "bad experiences" comes to mind though, from personal recollection. I came closer to being killed in an auto accident, than I probably care think about. I somehow, climbed, crawled out of a total wipe-out, with what turned out to be MINOR INJURIES. I never had the slightest emotional problems after that, either driving an auto myself, or riding in one. Of course, that's me, others could well be different.
Thanks again for a thoughtful reply.
Very interesting explaination and exposition.
It seems to boil down to the following, matters of personal opinion, prejudice and such as that.
One thing about "bad experiences" comes to mind though, from personal recollection. I came closer to being killed in an auto accident, than I probably care think about. I somehow, climbed, crawled out of a total wipe-out, with what turned out to be MINOR INJURIES. I never had the slightest emotional problems after that, either driving an auto myself, or riding in one. Of course, that's me, others could well be different.
Thanks again for a thoughtful reply.
Ryder
Member
Thanks for the heads up. I'll make it a point to never use an NRA instructor. Evidently I haven't yet.
Sorry but I was talking about complete and total avoidance of rules I am not in agreement with, not ignoring them as though they didn't exist as you imply. Don't take it personal. There are a great many authoratarian rules people dream up which I find easy to avoid subjecting myself to.
I would never take a firearms course from someone who deliberately and habitually violated Rule 1.
They make dummy guns for a reason.
pax
The Four Universal Rules of Gun Safety
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
4. Be sure of your target (and of the backstop behind your target).
Fire4Effect
Member
Look at the modern Nazi's. They praise and emulate Adolf Hitler, yet they conveniently choose to ignore one thing about their Furher... He commited suicide...
So maybe it happened, maybe it didn't...I believe it is possible...
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