ANTI GUNNERS AT CONCEALED CARRY CLASS

[Quaamik]

As to it being an "urban legend" or such until proven ....

Some will never believe that our enemies will stoop to such tactics. If offered examples, they will claim the examples are hearsay unless they happened to the person telling them. If they did happen to that person, they will insist on names, dates and locations. If the person provides names, dates and locations, they will then question why it wasn't reported in the news or ask for documentation (police reports / cout cases).

Having some amount of skeptisism is healthy. It prevents a person from falling for every con artist that opens thier mouth.

Having too much is the same as burying your head in the sand.

 

[Eleven Mike]

And a few years back the right to lifers in order to prove their point assanated doctors, burned and blew up business, all in the name of their cause, so just what makes anyone think the anti gunners would be any different?

"the right to lifers"? this is awfully broad-brushed, don't you think, as if these actions were endorsed by the major anti-abortion organizations? One might as well accuse the whole gun-rights movement of the actions of a few radicals.

 

[larry_minn]

Quote:
The reason for this is that live firearms are often used in the classrooms (not just on the range) as teaching tools.

I would never take a firearms course from someone who deliberately and habitually violated Rule 1.

They make dummy guns for a reason.
pax


I took a MN carry course where instructor had two (blue plastic) fake guns. Thing is he used his carry gun for examples. After dinner he took his carry gun off and put on table by fake guns to continue.
I told him to UNLOAD it. "it is" I demanded he UNLOAD IT. so he did. Yep FULLY LOADED/round in chamber. His (excuse)
"I always carry it loaded so I didn't realize it was" He was a former Deputy Sheriff and (someday with his stupidity) will give gun owners a very bad name.

 

[MechAg94]

The large Houston Gun Collector's Association gun show in Houston does not allow any ammo at all at the show. They have components but no ammo is brought in or sold. The story I always hear is they had a couple of ND's of one type or another 10 or 15 years ago and made that change. One of the stories I heard was a guy putting a round into a revolver as a "get even" thing. I don't think it was an anti-gun issue.

As for this story, never underestimate what a fanatic will do for their cause. Fanaticism is by definition not rational. Also, just about anyone can end up being fanatical about something if they let themselves.

 

[MechAg94]

I do agree that I do not like the idea of taking a course where the instructor makes a habit of pointing a gun at me. I am curious as to what purpose it serves.

 

[GEM]

Let's see some proof rather than just ranting and conjecture.

 

[Trebor]

I would never take a firearms course from someone who deliberately and habitually violated Rule 1.

Pax, did you take LFI 1 with Mas Ayoob, or I'm I thinking of someone else here? Just asking because in the LFI class I took, Mas used real guns as teaching tools on several occasions. Just wondering if it was different in your class. (Of course, if I'm thinking of someone else who took LFI 1, never mind)

Heck, even the NRA Basic Pistol course has instructors use real guns to show the difference between a single-action revolver, DA revolver and semi-automatic pistol. That and the students are supposed to show how to field strip and clean a gun, and that is a little hard to do with a "red" gun.

Hunter safety classes also routinely use real guns in a classroom setting.

There are NRA Instructors who never take a gun into a classroom setting under any circumstance. I believe that guns can be safely used as instructional tools in the clasroom as long as the safety rules are followed.

"All guns are always loaded" is actually not the "Universal Rule 1."

The Fundamental NRA Rules for Safe Gun Handling Are:

1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

There are additional NRA gun safety rules, but those are "The Big Three."

I think the NRA does not use the "Always treat a gun as if it was loaded" as a fundamental safety rule because strict adherance to that principle would prohibit using a firearm in the classroom. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Trebor]

Sorry but I was talking about complete and total avoidance of rules I am not in agreement with, not ignoring them as though they didn't exist as you imply. Don't take it personal. There are a great many authoratarian rules people dream up which I find easy to avoid subjecting myself to.

Sorry for implying that you'd willfully violate the rules instead of just avoiding the situation alltogether. That is an important distinction.

Be aware that if you ever plan to take any sort of "force on force" training, using Simmunitions or Airsoft or anything similiar, the instructors will enforce a "No guns, ammo or knives" rule to the point of patting the students down.

 

[pax]

Pax, did you take LFI 1 with Mas Ayoob, or I'm I thinking of someone else here? Just asking because in the LFI class I took, Mas used real guns as teaching tools on several occasions. Just wondering if it was different in your class. (Of course, if I'm thinking of someone else who took LFI 1, never mind)

Yes, I took LFI-1 from Mas.

In our class, he used blue dummy guns for demos in the classroom. He used real guns only for on-range demos.

He did demo reloads in the classroom. He excused himself, unloaded his firearm, and removed the slide. He thus demonstrated doing a reload with a partially disassembled weapon. I guess a gun without a barrel or slide counts as "not a gun" in my book.

I'm surprised to hear he does it differently other places.

pax

 

[Trebor]

It is interesting that he did things differently in different classes. In our class we took turns using a S&W revolver (don't know the model) with Crimson Trace laser grips to "fire" at the video screen during an old Motorola "Shoot - Don't Shoot" police training video. Mas and the student both verified that the gun was unloaded before the gun was given to the student.

We also got a chance to examine a revolver with the "Magna Trigger" safety system installed and another that had a manual safety retrofitted to the gun. In that gun the cylinder latch had to be moved "up" to engage the safety and than back "down" to take the gun off safe.

In all cases the guns were verified unloaded and proper muzzle control was stressed.

He also used just the frame of his gun for some other instruction, as in your class.

 

[pax]

*blink*

Trebor, you're right. We did fire at a TV screen too.

Forgotten all about that part of it! I mean, I remembered the scenarios on the screen, but not the mechanics of what we did with them.

I humbly proceed to eat my words ...

pax

 

[tellner]

Same as we did. I'm pretty sure there was some hidden training going on there. He was conditioning us to shoot at TV screens. Obviously, he's in some sort of secret relationship with Sony and Magnavox and gets a cut of the sale every time an LFI graduate blows out the picture tube