MTMilitiaman
Member
I can honestly say that I will be neither the guy with the gun in the bank nor the guy calling the police.
Antique guns trigger UMSL campus scare
- Thread starter Yoda
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MTMilitiaman
Member
The key word here is "potentially." I think it is a dangerous line we cross when we start charging people for crimes they may "potentially" commit.
A guy walks across campus dressed as a knight carrying a broadsword. Do you call the police?
A guy walks across campus dressed as a lumberjack carrying an axe. Police? What if it's a chainsaw?
A guy dressed as an indian walks into your lecture hall with a longbow and a quiver of arrows. SWAT team?
A guy dressed as a 1940s Brooklyn Dodger brushes against you in the hallway carrying an honest-to-God Louisville Slugger. Police? National Guard? Who should we call to deal with this menace?
Big Brother? Somebody? Anybody? Someone should care about the potential damage this man could cause if he goes berserk in a crowded hallway with this crudely effective bludgeoning instrument! He has no legitimate reason to be carrying that in public!
A guy walks across campus dressed as a knight carrying a broadsword. Do you call the police?
A guy walks across campus dressed as a lumberjack carrying an axe. Police? What if it's a chainsaw?
A guy dressed as an indian walks into your lecture hall with a longbow and a quiver of arrows. SWAT team?
A guy dressed as a 1940s Brooklyn Dodger brushes against you in the hallway carrying an honest-to-God Louisville Slugger. Police? National Guard? Who should we call to deal with this menace?
Big Brother? Somebody? Anybody? Someone should care about the potential damage this man could cause if he goes berserk in a crowded hallway with this crudely effective bludgeoning instrument! He has no legitimate reason to be carrying that in public!
Erik M
Member
Stories like this make me anxious that the stuffy private liberal arts college here will someday try to shut down the civil war re-enactments that take place in my town. It already become one of those wonderful towns where kids get sent home from 2nd grade for bringing a bright yellow stopper-gun they got from the dollar general store to class.
NavyLCDR
member
M-Cameron said:
Never lived in Alaska, have you?
whos charging anyone with anything...thats not how our legal system works.....you see someone who you feel may pose a threat...you call the police and they check it out......if the guy is innocent, they leave him be.....but if not, theyll handle it.....
i honestly find it absurd that we are even having this debate.....what would it take for you to call the police?, for someone to die.....ide rather have someone be inconvenienced for a few minutes that risk someone being shot.
NavyLCDR
member
M-Cameron said:
Answer to first question: when I see someone committing a crime.
Answer to second questions: nope. Just need to see someone committing a crime. In my state carrying a rifle, especially a muzzle loading rifle which isn't even a firearm, on a college campus or in a bank is not a crime.
I am amazed at how much of the anti-gun propaganda has perpetrated it's way into the "pro-gun" community.
MTMilitiaman
Member
Because I've been the victim of some upper-middle class yuppie soccer mom's heroic stand against gun violence. Some friends and I were on our way to go shooting and his car started leaking oil. We pulled it into a fortunately adjacent Jiffy Lube and they agreed to put it up and look under it, but said it would probably have to stay overnight. We didn't want to leave our guns in the car overnight, so we took them out of the car before the car was all raised up and inaccessible. There was a Walmart next door (which happened to be where we were going to buy some bulk 12 gauge rounds for the two 26 inch barreled M870s we were taking with us.) with a picnic table in a grassy lot between them. I watched the guns while my two friends ran to the Walmart to try call someone for help. So there we are sitting at this picnic table eating french fries from the McDonalds in the Walmart, waiting for dude's brother to get across town to pick up us, and we suddenly find ourselves surrounded by four officers with shotguns. And what should have been an already resolved minor inconvenience turns into me spread eagled on a sidewalk with my arm wrenched behind my back watching this entirely too sketched female officer get all twitchy behind a 12 gauge pointed at my temple, and an entirely far too hostile chat with officers regarding why I had dared to defile some suburbanite slobs weekly Walmart visit with the mere sight of a firearm leaning harmlessly against a picnic table with three guys eating french fries. How dare I?
While we're playing what-ifs, what if that female officer had a ND and put a round of buckshot through my skull, or the officer securing me? Are they going to make the paranoid nosy [expletive deleted] that called the cops tell my dad he's minus one son? Pin a badge on an officer forced to retire because three inches of his femur was blown six inches into a well manicured lawn? What if while all these cops interrogating my friends and I around this picnic table, a drunk driver that should have been caught by one of them elsewhere runs a red light and t-bones your wife on the way home from picking your kid up from school? "Sorry son, someone decided you never walking again was a minor inconvenience...don't ask where mommy is."
What if the SWAT team searching this school rushes this poor guy in the middle of his lecture and his 60-year old ticker decides it can't take the adrenaline? "Sorry Mrs. Professor, you're husband died needlessly...in tights."
"Potentially." See how sketch "what if" can be?
Yeah, maybe this does piss me off because you know what, the way police respond to "man with a gun" call is not something that can even euphemistically be called "inconvenienced for a few minutes ."
All the gun racks I've seen with rifles in them parked in a high school parking lot...I've never seen a school shooting. All the times I've seen people with guns in public, and I can't recall one active shooter. So no, I can't say it is worth it for me to "inconvenience" this guy because he might, maybe, potentially do something illegal.
While we're playing what-ifs, what if that female officer had a ND and put a round of buckshot through my skull, or the officer securing me? Are they going to make the paranoid nosy [expletive deleted] that called the cops tell my dad he's minus one son? Pin a badge on an officer forced to retire because three inches of his femur was blown six inches into a well manicured lawn? What if while all these cops interrogating my friends and I around this picnic table, a drunk driver that should have been caught by one of them elsewhere runs a red light and t-bones your wife on the way home from picking your kid up from school? "Sorry son, someone decided you never walking again was a minor inconvenience...don't ask where mommy is."
What if the SWAT team searching this school rushes this poor guy in the middle of his lecture and his 60-year old ticker decides it can't take the adrenaline? "Sorry Mrs. Professor, you're husband died needlessly...in tights."
"Potentially." See how sketch "what if" can be?
Yeah, maybe this does piss me off because you know what, the way police respond to "man with a gun" call is not something that can even euphemistically be called "inconvenienced for a few minutes ."
All the gun racks I've seen with rifles in them parked in a high school parking lot...I've never seen a school shooting. All the times I've seen people with guns in public, and I can't recall one active shooter. So no, I can't say it is worth it for me to "inconvenience" this guy because he might, maybe, potentially do something illegal.
NavyLCDR
member
I think a more appropriate question would be:
Were you, MTMilitiaman, really in Montana?!? Good grief!
killchain
Member
Don't take this the wrong way, but angry cop stories are almost always one-sided.
I've personally seen more than one "evil cop" story happen just because the citizen being terry stopped decided that they needed to be ultra-confrontational. Slow movements, a smile, and keeping your hands visible goes a long way to not getting racked out.
I've personally seen more than one "evil cop" story happen just because the citizen being terry stopped decided that they needed to be ultra-confrontational. Slow movements, a smile, and keeping your hands visible goes a long way to not getting racked out.
medalguy
Member
ok.....so you see a guy walk into a bank with a gun in his hand.........are you gonna call the police, or is he just exercising his second amendment right.......
Well, I happen to use this bank, and the sign on the door is legitimate. I've known the bank president for more than thirty years. Check out this story on the TSRA web site:
https://www.tsra.com/index.php?opti...id=265:chappell-hill-bank&catid=42:rokstories
I thought the Second Amendment gave me the right to bear arms at any time, anywhere. How sad it is that we have gotten to a point where someone would think that just because I happen to be exercising my constitutional right that I must be up to no good..... how sad.
Well, I happen to use this bank, and the sign on the door is legitimate. I've known the bank president for more than thirty years. Check out this story on the TSRA web site:
https://www.tsra.com/index.php?opti...id=265:chappell-hill-bank&catid=42:rokstories
I thought the Second Amendment gave me the right to bear arms at any time, anywhere. How sad it is that we have gotten to a point where someone would think that just because I happen to be exercising my constitutional right that I must be up to no good..... how sad.
hey, while you guys are at it.....walking around schools with exposed rifles.......why not walk around with ski mask on.......and put on a shirt that says "Killer" on it.........heck, your 1A right after all.
you need to realize that just because you CAN do something.....doesnt mean that you SHOULD.
you people have to understand that there is such a thing as Responsible gun ownership...........and you need to realize the many people are afraid of the mere sight of a gun...........so you know what that means you need to do......you need to do the responsible thing and keep guns out of where you cannot legally have them........and when in public, keep your gun in a case.
you need to realize that just because you CAN do something.....doesnt mean that you SHOULD.
you people have to understand that there is such a thing as Responsible gun ownership...........and you need to realize the many people are afraid of the mere sight of a gun...........so you know what that means you need to do......you need to do the responsible thing and keep guns out of where you cannot legally have them........and when in public, keep your gun in a case.
NavyLCDR
member
M-Cameron said:
It's amazing how we have gone from a professor taking antiques to a history class to ski masks and killer shirts. And you say we are the ones with the problem?
MTMilitiaman
Member
Do you really think I'd be here typing this if I had gotten "ultra-confrontational" with four cops armed with 12 gauges? How confrontational can you be sitting on a picnic table eating french fries?
Why don't you answer my questions first? This isn't an interrogation, it's a conversation. Where should we draw the line?
I work as a cashier. I had over 100 people with massive hunting knives arm's length across a counter from me in the past eight hours. Every once in a while, people try to sneak (I suppose some legitimately forget it's there) a sidearm into the store, past the bright orange sign specifically asking hunters to leave their weapons in the car. Do I panic as I stare at death in the face? No. I ask them how their morning is going, remind them that store policy requests they leave their sidearms in the car, and ask them to do so next time because the next cashier might make a bigger deal out of it. How do I muster such courage? Simple. I am a reasonable adult. I am aware of the potential danger while understanding that it is only potential danger, and likely to remain so.
Grown, mature adults do not freak out at every potential danger or problem. Such behavior is regarded as childish. If I have done nothing wrong, I should not have to hide like I am ashamed. Exercising my 2nd Amendment right does not make me a 2nd Class citizen. I refuse to hide this behavior like it is criminal because that just legitimizes it as criminal behavior in the eyes of others and, eventually, I would imagine, myself. Do you really think we should hide in the shadows to appease others? What else do you suppose we should hide because it might offend someone? Religion? Sexual orientation? Race or ethnicity?
Where in the Constitution does it guarantee your right to not be offended? Where does it guarantee your right to be ignorant and frightened? When, really, did this country become about appeasing the lowest common denominator? Probably about the time people started being ashamed of being right?
So once again, where do we draw the line? Sword in public? What if it's in a sheath? Axe? Chainsaw? Bow and arrow? Bat? Can you transfer me to the necessary department to obtain a list of all items it is legal and/or responsible for me to carry in public, or do I just ask Big Brother?
No kidding, right?
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NavyLCDR
member
MTMilitiaman said:
I must respectfully ask you this, though:
Why do you consider a person who is LAWFULLY and VISIBLY carrying a knife or firearm to be more potentially dangerous than the person who is not VISIBLY carrying a knife or firearm? Doesn't every person who walks through that door have equal possibility of carrying a knife or firearm hidden from view?
Respectfully, may I suggest that you have succumbed to the decades of propaganda pushed at us by the anti-gun groups that somehow the gun or knife by itself is suggestive of evil intent?
There was a time in this country when a gun worn on a belt was as common as a cell phone is now. The gun hasn't changed (except in technology, obviously).
Then you can argue that people have changed since then. But let me say this: that change is across the entire population. The change in people has affected the population that comes through your door openly carrying a firearm as much as it has changed the population that doesn't VISIBLY carry a gun.
Respectfully, I would argue that a perceived potential of danger just because a person LAWFULLY and VISIBLY carries a knife or a gun, when you really analyze it, is a purely emotional reaction which has no real basis in factual reality. In reality, is not a gun carried on the belt no more indicative of potential danger than a cell phone being carried on the belt? Both are just inanimate objects, and the danger comes from the person carrying them and the person not carrying one visibly is just as potentially dangerous as the person who is.
MTMilitiaman
Member
I don't. Quite simply, I've been around guns my entire life and am far past being uncomfortable when anybody is carrying, regardless of whether it is family, friend, or complete stranger.
In fact, I've come to regard open carry as less suspicious and potentially hazardous than concealed carry. The only reason I mention it at all to them is because it is my job.
The whole point of my entire diatribe over these two pages has been that in fact, the mere possession of a firearm, open or concealed, but IMO esp open, does not automatically convey evil or malicious intent and that people can not be judged in a free society for the crimes that they might or may potentially commit. And that when we as free citizens hide from the insecurities of the weakest among us, we won't long remain free.
However, I do say you are just being quixotic and naive if you allow yourself to assume that any armed person, openly or otherwise, does not present a potential danger. The difference comes from accepting this as an everyday fact of life and dealing with it without succumbing to "purely emotional reaction with no real basis in factual reality."
NavyLCDR
member
I misunderstood the part of your post that I quoted. But, to those that do see a visible firearm or knife as an increased potential threat, my comment still stands!
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