Quantcast

Any California THR members open carrying?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Kimber45acp, Jan 24, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. lloveless

    lloveless Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    703
    Location:
    Woodbury, Tn
    I just completed a work contract in SoCal. Never saw anyone open carry. According to the police-yes open carry is legal, but be very careful. 1) You will be stopped to ascertain if the gun is loaded. 2)the ammo is to be carried openly also. Any concealed ammo is illegal.
    This right disappears Feb. of 2010. enjoy for a few more days!
    ll
     
  2. Alex23

    Alex23 member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Texas
    Does anyone think open carrying an unloaded weapon makes sense?
     
  3. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Do you think carrying NO weapon makes more sense?

    Seriously. The gun owners in California have found a way around some of the massive restrictions they face.

    It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. Given the choice between something and nothing why in the world would you choose nothing?
     
  4. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    .

    That statement is ABSOLUTELY FALSE.
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Here is the story on the concealed magazines, from one of the CA open carry groups. It is not codified as illegal but.....


    What is the change?
     
  6. lloveless

    lloveless Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    703
    Location:
    Woodbury, Tn
    Double posted
    ll
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2010
  7. lloveless

    lloveless Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    703
    Location:
    Woodbury, Tn
    TexasRifleman Thanks for the clarification. NavyLt go ahead and carry your way-hope it turns out OK for you.
    A law was passed last fall that goes into effect Feb 2010 that does away with open carry in Ca.
    ll
     
  8. cleetus03

    cleetus03 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Spuds, FL
    Well now that any further discussion on the matter is pointless..........

    I'd like to thank NavyLT, TexasRifleman, DocCas, and Werewolf for providing some insight on the benefits (regardless of handicap placed) in the "CA open-carry" law.


    I'm still VERY skeptical in ones ability to draw, load, chamber and fire a pistol before the criminal in question goes directly in fight or flight mode with his already loaded & chambered weapon pointed on you......

    But depending on the circumstances and your training ability anything is possible.

    Not to mention rule #1 of a gunfight is after all to have a gun......
     
  9. Kimber45acp

    Kimber45acp member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Utah
    Where is everybody getting this "Feb 2010" stuff? No one has yet provided a link explaining it, and I went to http://www.californiaopencarry.org/ and found nothing on it. What gives?
     
  10. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    Kimber45acp,

    Not "everybody" is saying Feb. 2010. Only lloveless is and he/she won't be able to post a citation to it.
     
  11. Kimber45acp

    Kimber45acp member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Utah
    So can we definitively say if it's true or not?
     
  12. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    Only lloveless can prove it exists. Nobody but him has found it. Until he tells us where this secret knowledge is, it's fake.
     
  13. yelohamr

    yelohamr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Vista, CA
    He has that confused with Groundhog Day. If the groundhog sees his shadow, you can't open carry for six weeks.

    I live in CA and UOC everyday with no problem. I'm old and retired and like the old saying, "Never pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you". That coulld be why no one bothers me.
     
  14. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,381
    Location:
    CAAZ
    That would be illegal.

    It needs to be in a locked container other than the glove/utility box/compartment.

    http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php

    Basically, CA doesnt want you to be able to grab it while driving.

    Ive asked "What about a truck? Its not "safe" locked up in an open bed!"

    I've been told by more than one officer "locked container behind the seat".
     
  15. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    I'm skeptical of it too, don't misunderstand me. All I'm saying is that if it came down to this or nothing, I'd rather at least have a fighting chance than be a completely disarmed victim.

    As for the Feb '10 thing, I don't honestly know one way or the other but I've searched and searched and I find no references to that particular piece of the California code being changed.
     
  16. yelohamr

    yelohamr Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Vista, CA
    That Feb 2010 business is total crap. If there was anything to it, everyone at www.opencarry.org would be sceaming like violated virgins.

    However there is a law that takes effect in Feb. 2011, in CA, that bans buying ammo over the internet.
     
  17. tack

    tack Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Southern Kalifonia
    To answer the original question, I have UOCed twice, but then again I only started in 2010. I feel safe when with other UO Carriers. I would not feel safe doing it alone since the gun itself is an attractive prize.
     
  18. Librarian

    Librarian Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Concord, CA
    I believe you need to specify exactly which law you have in mind. I make it my business to follow California bills, and I'm not aware of any law in the 2009 session that 'does away with open carry'.

    Now, that's very different from suggesting that unloaded open carry (UOC) is a good idea. Besides the silly responses from some LE agencies, there's this little problem with school zones.

    But a carefully organized event with UOC can be a non-threatening public information occasion, which may - I emphasize may - help to educate the public on gun rights, and if it works that way that would be a Good Thing.
     
  19. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,228
    This is illegal due to current case law interpretation (which is a poor interpretation of the law, but is still the legal precedent) in the Hale case.
    Carrying ammunition concealed is legal. Carrying a loaded magazine concealed is consider carrying a concealed firearm under PC12025. Yet it is not considered carrying a loaded firearm. (PC12031)
    So a magazine can be a firearm when concealed, but a loaded magazine cannot be a loaded firearm.

    California's version of the Gun Free School Zone Act also does not have the case law that makes it almost meaningless like the federal version. This means without meeting one of many exemptions it is a major crime to be carrying a firearm that way when in a school zone. It is almost impossible to drive across a regular size town without crossing through several public and private school zones.


    This is not actually completely accurate. That is one exemption to PC12025. The easiest to prove in court after the fact as well. But there is literally dozens of equally valid exemptions under the law.

    You see keeping the gun in a locked container is not a requirement for transport. It is an exemption to PC12025 which outlaws concealing a firearm. Essentially saying that concealing it in a locked container is not a crime like concealing it in a container would be.
    So that exemption is only required if the firearm is concealed. If it is not concealed it is not a requirement.
    However it is the most advisable way to transport because it is simple.

    Once again meeting one of these exemptions is only required if the firearm is concealed! If unconcealed meeting these exemptions is not even required. These are not the requirements for transport, but the requirements for legally concealing the firearm:

    They law is long so I will bold just some of where it is legal to CONCEAL the firearm:



    Continued Next post..
     
  20. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,228

    Anyone meeting one of the bold exemptions above does not need to have it in a locked container to conceal the unloaded firearm. That is only one exemption per 12026.1 Not at all the only one. (and some of the exemptions allow it to be loaded as well but not most as relevant to what I was responding to.)
    I repeat these exemptions only need to be met to conceal it, not to transport it unconcealed.
    So transport in a locked container is not a "requirement". It is one of many exemptions that make it legal to conceal it while transporting it.

    Just as for example:
    "3) The transportation of a firearm by a participant when going
    directly to, or coming directly from, a recognized safety or hunter
    safety class, or a recognized sporting event involving that firearm."
    Means it can be concealed outside of a locked container and still be immune to PC12025 meeting an exemption.

    Or "5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
    directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or
    private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or
    the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm"
    Means it can be concealed without being in a locked container if you just bought it, or are taking it to be sold, transferred or fixed.

    Or "(7) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
    directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show, swap meet, or
    similar event to which the public is invited, for the purpose of
    displaying that firearm in a lawful manner."
    Going to a gun show means you don't have to lock up your guns to conceal them.

    Or "(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
    directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
    regulatory or business license,"
    Going directly to or from a range with a business license? You can conceal it and don't need it locked up at all.

    Or "(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
    directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for
    the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal
    protection while at the lawful campsite."
    Going camping? You can conceal the unloaded handgun and don't need it to be in a locked container to meet an exemption.
    Etc etc

    So it is actually legal to transport a concealed unloaded handgun outside of a locked container for the majority of places you would take a firearm to use.
    The only thing that really requires a locked container is to conceal the firearm when not going directly to or from such an exempted activity. Like to just store or transport the gun in the vehicle in general when not actually going somewhere to use it.

    Yet none of those exemptions are even required for non concealed firearm.
     
  21. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,228
    Further.

    Means anyone may either open or concealed carry in their home, place of business, camping spot or on their private property.
    They may do so fully loaded, as long as not legally in public (per 12031.)

    So you can open or concealed carry a fully loaded firearm at home, at your business, or on your own private property not meeting the legal definition of "public place" at any time.
    A little research and you can learn exactly what the legal definition of "public place" is under California law, and how to easily have any private property a non "public place" under the law.

    No license or permit required.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2010
  22. thriftyjoe

    thriftyjoe Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Wow, I'm dismayed, there was 2-3+ proclamations of completely incorrect legal advice in this thread!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead:

    Folks, if you didnt check the law and see it for yourself don't share it! please!
     
  23. Sediment

    Sediment Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    358
    Location:
    NoяKal
    Ok so this is for the lawyers here. Keep in mind I intend to speak to my Sheriff's Dept. before engaging in Open Carry.

    Scenario: A short trip to the mall, best buy, In-N-Out burger, Starbucks etc... Am I legally allowed to open carry so long as I am not within 1000 feet of a school. These are not government buildings or sensitive areas, such as an airport or courthouse. I may keep a 1911 on my hip, unloaded, and magazine pouch(s) on the other hip so long as both are fully visible.

    Is this correct? Or have I might have missed something?
     
  24. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,381
    Location:
    CAAZ


    Uh ok. The post I was replying to made NO mention of ANY type action associated with the exemptions you cited. The context of the post I responded to was that he knows people that lay the gun on the car seat and have a mag in their pocket as (at least a somewhat) a common prctice; not just going to and from and exempted place/activity.

    Under that context, my post is accurate. And should have been clear (but maybe it wasnt) that I was not trying to find the wiggle room/loop hole in the law when I said
    Doing what that poster described and relying on the reason of " I was going to/from and shoting range " type defense when a cop sees the gun laying on the seat is not likely to go well at all.

    Additionally, that poster said 'with a mag in their pocket'. If that mag is loaded in their pocket and the gun is laying open on the seat.... I could pretty much bet that person is going to be arrested if discovered by an officer in CA (not rural area).
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2010
  25. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    That's pretty much correct in a nutshell. However, you should read all the info at californiaopencarry.org/ first.

    They recommend that you do NOT do this unless you have the resources to deal with an arrest. The possibility is VERY real that you will be arrested anyway.

    As the saying goes, you may beat the rap but you may not beat the ride.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice