Any considerations needed to make sure a HEAVY gunsafe don't damage the floor?

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Green Lantern

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There are two things I feel like I need at this point to feel like I've 'made it' in the world:

1) My own place to live

2) A *NICE* gun safe to keep in said place to live.

By "nice" I mean fireproof, sturdy, big enough for my guns and other valuables/important stuff...IE, heavy.

I'm guesstimating 400 pounds, minimum. Maybe up to the 1,000 pound range...

At this point, I dunno what sort of home I'll get. The modular home is quite popular around here, and a pretty economic choice. Though, the floor integrity worries me a bit (especially if pushing the 1,000-pound range with a safe...)

I dunno - am I worried for nothing, or are there precautions one needs to take?
 
modular home floor is probably stronger. 400 pounds no big deal 1000 pounds? near a bearing wall or better yet a corner is good
 
I was in your exact situation a few short months ago. The extremely large extremely heavy item that I had alwasy wanted and finally obtained was destined for the far end of the house, across the brand new ceramic tile floor. This was a source of immense concern for me, but even more so for the Significant Other. The large heavy item was brought in on a pallet jack and then golf balls over sheets of plywood. Nary a scuff on the brand new ceramic floor, and I was not evicted by the Significant Other. Whatever it costs you, it is worth the delivery charge.

Having said all of that, I would do some research on the per square foot load limits for a modular home floor. I can visualize that limiting your purchase of said heavy item. Don't forget to factor in hallway and doorframe widths, too.
 
Yeah - apart from it falling through the floor, trying to get it inside and where I want it is also something I don't like to think about...;)

Do they make any "assembly required" safes that are at least somewhat fireproof?

Something else I was considering was maybe a couple of SMALLER safes spread out around the house...
 
I'd be more worried about if overloading the floor structure when it is in place. It may hold just the weight of the safe, but when all your buddys gather around to admire it - look out. Another thing to worry about is fire under a wood floor. It won't need to burn long to drop that thing through the floor. Even if the safe survives the fall intact, everything inside will get a good shaking around.

Spend $100 and have an architect come out and give you a few suggestions. Or at least a decent contractor. If you were around here, I'd run out and look at it myself.
 
Maybe I missed it but where are you building? In MN only short sighted folks don't put a basement under their modular home. They dig it out for foundation blocks 70% (or more) what they would need for full basement. (of course this depends on ground level/other concerns) Most have said the full basement was almost FREE (when figured against loosing room for water heater,well pressure tank,furncace, inaccessible water,heat pipes/ducts. and hauling in material to "fill" the voids. Nowdays they even put rooms under the garage. :) :)
So my thinking is you could have your gun safe (maybe gun room) under garage. Safe on cement floor could weigh a ton.
Myself I bought a floor jack support and put two 2"x12"x @48" Then put jack under that across floor joists. Again safe could weigh a ton.
 
almost all floors in US are built to withstand loadings which are quite a bit higher than a safe will reach, provided the load is equally spread. Setting the safe on two trimmed sheets of 3/4 inch plywood will easily spread the load enough to make 250 PSF loads ok. That means a 36" by 36" safe would have to weigh 2250 pounds to exceed the limit.
 
My safe weighs in at about 600 pounds unloaded ... I put it in a corner to help my concern on bowing the floor etc.

Quick Tip - Make sure you use some matting if you ever try and move it.. my hard wood floors are still mad at me from my first position change.
 
I agree with pete f, if you are that worried about the safe overloading the floor then place some 3/4 inch or thicker plywood under the safe to help distribute the load over a larger area
 
If your that concerned have a pillar/peer installed below the floor where safe's final destination will be. Any weight sitting in one spot long enough will settle the foundation it is on. The home mfg should be able to tell you or be able to tell you how to reinforce the flooring to handle what you need. Furniture dolly's can take the safe from the door to the final resting spot just be sure the wheels are wide enough to spread the weight out more.
 
Pete F said:
almost all floors in US are built to withstand loadings which are quite a bit higher than a safe will reach, provided the load is equally spread. Setting the safe on two trimmed sheets of 3/4 inch plywood will easily spread the load enough to make 250 PSF loads ok. That means a 36" by 36" safe would have to weigh 2250 pounds to exceed the limit.
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No, they are NOT designed for loading higher than a good gun safe would reach.

Homes in the U.S. are designed according to the International Residential Code. I think every state and city except NYC has now adopted this code, either the 2003 or the 2006 edition. With regard to floor loads, the numbers have not changed in many, many years. Main rooms and corridors of houses are designed for 40 pounds-per-square-foot, and sleeping rooms are designed for 30 pounds-per-square-foot. That's a uniform load, and it assumes that any loads on the floor will be more or less uniformly distributed. When dealing with furniture and people, that generally works out.

It does NOT work out when dealing with specific, very heavy items. Water beds were a horrendous problem when they were popular. If they didn't cause outright collapses, they caused innumerable problems with ceilings in the rooms under them cracking and floors sagging.

A decent fire-rated gun safe will weigh 400 to 600 pounds empty. Load it up with a bunch of guns, and maye a bit of ammo, and you can easily be approaching a ton of concentrated weight. If the safe is (just for argument, to use round numbers) 3 feet wide and 2 feet deep, that's 2,000 pounds on 6 square feet, or 333 pounds-per-square-foot on a fairly limited area. There is no house (or office) floor in the United States that's designed to support that, unless it's a slab-on-ground. Even putting it in a corner or against a wall that has a beam under it won't stop the floor from sagging. A load like that needs to have supplemental beams and column jacks under it. The alternative would be to use deeper than normal floor joists, and space them closer together than the usual 16" or 24" on center.
 
another possilility you might consider with going with the modular home ( my parents have one, better than stick built) is that you can have them custom reenforce one room at the factory to handle the load, and you don't have to worry about size of the safe, you can jus have it put it the before they put it all together.

say that the house is coming in 4 parts, you hae them put the part for the safe in first, then bring the safe in thru one of the large opening, then finish putting the house together, or have it put down in the basement even before the house is put on. granted that way you won't be able to get it out once the house is put together.
 
I didnt read all posts and someone may have suggested this already.

If on a crawl just go below and put some bridging in and a floor jack to the rafter nearby would support the safe and contents and all the admirers.
 
where do all of you keep your safes?
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Our 575 pound Winchester safe ,about 1200 pounds now almost fully loaded, sits on laminated wood underneath of which is a poured concrete slab.
Like most South Florida homes ours is one story with no basement.
This makes for a very firm non-buckling foundation,at least up to our maxium weight need of about 1500 lbs.
See Aguila Blanca's very informative post.
 
Green Lantern;

So far, all the discussion has not actually been about safes. It's been about RSC's or Residential Security Containers. RSC is a nice term U.L. coined for a test procedure on sheet metal construction containers.

To be rated as a safe, the minimum construction is one quarter inch plate steel on all six sides. I sell safes, not RSC's.

I'd suggest you make an honest assessment of your fire and burglary threat levels at your new home. Then, determine what you need to purchase to provide the protection you've decided you want.

My opinion of RSC's is not high at all. The fire protection most offer is predicated on testing procedures they don't publish. The burglary protection offered by sheet metal construction is pathetic IMHO.

Your nickel, your choice. But please, make an informed choice. Decals, mirrors, etc., don't give protection. Plate steel & concrete do.

900F
 
900f is right.
You can stop at any pawn shop and get the tools needed to unzip a sheet metal "safe". Go all out and buy a real safe.

Rero360 nailed it. You can have a modular custom built with a heavier floor in one or many rooms to accommodate for the extra stresses presented by pianos, safes, the morbidly obese, etc. And, you can have it craned in as the house is being assembled.
 
My opinion of RSC's is not high at all. The fire protection most offer is predicated on testing procedures they don't publish. The burglary protection offered by sheet metal construction is pathetic IMHO.
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What a wet blanket!I was feeling so good until now.
The neighbor that breaks in the conversation just when you're about to close the sale.(Just kidding CB900F,don't report me.) Now wheelgunslinger adds to my confusion!
Que Sera Sera.
 
I know of an incident where the homeowner had a nice house and a real nice gun collection and a big heavy fire-resistant safe. He had a fire over the holidays when they were gone. The safe spared the guns from the fire but the floor collapsed and the safe ended up on its side in the basement in about 1.5 feet of water and muck that then froze up in the subzero temps.
2 or 3 days later when they got the safe out and open the guns weren't very pretty.
I supported the floor joists under my safe with a boxed frame of welded steel I-beam and support posts. If my house burns to the ground I expect to see the chimney and the safe still standing.
 
CB900F: what are some good companies that sell actual safes? I have a 400 pound sentrysafe that I'm happy with for the moment (living in an apartment) but once I buy my own house then i'll be looking at getting the real deal
 
Modular homes can sometimes have the floor structure reinforced during construction, usually in conjuction with a pier added at that location to handle the extra load.

If you have an existing home you may be able to retrofit it.

Brad
 
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