The Swede
Member
This weekend I want to pick up either a PTR91 or a STG58 FAL. I have found lots of positive info on the STG58, however I have found some but not much info on the PTR91. Which would you consider a better choice?
Any experience with the PTR91?
- Thread starter The Swede
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I don't think there's a clear winner between these two. both are good quality builds.
the PTR is probably (inherently) more accurate, the FAL is much easier to clean. FAL mags are $8 each, PTR mags $2 each. The PTR is probably less ammo sensitive, but may (?) wear out of tolerance quicker (in oh, say 20,000 rounds?).
either way, you are doing well. try to find a chance to handle them both, see which "fits" you better.
the PTR is probably (inherently) more accurate, the FAL is much easier to clean. FAL mags are $8 each, PTR mags $2 each. The PTR is probably less ammo sensitive, but may (?) wear out of tolerance quicker (in oh, say 20,000 rounds?).
either way, you are doing well. try to find a chance to handle them both, see which "fits" you better.
IronSightRot671
Member
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- Dec 1, 2006
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- 221
http://www.ptr91.com/
"Still located in Farmington Connecticut, the new company has expanded production capability of the PTR 91 line of rifles. The PTR 91 was developed with the tooling from the H&K licensed G3 arms plant in Portugal, and retains the major design features of this well engineered popular rifle. With most major parts manufactured in the US, the current rifle models feature a retarded-blow back system, .75” dia. Match grade, 4 groove barrel with 1:12” right twist, all black furniture and powder coated barrel. The PTR 91 rifle is now available with either an 18” or 16” barrel and several stock types, and new models are currently being developed. This rifle complies with all 922 US regulations. We have gone to great lengths to produce the most up-to-date rifle on the market today."
Had mine for over 3yrs. I have the ptr91kp Model. My opinion, Its well worth the money.. As for the STG58 FAL, I have no experience with it. some happy owner of one will chime in soon.
"Still located in Farmington Connecticut, the new company has expanded production capability of the PTR 91 line of rifles. The PTR 91 was developed with the tooling from the H&K licensed G3 arms plant in Portugal, and retains the major design features of this well engineered popular rifle. With most major parts manufactured in the US, the current rifle models feature a retarded-blow back system, .75” dia. Match grade, 4 groove barrel with 1:12” right twist, all black furniture and powder coated barrel. The PTR 91 rifle is now available with either an 18” or 16” barrel and several stock types, and new models are currently being developed. This rifle complies with all 922 US regulations. We have gone to great lengths to produce the most up-to-date rifle on the market today."
Had mine for over 3yrs. I have the ptr91kp Model. My opinion, Its well worth the money.. As for the STG58 FAL, I have no experience with it. some happy owner of one will chime in soon.
stubbicatt
Member
Get the PTR91. It is a better rifle, accepts optics better, and is more accurate. It handles heat better. It is just a better rifle.
The Swede
Member
Thanks for the replies. I'm just a little leery of knockoffs sometimes, though I did read a review saying it was actually a better rifle than the H&K. I think I'll get the PTR91.
Destructo6
Member
I don't know if "knock-off" is quite the right term for the PTRs.
They purchased Portugal's (FMP) licensed HK tooling a few years ago when Portugal decided to switch from G3s to G36s. They're about as authentic as the Greek SAR-3s from a while back.
I have one of FMPs last series of receivers that was imported back in 1998 or so. It's very nice and probably exactly like the one on that PTR.
They purchased Portugal's (FMP) licensed HK tooling a few years ago when Portugal decided to switch from G3s to G36s. They're about as authentic as the Greek SAR-3s from a while back.
I have one of FMPs last series of receivers that was imported back in 1998 or so. It's very nice and probably exactly like the one on that PTR.
B-Square mount
http://andean-inc.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TAOS&Product_Code=BSQ18513&Category_Code=heckler_koch_ssrm
You can get these for less if you look around.
http://andean-inc.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TAOS&Product_Code=BSQ18513&Category_Code=heckler_koch_ssrm
You can get these for less if you look around.
Mumbles_45
Member
I completely disagree. With the DSA mounts available I think the FAL accepts optics way better than the PTR. The PTR can be more accurate, but thats it's only strength.
The PTR is made of stamped steel, has no last shot bolt hold open, the safety is out of reach for most without changing your grip, the magazine release is probably one of the least conveniently placed that I know of, the charging handle is heavy and also inconveniently placed, they have the worst triggers ever (but that can be fixed for around $70). Optics mouting options are a claw mount which puts the scope very high over the bore, or low profile mounts which just don't seem sturdy (maybe superstition on my part). The PTR also seemed to be the hardest recoiling and had the most muzzle climb of any autoloading .308 I've handled (but I realize that is mostly subjective). And it waffles, dents and hurls brass like no other (at least it hurls it all in the same direction, unlike the Mini-14)
The STG58 is forged, has last shot bolt hold open, the safety is every bit as easy to reach as on an AR15, as is the magazine release. The charging handle is possibly the most conveniently placed on any autoloader I've used (I realize that is just opinion) the trigger is nothing special but worlds better than the PTR, DSA makes great mounts for optics, and the adjustable gas system lets you reliably use a wider variety of ammo (especially very light loads which may not cycle in other battle rifles, not something I have experience with, I just shoot 150 gr. surplus, but there was an article I read a while back about how the FAL was much more reliable with 110 gr rounds than other autoloaders due to the adjustable gas system) and it lets you tune the rifle to the ammo to reduce recoil and reduce wear on the rifle.
I had a PTR for a while, tried very hard to like it, decided I would always hate it and sold it for a beater of a FAL and a small profit, and am much happier than I ever was with the PTR.
Yeah, I don't know how anyone can state that the HK clone will handle different loads better than a FAL. The whole purpose of the gas regulation system of the FAL is to allow use of ANY 7.62x51 or .308 ammo you can FIND. Gotta plug the FAL.
This will make it even more interesting:
Entreprise Arms Standard - $899 from Entreprise
JLD PTR-91 - $899 @ CDNN
Yes....decisions, decisions!
This will make it even more interesting:
Entreprise Arms Standard - $899 from Entreprise
JLD PTR-91 - $899 @ CDNN
Yes....decisions, decisions!
alaskanativeson
Member
As a new owner of an FAL and a previous owner of a genuine HK91 I can assure you that you won't really be disappointed by either rifle. I bought my 91 before the first AWB for well below $1k and sold it when things got financially tight for $2500. If I hadn't needed the money then I would have kept it and I'd still be pleased with it. The diopter sights are by far the best open sights I've used on a rifle.
I decided to go with an FAL because I've always admired them and had many friends tell me how great they are. They were right. I own a DSA now and I have another on custom order (camo, folding stock, DSA extreme mount.) I liked the DSA enough over the 91 that I ordered another FAL rather than a PTR-91. I have to agree that if it's .308 caliber it's going to work in an FAL. To get a more reliable weapon you pretty much have to go with an AK which I didn't want to do. The PTR will chew up brass more if you want to reload unless you add a buffer. My 91 brass was too damaged to reload with unless I really wanted to put in a lot of effort.
Accuracy with either will be what you need out of a rifle. I'm not as accurate with the FAL as I was with the 91 but that's completely because of those great diopter sights. I plan to scope my FAL and I'm sure I'll be shooting better than I was with the 91.
As has been said, you won't go wrong. I have to agree with the thought that before you plunk down any money go to a gunstore and handle both.
I decided to go with an FAL because I've always admired them and had many friends tell me how great they are. They were right. I own a DSA now and I have another on custom order (camo, folding stock, DSA extreme mount.) I liked the DSA enough over the 91 that I ordered another FAL rather than a PTR-91. I have to agree that if it's .308 caliber it's going to work in an FAL. To get a more reliable weapon you pretty much have to go with an AK which I didn't want to do. The PTR will chew up brass more if you want to reload unless you add a buffer. My 91 brass was too damaged to reload with unless I really wanted to put in a lot of effort.
Accuracy with either will be what you need out of a rifle. I'm not as accurate with the FAL as I was with the 91 but that's completely because of those great diopter sights. I plan to scope my FAL and I'm sure I'll be shooting better than I was with the 91.
As has been said, you won't go wrong. I have to agree with the thought that before you plunk down any money go to a gunstore and handle both.
Yep but the hk system does not need adjustment... if you get a slightly under or overpowered round it would be more likely to fire and eject without tying up the system as with a fal
I have a PTR and I like it so far but I have not run her as much as I want to...
I would be happy with an FAL also though and really wish I had a few.
I had always wanted an hk91 but never got one when they were cheap and when the cheap mags came and the PTR was available I grabbed it. I have plenty of mags... To replace the mags I have for the PTR for a FAL I would have to pay the cost of my PTR
HK G3
Member
I've handled PTR 91s before...
The internals are all HK stamped. It's basically a G3 assembled in America, with the potential for full-auto conversion prohibited, and a potentially more accurate/equally accurate barrel added on.
It's accurate and reliable rifle. You really can't go wrong with it.
Then again, I'm rather biased towards G3-variants
The internals are all HK stamped. It's basically a G3 assembled in America, with the potential for full-auto conversion prohibited, and a potentially more accurate/equally accurate barrel added on.
It's accurate and reliable rifle. You really can't go wrong with it.
Then again, I'm rather biased towards G3-variants
iamkris
Member
Swede
I own both a PTR91 and a bunch of FALs. I live up in Libertyville...about an hour and 15 minutes from you...if you will buy the ammo, I'd be happy to let you shoot both (and an M1A if it is of interest) to help you make a decision.
If you do a search, this topic comes up pretty often...there is a lot of info on the PTR here. In general, the PTR is a GREAT repro of the HK. The issue in my mind is that the HK G3 pattern rifle is very dated...the ergonomics are horrible, the triggers are terrible, the controls are in odd locations and the recoil is more harsh than it needs to be.
I'd highly recommend shooting them before you buy.
See my post here for pictures of comparisons of the rifles
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289742&highlight=sa58+para
I own both a PTR91 and a bunch of FALs. I live up in Libertyville...about an hour and 15 minutes from you...if you will buy the ammo, I'd be happy to let you shoot both (and an M1A if it is of interest) to help you make a decision.
If you do a search, this topic comes up pretty often...there is a lot of info on the PTR here. In general, the PTR is a GREAT repro of the HK. The issue in my mind is that the HK G3 pattern rifle is very dated...the ergonomics are horrible, the triggers are terrible, the controls are in odd locations and the recoil is more harsh than it needs to be.
I'd highly recommend shooting them before you buy.
See my post here for pictures of comparisons of the rifles
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289742&highlight=sa58+para
iamkris, I have to agree with your assessment of the G3 type rifles but one must also put the design into perspective.
When you consider an HK91/G3 type rifle as a full power varient on the AKM rifle theme it makes more sense.
Add good guality optics to a PTR-91 and it is just as accurate, just as reliable, and far less expensive than a genuine Com-Bloc Dragunov sniper rifle.
The PTR is way, way, above the Romanian Sniper rifle varients now offered at attractive prices too.
Is a PTR rifle on par with a well made FN-FAL or M14 varient, no, not even close.
However, The Swede did say he was considering either a PTR or a StG FAL varient.
When comparing those two rifles it would be a real toss up as to which one he might actually prefer and it is quite generous of you to offer a shooting comparison of the rifles in question.
I personally no longer own an FAL varient but I do own several M1A type rifles and a PTR-91
Then again I also own a Russian Saiga in .308 too.
When you consider an HK91/G3 type rifle as a full power varient on the AKM rifle theme it makes more sense.
Add good guality optics to a PTR-91 and it is just as accurate, just as reliable, and far less expensive than a genuine Com-Bloc Dragunov sniper rifle.
The PTR is way, way, above the Romanian Sniper rifle varients now offered at attractive prices too.
Is a PTR rifle on par with a well made FN-FAL or M14 varient, no, not even close.
However, The Swede did say he was considering either a PTR or a StG FAL varient.
When comparing those two rifles it would be a real toss up as to which one he might actually prefer and it is quite generous of you to offer a shooting comparison of the rifles in question.
I personally no longer own an FAL varient but I do own several M1A type rifles and a PTR-91
Then again I also own a Russian Saiga in .308 too.
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