Reliability? I hear that a GOOD flinter will be almost as reliable and quick to fire as a caplock. I have a Lyman great plains flinter I got long ago but only shot once... and am open to buying a new lock or even a new gun to achieve consistent yet trouble free results.
Any Flintlock rifle Guru's here? What are some of the best Flinters to start with for
- Thread starter tallpaul
- Start date
- Status
Curator
Member
There's nothing really WRONG with the Lyman Great Plains rifle but the coil-spring lock does leave something to be desired. Several flintlock enthusiasts I know have replaced the Lyman lock with a L&R to get more reliable/faster ignition. This is not a "drop-in" situation as some inletting is required. The L&R replacement locks seem faster and more reliable, but this is not scientifically proven. For sure, flints last longer with the L&R locks.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 22,538
For a starter gun, the Lyman Great Plains is good. I don't really care for any of the other made in Europe or India flintlocks.
When it comes to long rifles, I prefer something made here and would turn to a gun builder. Take a class yourself. The NMLRA offers classes as does Conner Prairie. Brent Gurtek does too (he was my classmate at one Conner Prairie class).
When it comes to long rifles, I prefer something made here and would turn to a gun builder. Take a class yourself. The NMLRA offers classes as does Conner Prairie. Brent Gurtek does too (he was my classmate at one Conner Prairie class).
Patocazador
Member
Good reliable flintlocks depend on getting a quality lock. An off-the-shelf gun will generally have a relatively inexpensive lock. A Chambers Siler lock alone costs ~ $145. In a flinter you get what you pay for .. generally.
As already stated, a custom gun builder will be where you can get a reliable accurate flintlock. However, you better have at least a grand to get one from a quality builder.
As already stated, a custom gun builder will be where you can get a reliable accurate flintlock. However, you better have at least a grand to get one from a quality builder.
BCRider
Member
I've been running a Lyman GPR flinter for about 3 years now. On the whole it works pretty well if I'm running a good flint on it. I tend to get around 20 to 25 shots where it goes off with good consistency before it becomes less reliable and I have to edge knap the flint so I can carry on. During the first 8 to 10 shots on a good flint I almost always get consistent first pull ignition. From 8 to around 16 shots taken I'll get one or maybe two that do not ignite the pan. The second pull almost always works. From 16 on the flint is losing the edge and I start to move down to one failure to ignite the pan out of 3 to 4 shots and start finding that it can take a couple of re-cockings to ignite the pan charge. That's about where the frustration forces me to pause and edge knap the flint. Then it's fine for the rest of the trail walk we have at my club.
A badly shaped flint can really ruin all this though. I've had the odd flint that I tossed because it simply would require a full on edge re-shaping to get a good contact line and a good spark shower.
I never really saw all this as being an issue with the lock's coil spring. I saw it more as a flint issue. And perhaps the frizzen not being left hard enough to produce a really good spark shower.
Reliability and consistency also relies somewhat on our loading and cleaning practices. I wipe down the pan, frizzen and flint after ever two shots to ensure that fouling doesn't interfere with the sparking and powder ignition. I also have a touch hole wire hung from the trigger guard on a light leather lanyard that is used for every load to ensure the hole isn't blocked.
FOR THE COST I still consider my Lyman to be a good option. A built up flinter from TOTW and other similar companies will cost far more. Even the "kit" will cost far more than the Lyman or Traditions and you still need to build it or send it off to a builder. And that costs in terms of time or money.
One brand I heartily recommend you avoid is the Armi Sport line made by Chiappa. My first flinter is from them and it's a complete disaster. The lock is made without any sort of bridle and the hammer sear drum and shaft is so poorly made that the trigger sear ALWAYS catches the half cock hook which sticks out farther than the full cock hook. On top of that the side pin off the mainspring was ground down far too much and it snapped off. It was a complete waste of money that now requires that I either buy and fit a new lock or turn it into a wall hanger.
A badly shaped flint can really ruin all this though. I've had the odd flint that I tossed because it simply would require a full on edge re-shaping to get a good contact line and a good spark shower.
I never really saw all this as being an issue with the lock's coil spring. I saw it more as a flint issue. And perhaps the frizzen not being left hard enough to produce a really good spark shower.
Reliability and consistency also relies somewhat on our loading and cleaning practices. I wipe down the pan, frizzen and flint after ever two shots to ensure that fouling doesn't interfere with the sparking and powder ignition. I also have a touch hole wire hung from the trigger guard on a light leather lanyard that is used for every load to ensure the hole isn't blocked.
FOR THE COST I still consider my Lyman to be a good option. A built up flinter from TOTW and other similar companies will cost far more. Even the "kit" will cost far more than the Lyman or Traditions and you still need to build it or send it off to a builder. And that costs in terms of time or money.
One brand I heartily recommend you avoid is the Armi Sport line made by Chiappa. My first flinter is from them and it's a complete disaster. The lock is made without any sort of bridle and the hammer sear drum and shaft is so poorly made that the trigger sear ALWAYS catches the half cock hook which sticks out farther than the full cock hook. On top of that the side pin off the mainspring was ground down far too much and it snapped off. It was a complete waste of money that now requires that I either buy and fit a new lock or turn it into a wall hanger.
Budget is a nill point.... I want(ed) to know where the starting point of reliable flinting is... it does not matter where that cost is- it is what it is... I think I will try a L&R replacement lock to put on the Lyman... then I think I will build... I am learning geometry heat treat etc... all have an effect on reliability
the only thing I do know is handicapping myself with substandard gear is no way t even try playing this game!
the only thing I do know is handicapping myself with substandard gear is no way t even try playing this game!
BCRider
Member
Fair enough. And I fully agree on the idea of not hamstringing oneself with substandard gear.
Oldnamvet, given my description of how my day goes with the Lyman would you, or anyone else that cares to comment, consider my experience to be poorer than I would have with something like an L&R lock?
Oldnamvet, given my description of how my day goes with the Lyman would you, or anyone else that cares to comment, consider my experience to be poorer than I would have with something like an L&R lock?
Budget is a nill point.... I want(ed) to know where the starting point of reliable flinting is..."
Budget is the starting point!!
Define reliable, some folks are happy if the rifle goes off, some are happy if it goes off half the time and others expect it to go off 100 percent of the time.
If you buy a Lyman and have to change out the lock with an L&R, change the triggers to Davis and replace the vent liner which most folks have to do to reliable ignition, you could have bought a reliable flintlock for $1,000 to $1,500.
Spending more gets you more and a lot less tinkering.
Budget is the starting point!!
Define reliable, some folks are happy if the rifle goes off, some are happy if it goes off half the time and others expect it to go off 100 percent of the time.
If you buy a Lyman and have to change out the lock with an L&R, change the triggers to Davis and replace the vent liner which most folks have to do to reliable ignition, you could have bought a reliable flintlock for $1,000 to $1,500.
Spending more gets you more and a lot less tinkering.
I understand all this but still budget is not the question- as far as the GPR I bought it used n a whim years ago thinking it would be good to own a flinter but was into caplocks. If it can be made more reliable with a 150.00 lock- and a relatively inexpensive liner and even a new trigger it would be worth a shot... if not, if its another GPR to modify or a 12-1500 dollar gun so be it... I had heard almost 100 percent reliability and great performance was achievable...
I understand so many have a budget for guns- that really was/is not the question here. I want/wanted to know where easy and reliable performance starts in flintlocks and that has nothing to do with budget- it is what it is... now if it is beyond my budget it may not happen... I have been in the gun rodeo long enough to know if ya are gonna play the game cheap is not always an option!
Crawdad1
Member
Here's some good quality flinters from some 'Best' builders;
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/487/1
And here, the sky is the limit with these guys;
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/07/lehigh-styled-rifle-by-tom-curran.html
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/487/1
And here, the sky is the limit with these guys;
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/07/lehigh-styled-rifle-by-tom-curran.html
jgh4445
Member
Reliability is the key. For me, that means it goes bang 100% of the time. If I do my part in keeping the flint sharp and properly distanced from the frizzen, if the priming powder is the right granulation and position in the pan, if the vent is clear, if the charge is properly positioned in the breech, then there is no reason for it not to fire OTHER than poor lock geometry. Get a good lock, make sure the the vent is positioned properly in relation to the pan, do all of the other stuff above and you should have no problems no matter who made the rifle.
EljaySL
Member
re: budget - seems like once you get to a thousand dollars the options really start opening up. There's a bunch of Pedersoli models that are very reliable but maybe will be eating your flints fast (heavy springs) and you start getting some of the plain but reliable customs or semi-customs around that point.
desidog
Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2008
- Messages
- 2,595
Wow. Those prices are higher than a cat's behind. Are lightly used GPR's really going for $5-600? If so, time to sell my lefty flinter to fund newer projects...
ETA: Just went over to gunbroker and they have some new ones for $3-400...
Last edited:
BCRider
Member
I seriously doubt that ANY flintlock is a 100% proposition. I've seen some of my fellow shooters with some very nicely built rifles and muskets that still get an occasional flash in the pan or failure to ignite the pan during the 30 shot trail walk shoot that my club holds. And I've seen these same folks suffer with a few failures to ignite before they get the message and knap their flints or change out the flints.
My own GPR is not as reliable as some of these folks with their TOTW or other specialty rifles. But I chalked that up to my own lack of experience in setting up the flint and in the type of flint I use. And certainly when things were right I would get a good 10 to 15 perfect ignitions in a row before the edge starts going. Which wasn't that far behind those with the fancy name locks. And again I'm not so sure it isn't due to my lack of experience and knowledge.
Certainly the hints I've gotten from the others have helped a LOT. I'm rapidly getting closer to the reliability levels of those others that have the fancy "brand name" locks.
But 100% out of a flint lock? Or even close to it? if that is a requirement you may as well stick with a cap lock. I'd say that a GOOD rifle with a GOOD flint will give you 100% more often than not for the first 15 to 20 shots if loaded and cleaned between shots with care. But from that point on the flint will be getting dull and the likelihood of a failure to ignite becomes higher within the next few shots.
At least that has been my experience and my observation from watching the others with various flintlocks during the events I've been at.
My own GPR is not as reliable as some of these folks with their TOTW or other specialty rifles. But I chalked that up to my own lack of experience in setting up the flint and in the type of flint I use. And certainly when things were right I would get a good 10 to 15 perfect ignitions in a row before the edge starts going. Which wasn't that far behind those with the fancy name locks. And again I'm not so sure it isn't due to my lack of experience and knowledge.
Certainly the hints I've gotten from the others have helped a LOT. I'm rapidly getting closer to the reliability levels of those others that have the fancy "brand name" locks.
But 100% out of a flint lock? Or even close to it? if that is a requirement you may as well stick with a cap lock. I'd say that a GOOD rifle with a GOOD flint will give you 100% more often than not for the first 15 to 20 shots if loaded and cleaned between shots with care. But from that point on the flint will be getting dull and the likelihood of a failure to ignite becomes higher within the next few shots.
At least that has been my experience and my observation from watching the others with various flintlocks during the events I've been at.
rodinal220
Member
After you are spoiled by a good flinter you will never want to go back to rack grade again.
Take one,two,three of Jim Chambers rifle building classes.
http://www.flintlocks.com/
Take one,two,three
of Jim Chambers rifle building classes.http://www.flintlocks.com/
savagelover
Member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2012
- Messages
- 593
the one you have is the best there is..It is a wonder rifle.
EljaySL
Member
Well, I'd say part of the deal is that you need to keep an eye on the flint and touch it up occasionally. Just as a for instance at the range I let my Bess go until I get a failure (15 shots maybe) and then I clean the pan a bit (since that can cause problems) and I examine the flint and knap the edge, tighten it, or change it out as seems wise. If it was really important to me that it went bang every time I'd do that more proactively, just like I check that stuff when I pack up for the range in the first place.
loose noose
Member
I've got the Lyman GPR, which I built from a kit. I've got some where in the neighborhood of 500 rounds thru it, and about 10-12 flints (English) already knapped. So far I've had less than 10 flash in the pans. I do keep the flints properly knapped, and the flash hole open using a the quill of a feather. The wood I got on mine was really good quality for a kit. The only thing I had to replace was the frizzen spring, as it broke while my grandson and I were shooting it around Christmas. Other than that, I would highly recommend this flintlock to any one that is contemplating getting into that phase of BP. Note it is definitely BP and I doubt seriously that the substitutes will work. Further I clean all my BP arms with equal parts of Murphy's Soap Oil, Hydrogen Peroxide, and rubbing alcohol.
Crawdad1
Member
I agree desidog and you can definitely find better prices on the GPRs but they carry some great custom builds I guess it all in what you want.
Loyalist Dave
Member
You should also look at the Cabela's Blue Ridge Hunter in .54 made by Pedersoli, and use a patched-round-ball. The lock functions very well. Sometimes they need a bit of polishing on the lands of the barrel with some 4-0 steel wool as they can be sharp and cut patches. The breech is also a patent breech (has a small chamber in the breech plug) and some folks have trouble keeping that clean, but judicious use of a .22 brush from time to time at the breech will fix that. Mine was a real shooter in .50, and the only reason I got rid of it was I wanted a more cosmetically historic looking rifle... otherwise they are very good.
LD
LD
SleazyRider
Member
Thanks for the link, Rodinal. I perused the site and, though I see no classes mentioned, those Jim Chambers flintlock rifle kits look very enticing. Has anybody here at THR ever built one? If so, I'd love to hear their impressions.After you are spoiled by a good flinter you will never want to go back to rack grade again.
Take one,two,three
http://www.flintlocks.com/
rodinal220
Member
Sleazy,Jim hasn't updated his web page in two years as far as calender stuff.Call them or check on American Long Rifle forum. The "kits" are excellent,they are really a collection of parts that need a lot of fitting.Jim supplies a lot places like TOTW with parts. His "kits" are based on real firearms from the period.They are well worth the money.
Take your time,my first J.C "kit" took me 90 hours to finish,take your time,walk away when tired or frustrated,come back with a clear head.Its a labor of love.
Conner Prairie used to have rifle building classes but I do not see any currently.
http://www.americanlongrifles.org/forum/
http://www.connerprairie.org/Learn-And-Do/Programs/Arts-and-Arms-Making-Workshop.aspx
Take your time,my first J.C "kit" took me 90 hours to finish,take your time,walk away when tired or frustrated,come back with a clear head.Its a labor of love.
Conner Prairie used to have rifle building classes but I do not see any currently.
http://www.americanlongrifles.org/forum/
http://www.connerprairie.org/Learn-And-Do/Programs/Arts-and-Arms-Making-Workshop.aspx
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
